insuring a plentiful ammo supply for the future

[Walkalong]

Gun ownership and pro-gun legislation is already on the rise. Its a good thing

I agree.

I get tired of hearing the politics all the time. That's just me.

So you are tired of hearing it suggested we vote out anti gun politicians? I must be confused here.

 

[Spike89]

Just got my taxes back....so I am buying as much as possible at one time. Six boxes here one week, then repeat process over and over. I need to learn how to reload, I have lots of equipment, that was willed to my father. All is in good working condition as he uses it often and cares for it well. I think ill be set. Guns; 1911 Colt 45, Marlin 795 22lr, .410, O&U 16gauge, 1 S&W Sigma 9mm, Ruger 44 Blackhawk. Mostly my dads but still there if needed.

 

[Jumping Frog]

For those who are budget constrained, why do you shoot centerfire at all, let alone create dead money by storing costly ammunition?

CF guns and ammunition both are very expensive. If you must shoot on short money, .22 guns and ammo are cheap and plentiful by comparison, and sport centerfire shooting seems a luxury to be indulged only when all other needs for money have been met.

Well, since I cast my own bullets and reload, I actually shoot centerfire for far less money than .22LR costs.

My current cost for .45 ACP is about $1.82 per hundred, or $9.10 per 500. That is far less than .22 LR currently costs.

Also, by shooting centerfire, I am constantly practicing with the calibers I carry for self defense.

(Don't get me wrong, I also shoot a lot of .22 LR because it is fun, but not because it is cheaper.)

It's silly to have all the components you need to load ammo still sitting around as components. Load it up !

I've got a good stash of lead ingots. If I cast them all into bullets and reloaded them, then I lose flexibility.

I also keep a pretty good stash of leaded ammo. Enough to supply about a year's worth of normal shooting. But I can't tell you now what caliber I am going to want to shoot the most next year, so it provides flexibility to keep it as lead. Then I can adjust what calibers I am loading to match the calibers that I am shooting.

 

[evan price]

Did I read where someone was hoarding wheel weights? Really?

Yep, that's one of the things I'm hoarding.
Here's why:

Wheel weights are a great source of antimonious lead which is great for cast pistol bullets.

California banned lead wheel weights effective this year.

Car makers are eliminating lead weights, because why bother stocking two part numbers and tracking to make sure they don't put lead on cars going to California.

Large tire shops are eliminating lead weights, for the very same reasons.

Suppliers are eliminating carrying lead weights, because many customers are not wanting them anymore (thanks to California).

I forsee very soon that the lead weight ban from California will spread eventually to the whole USA, either by legislation, or by the fact that the industry will move away from them because of California.

A few years ago, a bucket of used weights was 99% lead.

Nowadays, I get a higher and higher percentage of iron, plastic, and zinc weights.

Most of the large tire shops, big chain stores, etc. no longer allow their used weights to be sold to the public- they are under contract to send their used weights back with the vendor who handles their batteries (Johnson Controls, Exide, Interstate, etc). The battery companies are doing this to help get more lead for their operations at a cheap price. The big chain stores do this so that their lead gets disposed of in an "environmentally friendly" way.

Don't think that anti-gun folks don't know what we do with wheel weights...

Lead wheel weights, stored in 5-gallon lidded buckets, can be kept anywhere without fear of degrading.

I would rather buy a few thousand pounds NOW at ten cents a pound, then in 5 years, can't find ANY, and have to buy foundry ingots for $3 a pound.

The price of recycled lead and used weights has trended steadily up for the past year or two. I don't see myself losing any money by stocking up now while they can still be found, and for a reasonable price.

Ingotized wheel weight lead is fetching $1 a pound plus freight on ebay every day. Linotype and print metal is getting over $1.50 a pound.

Buy cheap, stack deep.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Enough. Where can you possibly reload 45 Auto or any other cartridge for less than primers cost? Yes, you can reload very inexpensively IF you scrounge lead and brass AND cast your own. But you still have to buy lube. You still have to amortize your equipment. You still have to pay for primers and powder. Even 3 grains of Bullseye costs you a penny. And unless I'm mistaken, and very badly at that, primers certainly cost well in excess of a penny.
Even considering the prices I paid for components way back when, my 9MM reloads are costing about 5 cents apiece.
And if in fact you can reload a box of 45 Auto for 91 cents, you are obligated to demonstrate for us all, how.

 

[FROGO207]

Pretty much all the above when related to reloading/stockpiling the parts of a shell that have to be purchased. Try to keep an assortment of primers that I can use to load up any low in stock ammo.

 

[David E]

My current cost for .45 ACP is about $1.82 per hundred,

This jumped out at me, too.

Current primer cost is $30-$35 per 1000 plus tax, so 3.5 - 4 cents each.

10 years ago, primers were 1.5 cents each, so if you bought them then, ok......but I hope you bought powder then, too.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Well... Can I brag on my costs for reloading .308? I still have primers that I paid ($90 a thousand) $90 for 10,000. I still have bullets(pulls) that cost $30 a thousand. I still have powder that cost $5 a pound. So, to all you guys that don't have the foresight to acquire components from 25 years ago, I reload my .308 for 7 cents apiece. Silly you.

 

[BeerSleeper]

I still have primers that I paid $90 a thousand. I still have bullets(pulls) that cost $30 a thousand.

I reload my .308 for 7 cents apiece.

Not with $90/1K primers you don't. That's 9 cents each, just for the primer.

