Is .45-70 That Powerful?

[lizziedog1]

I was looking through my new Nosler reloading manual. For each cartridge, Nosler had a story about it written by some gun writer. I just read the one for the 45-70 Government, it is written by Brian Pearce.

He talks about taking this caliber to Africa to hunt cape buffalo. He says that at first his PH was skeptical about him using this old round. He did kill a bull with three shots. Each bullet did penetrate alot of animal, but we know how tough these creatrures are. Here is the amazing part.

His first shot hit the buffalo in the shoulder at one hundred yards. That bullet went all the way through the bull and struck a cow seven yards away. The bullet that went through the bull and then went through the cows shoulder and stopped short of exiting her far shoulder. She was found dead where she was hit. They didn't see her at first because the bull dwarfed her.

Is the 45-70 Government really that strong? I don't know if this story is true. But if it is, this is one heck of a caliber. There is little doubt it can handle anything on our continent.

 

[SaxonPig]

A big, heavy bullet can exhibit penetration qualities. In the 19th century hunters favored big, heavy bullets at low velocities. They can work...

The 45/70 is not a pipsqueak, but if I planned to shoot a cape buffalo I would take my 460. A 500 at 2400 FPS beats a 500 at 1500 FPS every day.

 

[suzukisam]

the cartridges "ability" and performance actually has way more to do with the firearm it is shot from than the cartridge. My marlin will pushe a 45/70 at nearly 450 marlin velocities. it's the same as 45lc many people think it's weak or underpowered, but in my 7.5" blackhawk, I'm getting 44 mag velocity. so it's kinda depending on whether your gun can use the cartridge to it's full potential.
my .02

 

[hardluk1]

With the right rifle you can push it very close to 458 win mag levels.

 

[Pokyman]

I once read a story first published in a 1930"s era American Rifleman written by a man that claimed to be a buffalo hunter during the late 1800's. He used a 45-90 with paper patched cast bullets and black powder.
He claimed at 300 yards on several occasions one round fired at a buffalo penetrated through two buffalo and into a third.
This 45-90 load would be traveling at velocities around 1300 fps. I would think the 45-70 using modern ammo would be capable of shooting through one African buffalo and into a second.

 

[jmorris]

You need a modern rifle to load hot enough to knock on the door of the 458 win mag.

That powerfull? The pile of skulls in the photo below was taken before any "magnum" or "super short" round existed.

 

[brnmuenchow]

The .45-70Gov't. is a very powerful round, and could certainly take down I believe anything in North America. I do believe that most commercial ammunition manufacture's have to load them with conservative charges, in order to keep the pressure levels within safe limits for the "Trapdoor" Spfld. rifles. Otherwise I have heard that they can be loaded to the previous mentioned .458Win.Mag. loads. As for the African cape buffalo, I have read somewhere an individual succesfully took one with the .45-70, but it would not be my first choice. (Mabye a "Bazooka",j/k.)-- I think at the very "least", I would go with a .416 Rigby the cape buffalo is not something I would want to experiment with.

 

[Pigoutultra]

I agree, the cape buffalo is much too tough to risk shooting it with a .45-70. For plains game I see no issues with it though.

 

[rr2241tx]

A .45/70 loaded to its potential gives up virtually nothing in practical terms to anything that has come since. Even at moderate pressures a heavy round nose or semi-wadcutter hardcast bullet will plow right through bone and tissue. Those worshipping at Roy Weatherby's Temple of High Velocity may not believe how little additional lethality all their extra powder actually buys them.

 

[Robert]

If it works or not is moot as 45-70 does not meet the power requirements to be legal to hunt thick skinned DG in Africa. It can be loaded close to but not equal to 458 Win Mag. But close is not enough.

45-70 is great for all North American game, I carry one as my Elk rifle. 45-70, slow moving as it is, will pass through a Bison with out issue.

 

[winchester1886]

I'm a 45-70 fan and I load a 400gr Speer JSP to approx 2,000 fps for large hogs and a every day load of a 325gr RNF/ gas check at around 1,450 fps It has awesome power.It has been around for over 100 years and sales are still strong.

 

[saturno_v]

With the right rifle you can push it very close to 458 win mag levels.

No you don't.....the 45-70 is a great round (a rifle chambered for it is on my wish list) but is no 458 WM....I don't know why people still believe this fairy tale......case capacity is smaller and you can never ever approach 60K+ psi.

