Interesting New Study of Bears vs. Guns

[Chris-bob]

No one ever practices on a 500-pound animal charging at you through the brush at 10 meters. They practice on paper targets

We would, but PETA gets mad at us for it...

I like a Pump 12ga loaded with a slug, then 00, then slug, then 00, and so on.

Granted, we have mostly blacks here in KTN, but on the Cleveland Peninsula(short skif ride away), there are lots of purty brownies.

 

[brickeyee]

Most attacks are by startle reaction of an unsuspecting bear.

So be sure to wear your little bells.

It will make finding the bear scat easier ... It will smell like pepper spray and have little bells in it.

 

[KodiakBeer]

So be sure to wear your little bells.

It will make finding the bear scat easier ... It will smell like pepper spray and have little bells in it.

That joke is a bit too old to be funny anymore.

Bears do attack (sometimes) when startled. Both in my anecdotal experiences (such as they are) and in biological studies it is the most common reason for attacks. It would be foolish to disregard that.

 

[JellyJar]

I wonder how many times someone has either shot and killed a charging bear or just shot at one that stopped the attack and then never mentioned it to the authorities?

If the event is never recorded anywhere than that would skew the statistics and make them worthless.

 

[Alaska444]

Today, 01:51 PM #54
JellyJar
Member

Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 936
I wonder how many times someone has either shot and killed a charging bear or just shot at one that stopped the attack and then never mentioned it to the authorities?

If the event is never recorded anywhere than that would skew the statistics and make them worthless.
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That is the issue entirely and additionally, Kodiakbeer noted the fur rondy that had over 100 DLP's in one year alone. The stats just don't add up making hte results of this study irrelevlant.

 

[ORHunter79]

Real question here for you Alaska folks. Do you use the 45-70 lever like the Marlin Guide gun? Would that be more or less effective than a 12ga?

 

[rugerman07]

I'll take my chances with a short barreled 12 gauge loaded with 00 or 000 buck shot. In a close encounter situation (20 yards or less), even a face shot with a quail/dove load will blind him. It may not kill him instantly, but it will stop him.

 

[Alaska444]

Dear Rugerman,

I don't believe it is likely that you are going to have a great chance of blinding a bear with buckshot at 20 yards. There are many excellent tests showing the amount of spread at that distance and the randomness of the pellets going where ever they feel like going with in a certain limit such as on my prior post. Anyone considering buckshot as a bear defense should review this test closely first.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Anyone even remotely considering buck shot for Brown Bear defense should not only review that Test Alaska444 but up, they should also review their sanity! They just simply do not have the penetration needed. Now maybe if you let the Bear eat the gun and you then pull the trigger, you may then have some effect on it Not really a situation I would personally wish to find myself in.

 

[Cosmoline]

I wonder how many times someone has either shot and killed a charging bear or just shot at one that stopped the attack and then never mentioned it to the authorities?

There are a great many of what we call "DLP" (defense of life or property) shootings every year, that are reported. Of course many are not reported, particularly if the bear runs off and you can't tell if you did hit it. These typical bear shootings could not have been included because the number of incidents would have been much larger in the study. In a single year in AK there could be many hundreds of incidents involving shots taken against bears. Without knowing the selection criteria, it's really difficult to say how valid the study is. By selecting only point-blank encounters the authors would bias the results against firearms, because they are least useful when there's insufficient time to aim.

But on the flip side, by including even mere defense of property shootings you'd risk slanting the results the other way, since you'd be showing the firearm's effectiveness in protecting chickens and such from bears posing no immediate threat to the person.

What we can say is that if you have time to aim and have a powerful long gun you stand a very good chance of being able to stop the bear from living much longer. Whether that's going to be enough to stop it from getting to you and clobbering you is another matter. The closer the bear and the more intent it is on doing you harm, the less useful any defense you have will be. But the further it is away and the more time you have to aim and fire, the less likely it is that the bear ever posed a real threat to you.

Ultimately you're taking your chances and what you do to prepare is a personal choice. Me, I run away because I am a raw unabashed coward.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Me, I run away because I am a raw unabashed coward.

UhOh Cosmo, you're "raw"!! Too bad for you as that is just how Bears like their meat! Raw and running away!

 

[Hocka Louis]

You forgot, bears head is fat and bone (and small in comparison brain)
shoulders and chest heavily furred, with alot of fat and muscle...

OMG, I just realized I'm a bear!

BTW, lotta people hunt (offense) bear with buckshot. But not in Alaska. They're Browner and bigger. But they do carry shotguns with slugs or buckshot (defense). I prefer a handgun but bigger hard buckshot, same as required of bullets for penetration, from a bigger shell like a 3" 12 ga. (or a 10 ga.) are devastating.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Been hunting and fishing in Alaska many times and know several of the guides up there. I have YET to see a single one of them loaded up with buckshot in their defensive shotguns.