 

[huntsman]

I still have primers that I paid $90 a thousand. I still have bullets(pulls) that cost $30 a thousand. I still have powder that cost $5 a pound. So, to all you guys that don't have the foresight to acquire components from 25 years ago, I reload my .308 for 7 cents apiece. Silly you.

I think those who bought when prices were low are wise and if you bought enough or don't shoot it all then the current costs mean nothing.

For those just getting into shooting or reloading the decision on when to buy now is a tuff one.

I quit buying about 05 when things started to get crazy, here we are five years latter and things are crazier and I started buying again because a gun without ammo is worthless.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Oops! That would be $90 for 10,000 primers. No HazMat fee in those days either. I was buying .223 brass for $10 a thousand, Winchester 55 FMJ's for $25 a thousand and surplus WC846 @$40 an 8lb. jug. I was loading M193 duplication loads for under 7 cents apiece and selling them for $125 a case. You had to buy quantity to get the best discounts and/or free shipping. The point was that anyone who claims to reload centerfire anything for less than 22 rimfire is in error at best. Or using components that were purchased decades ago. If the latter, it does no one any good. If the former? Even casting your own doesn't take into account for time spent. Which is why I ended up with all the cheap components. It was taking me about 8 hours to load 1,000 .223's when things were going good. $55 "profit" for 8 hours (if everything was going good) was less than $7 /hr. Oooh, what a path to wealth. For the average reloader today, using purchased components, it costs about $4.00 a box for 9MM. IF he uses lead, IF he scrounges his brass, IF he uses powder bought in bulk. It is fatuous logic to compare a scrounger's cost versus someone who has to buy retail. And what of shooters who for whatever reason can't shoot lead bullets? Now that box of 9MM costs close to WalMart's selling price.
A funny thing. Yesterday, I saw a guy buy 5 cases of Federal .223 loaded on stripper clips. He will be attending a Sig course for Tactical Carbine. He expects to shoot 2100 rounds in 3 days????? You've got to be kidding me. I don't know what the SOP towards reloaded ammunition is at Sig Academy, but believe me, I would've found a way. And the clerk said they were selling truck loads of ammunition. Myself, I was buying a box of mixed 308 and 30-06 once fired brass for $2. And that's how you do it, in this day and age. You watch the internet sites for deals, pick up brass at the range, go to local auctions and shop WalMart.

 

[evan price]

Enough. Where can you possibly reload 45 Auto or any other cartridge for less than primers cost? Yes, you can reload very inexpensively IF you scrounge lead and brass AND cast your own. But you still have to buy lube. You still have to amortize your equipment. You still have to pay for primers and powder. Even 3 grains of Bullseye costs you a penny. And unless I'm mistaken, and very badly at that, primers certainly cost well in excess of a penny.
Even considering the prices I paid for components way back when, my 9MM reloads are costing about 5 cents apiece.
And if in fact you can reload a box of 45 Auto for 91 cents, you are obligated to demonstrate for us all, how.

Amortize your equipment? This isn't a business endeavor. It's a hobby, and if you are going to amortize then you should include the recovered value if you were to sell the equipment and that reduces the actual expenditure. Or, figure it's a hobby and you spend the money to save the money.


I reload a wide variety of calibers. I recently started casting my own. I've managed to scrounge 1000# of wheel weights in the past year and I have about ten cents a pound invested in them. A 230-grain 45 slug is 30 per the pound. That means 3 for a penny. That does not include the propane to smelt them, or the lube, however.

But- I also am able to recover free backstop lead which consists of all sorts of bullets, including lots of jacketed. I found that by smelting backstop lead, I can then sell the recovered copper jackets (after magnetically separating the steel jackets) as #2 copper, and THAT totally offsets the expense of the propane to smelt them. FREE LEAD.

Let's use 45 acp as an example- and I am using prices that are CURRENT, not what I actually paid when I stocked up pre-Obamma:

Cost of 1000 TL-452-230-2R bullets from my 6-cavity Lee mold: $0
Cost of 1000 pcs of 45 acp brass from the club range: $0
Cost of 20 factory 45acp ammo boxes, from range trash cans: $0
1000 Wolf LP primers: $29.50
5000 grains Alliant Promo powder: $8.50
ALOX-lube from White Label: $1

TOTAL COST to load (1000) rounds of 45 acp 230-grain ammo: $39


Again, this is current prices for materials I either buy myself or see at the gun shows. $30/K primers are out there. I bought some for $28/k a week ago.

I get Alliant Promo for $96 a jug out the door with tax.

 

[Steve Marshall]

So...through much effort, you've reduced the cost of 45 Auto to $1.95 a box. Good. But that is more than double the cost of Jumping Frog's. Apparently you need to cut costs further, as this is far more than 22LR costs.

 

[hunto]

unaffordable

I buy mainly Russian guns and keep a supply of cheap surplus Russian ammo.

 

[Walkalong]

It's silly to have all the components you need to load ammo still sitting around as components. Load it up !

I don't agree. It's good to have both.

 

[evan price]

Actually, Steve, that's if I were to buy components TODAY.

Fortunately, I stocked up pre-Obamma and I am loading .45 acp for much less than that.

My actual cost to load 1000 .45 acp (Using stuff I bought 2 years ago) would be:

Brass & projectiles- free
Powder: $5.72
Primers: $17.95
Lube: $1

Total cost: $24.67 per thousand. Still not down to Frog's level. But the SAME PRICE or LESS THAN current retail for 1000 .22 LRs.

I bet there's guys that started hoarding many years ago getting down to Frog's level.