 

[Cosmoline]

It's really three or more rounds in one. The original black powder load, the mid-range commercial hunting loads, and the hardcast "+p" loads from B-Bore and Garret or handloading. But even at the upper reaches it's a ways off from .458 WM. I've never heard of a .45-70 reaching the 5,000 ft. lb. level.

 

[C-grunt]

A heavy hard cast round will penetrate quite far. Its going fast enough to give it a lot of momentum but not fast enough to severely deform the projectile.

 

[X-Rap]

For a cartridge that is almost 140 yrs old to still be kicking and probably increasing in popularity says quite a bit.
Since its inception, innovations in the guns and modern powder have almost doubled its power. I have taken numerous elk with mine and inside 150 yds it is as effective as anything I have to compare it to. It is however no magic cartridge and a far cry from Roys big stompers.

 

[rocklock]

Some More Info

If one looks at a Hornady reloading manual, it shows different .45-70 load levels for:

1. Trapdoor Springfield
2. Marlin 1895
3. Ruger #1

The Ruger #1 can only be loaded with a Hornady 500 gr. bullet to 1800 fps (3,000 ft. lbs.), while in a .458 Win. it goes up to 2150 fps.
Years ago, using a Hornady 350 gr. RN moving at 2,000 fps while elk hunting, I killed a large herd cow with one shot through the chest broadside at about 65 yds, and the elk standing behind it in the dark timber about 25 yds. away, which I did not see when I shot the herd cow. This year I tried the Hornady 325 gr. FTX handload @ 2,000 fps and shot a cow broasdside at a lasered 292 yds., and the bullet again went all the way through, but no bystanders were killed this time.

 

[chas08]

I bought mine, a Marlin 1895G, three years ago. I love it. I never thought that such an ancient chambering could be so deadly, and accurate. This past season I took the heaviest whitetail, that I've ever killed, on an out of state hunt in PA. It was a simple double lung shot, right behind the shoulder at 50 yds. That deer hit the ground like he had been hit with a free falling anvil. If I were ever to encounter a Cape Buffalo in S.Texas while hunting Whitetails...(lol)... I'd sure rather have it, than my 7mm Mag.

 

[KodiakBeer]

A number of elephants have been taken in recent years with Marlins using 535 grain Garret Hammerheads. So yeah, a .45-70 (in the right rifle capable of heavy loads) is an extremely powerful round.



An elephant taken with a Garret round.



My wife with her Marlin picking berries on Kodiak, also loaded with Garret rounds.

 

[Robert]

In which African countries is 45-70 legal? I was under the impression that 45-70 did not meet the minimum power requirement.

 

[Pigoutultra]

I've never heard of a .45-70 reaching the 5,000 ft. lb. level.

More evidence that f/lbs doesn't mean anything: I have seen 45-70 loads that go up to 4,800 f/lbs or energy. Of course these were with very light bullets at high velocity, 250gr bullet at almost 3000 ft/s. Despite these numbers, I would never think of using that load for hunting anything other than varmints.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Jmorris - any background story to that picture? thats a lot of skulls

 

[KodiakBeer]

In which African countries is 45-70 legal?

Check out the Garret web site for load data and other info. People are taking elephants, rhino, cape buffalo, etc, with Garret rounds. I can't give you energy figures off the top of my head, but a .45-70 Garret Hammerhead will out-penetrate any weight of .458 Winchester Magnum.

 

[Maverick223]

I can't give you energy figures off the top of my head, but a .45-70 Garret Hammerhead will out-penetrate any weight of .458 Winchester Magnum.

No sir, not when comparing solid bullets. With expanding bullets that has proven to be the case in some instances.

I handload my .45-70Govt. to best the specifications of my .375H&H...is that powerful? That said, the loads for the .45-70Govt. are well above the published maximum and are driving light-for-caliber bullets at a comparably high velocity. The .375H&H stays within maximums to maintain reasonable pressures (for easy extraction) and is loaded with very heavy-for-caliber solids and well constructed expanding projectiles. I would NOT trust my .45-70Govt. for lg., dangerous African game such as Elephant, the same is not true for the H&H (though it wouldn't be my first choice either).

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Jmorris - any background story to that picture? thats a lot of skulls

I would guess Kansas, circa early 1870s.
The buffalo hunters killed them by the thousands. The sad part is that they took the hides and tounges and for the most part left the rest to rot. They say that the stench in places like Dodge City was horrific from the hides, which were piled high themselves.

 

[X-Rap]

I think the bones were also collected like in the pictures and shipped to the east for use in fertilizer and glass making.