Interesting New Study of Bears vs. Guns

[BLB68]

2) You won't have time to shoot the bear anyway, because his charge will surprise you and unslinging a long gun or unholstering a handgun takes too long. Pepper spray may be faster for some reason?

The reason is that if you don't have to unholster pepper spray to use it. Not that most people know this or bother to carry the spray for fast deployment. But it's possible.

I think a lot of people put too much thought into what to carry and not how to carry it for these types of situations.

 

[exavid]

A dog or two is probably the best early warning system in the bush where bears are around. Besides giving early warning a dog can slow a bear down and divert it long enough to get a rifle or heavy pistol in action. In most of the time I spent in NW and SE Alaska it was with an airplane that really didn't have room to take a good sized dog along. Bears can be bothersome critters, twice I've flown parts to pilots whose aircraft were damaged while the people were fishing. The worst was a Supercub whose tail and aft fuselage fabric was pretty well torn off by a grizzly at the confluence of the Noatak and Kelly rivers.

 

[Alaska444]

Today, 07:06 PM #102
exavid
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Join Date: December 22, 2010
Location: Medford, Oregon
Posts: 477
A dog or two is probably the best early warning system in the bush where bears are around. Besides giving early warning a dog can slow a bear down and divert it long enough to get a rifle or heavy pistol in action. In most of the time I spent in NW and SE Alaska it was with an airplane that really didn't have room to take a good sized dog along. Bears can be bothersome critters, twice I've flown parts to pilots whose aircraft were damaged while the people were fishing. The worst was a Supercub whose tail and aft fuselage fabric was pretty well torn off by a grizzly at the confluence of the Noatak and Kelly rivers.
__________________
"...extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice... moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue..." Barry Goldwater.

I had considered dogs as viable defense option especially with the early warning barking and growling a dog would give us. However, I have been impressed by the number of bear attack stories that began with a dog encountering a bear, getting scared and running back to their master only to bring the bear right with them.

There are some studies that show bears can be attracted to dogs as consideration of a food source making bear encounters more likely paradoxically. Few dogs have the training and the temperament to hold off a large bear. Fortunately, some do. As in all of these bear defense issues, the consideration of using a dog for defense is left with the answer, it depends.

 

[CZguy]

And why shoot if it means you have to skin and pack out 200 pounds of head and hide and then get anally probed by the F&G people?

I've read the entire thread, and this is by far and away the best argument to use bear spray.

 

[exavid]

I've wondered about how effective bear spray is in the rain or against the wind. It would tough for me to decide whether to reach for spray or firearm when you only have a second or two decision time. As I already mentioned a dog would be a good alarm. I don't expect one to stop or really slow a bear much but one could give a few moments warning that something was up. The real fact is that if a bear jumps you suddenly, close and unnoticed there isn't a hell of a lot one could do anyway.

 

[Alaska444]

Nah, don't bring the dog, just bring the little woman!!

Bear attacks man and dog; wife attacks bear; all survive

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...e-attacks-bear-all-live-to-tell-the-tale.html

As I said earlier, too many accounts of bear attacking dog and dog going back to master and bear attacking master to really want to have the average mut as my early warning system. This is a pretty extreme example, but there are more just like it unfortunately like the man near Yellowstone a few years ago as well.

 

[Loosedhorse]

even though I've almost always carrying pepper spray I've never had opportunity to use it. Mostly because I'm not willing to drop my shotgun to employ the spray

My "wisdom detector" just went off--very LOUD.



I'm seeing a marketing opportunity for a pepper spray that mounts under a shotgun like a tactical light. Running to the patent office right now...

 

[charlie echo]

I've wondered about how effective bear spray is in the rain or against the wind. It would tough for me to decide whether to reach for spray or firearm when you only have a second or two decision time. As I already mentioned a dog would be a good alarm. I don't expect one to stop or really slow a bear much but one could give a few moments warning that something was up. The real fact is that if a bear jumps you suddenly, close and unnoticed there isn't a hell of a lot one could do anyway.

Don't believe in warning shots.

I gave a bear a warning shot: No impact! (pun intended), but didn't shoot the bear since while the bruin was uncomfortably close, was not closing in.

I distinctly remember feeling that now I've blown 1/6th of my 44 ammo and only have five shots left in the dark within a canopy of trees under a cloudy moonless night. My speed loader was some where in the tent, by the boots.

I went back in our tent, trying to sleep: so it all got quiet, now I heard my wife's heart beat thus realizing under her calm demeanor was one heck of a scared pretty girl.

At early dawn, when the bears returned, I felt much better, more sober, and could at least take good front sight aim on a moving dangerous sentient being.

Since then, I bring a 44 carbine (or a slug pump) into the remote woods, with a flash light lashed to the barrel: A real comforting stick to have while sleeping softly.

Pepper sprays are a nice ideal, if I have another pair of calm hands to deploy, but most of life's troubles are solved by judicious use of cash or sturdy bullets, including having the courage not to, when that's right.

 

[wacki]

A better article relating to the thread can be found here:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0325171221.htm

It also addresses the myth about bear spray being useless in wind.

Science has a niftly little thing called peer review which does an excellent job of verifying the validity of studies, such as this. The general public on the other hand tend to dismiss science when its not convenient in supporting their opinions and biases.

Your link points to a study by the same bear scientist at brigham young university.

I agree science is nifty. I disagree that peer review is effective at screening out bad papers, data and methodology. If peer review was effective then in that respect then the reproducibility rate of drug papers wouldn't be so pathetically low.

Peer review is one tiny step in a long series of steps that need to occur in order to have confidence in any theory.

As a scientist, I can say there are a lot of crappy and even corrupt scientists out there. Read up on the history of "tobacco doesn't cause cancer" or watch the documentary "Inside Job" as a primer of how corrupt academics can be.

The fact that any bears died and yet that somehow is irrelevant should make you really wonder about this study.