 

[Panzercat]

been hunting and fishing in alaska many times and know several of the guides up there. I have yet to see a single one of them loaded up with buckshot in their defensive shotguns.

Thank you!

 

[KodiakBeer]

Well, I certainly know people who use buckshot. I lean towards slugs myself, for the reasons I mentioned earlier peculiar to my favorite shotgun. I think even if I had a shotgun that shot both to point of aim, I'd still lean towards slugs.

A slug gives you insurance should you miss that face shot. If a slug goes into the torso you have a good chance of slowing or knocking the bear down for a second shot. Buck, not so much...

Yet, I'm firmly convinced that making the face shot with buckshot will end the threat right there. You just have to make that shot... and that's the problem.

 

[dirtengineer]

One thing is for sure, you have a near zero percent chance of killing an attacking bear if you don't have a firearm. I don't go into the woods unarmed.

This article reeks of agenda. Just because guns don't save you in all encounters doesn't mean that it is ineffective.

A gun in this context is a safety device, like a seat belt. I see this as analogous to firearms for bear protection. The best avoidance of injury is to avoid crashing your car. Of course you should practice bear avoidance. The seat belt won't save you every time, but you still put it on if you are prudent. I carry a firearm for a low probability occurrence that might have dire results to improve my chances of survival. Perhaps some drive more haphazardly when they wear a seat belt, but I would guess most don't. I am still prudent in bear country (pretty much everywhere I hunt, hike, or camp) and practice bear avoidance.

 

[Alaska444]

Avoidance is the key to bear defense. When in the woods, be VERY careful in dense brush and have more than 4 in a group. Not done that way for hunting and that is why many hunters are victims of bear attacks.

 

[Franchise42]

Like many who have no experience in this area, I too would have assumed that buckshot would be good bear medicine assuming a shot to the face would do the trick of atleast stopping the bear. But, the more I've read and thought about it, slugs and a good aimed shot would definately be the way to go.

 

[gym]

Bears eat guns

 

[KodiakBeer]

You only know what the last bear did. You never know what the next one will do. You also can never know what the same bear will do on another day.

 

[rugerman07]

I don't believe it is likely that you are going to have a great chance of blinding a bear with buckshot at 20 yards. There are many excellent tests showing the amount of spread at that distance and the randomness of the pellets going where ever they feel like going with in a certain limit such as on my prior post. Anyone considering buckshot as a bear defense should review this test closely first.

What about small game loads, dove, quail, rabbits, etc. for close encounters with bears? How many bb's do they have, 200+? Wouldn't that increase your chances of a face shot? I'm not talking about a well placed shot with a 375 H&H magnum or 458 Winchester under stress in hopes of killing the bear, I'm talking about stopping his charge and if you take out his eyes you may not kill him but I think it would stop his attack.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

What about small game loads, dove, quail, rabbits, etc. for close encounters with bears? How many bb's do they have, 200+? Wouldn't that increase your chances of a face shot? I'm not talking about a well placed shot with a 375 H&H magnum or 458 Winchester under stress in hopes of killing the bear, I'm talking about stopping his charge and if you take out his eyes you may not kill him but I think it would stop his attack.

Yeah OK that's what I really want, an already pissed off 1000 pound set of teeth and claws even MORE pissed off Does everyone think that shotgun patterns come out in 20+ inches? Nope, they stay pretty much the same diameter of the bore for a good 5 or 7 yards according to the choke. So you are pretty much just going to POSSIBLY take out one eye. So lets review. Mr. Brown decides he is going to bust you. He has already started at you with cruel intentions. He has a full head of steam heading that 20 or so yards at 30+mph in about 2 steps. You fill his face full of BB's. Who do you think is going to win in that particular scenario? Me? I'm betting on Mr. Brown.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What about small game loads, dove, quail, rabbits, etc. for close encounters with bears? How many bb's do they have, 200+?

None.

BB is a specific shot size, and dove and rabbit loads use a smaller shot (number 9 to 7 1/2 for dove and qual, 8 to 6 for rabbits and squirrels.)

Regardless, blinding the bear is a bad idea -- because bears have very good hearing and smell, and if you pepper them with Number 9 to 6 shot, they're going to be really mad at you.

 

[4v50 Gary]

What dirt engineer says.

 

[Alaska444]

Very little data available on bears and buckshot in real life and EVEN less on birdshot. One of my childhood friends, Mike Morlein hit a bear on its nose with a walking stick and lived to talk about it as written up in a bear encounter book. He was 14 at that time and saved his friends life who took the brunt of the attack.

Buckshot in the face or birdshot may indeed turn some bears just as shooting a gun in the air above the head of charging grizzly saved a BC photographer. Not any data on that line of defense either.