Is gun ownership becoming a luxury?

[22-rimfire]

Guns are far more plentiful and cheaper to own that any other time in history if you account for inflation. <snip>

People gripe and complain about the prices today, but our parents and grandparents found a way to spend an even greater percentage of their incomes on guns and ammo. It is about choices and how we spend our money. Anyone who can afford a computer and pay for internet access can afford a few really nice guns if they want to.

Considering the much better guns and ammo, we've never had it better.

I can tell you when adjusted for inflation, I made more money when I was 21-22 and just out of college with a job using my major. Years later, the salary goes up, but it seldom really keeps up with inflation even when you rapidly climb within your field for the first 10 years. People are really feeling the squeeze these days whether or not you know it. The "inflation meter" is really "off" these days and it is all about politics.

 

[jcwit]

All depends on one's priorities. I have never been a rich man, but we own our own home, that is own, no payments, we own our 2 vehicles, no payments, paid cash for auto's since 1972, that was the year I purchased my new Corvette, my collection of forearms numbers in the hundreds. I have more ammo then I'll likely ever shoot and the same with reloading components. I am a member of 3 ranges. And I'm a disabled Vet.

Ya, shooting is a rich mans sport??????????????????????????????

 

[R.W.Dale]

All depends on one's priorities. I have never been a rich man, but we own our own home, that is own, no payments, we own our 2 vehicles, no payments, paid cash for auto's since 1972, that was the year I purchased my new Corvette, my collection of forearms numbers in the hundreds. I have more ammo then I'll likely ever shoot and the same with reloading components. I am a member of 3 ranges. And I'm a disabled Vet.



Ya, shooting is a rich mans sport??????????????????????????????

I'm not going to go too far down the class warfare-age rant road but you mention buying a corvette in 72 which I'm assuming makes you an older citizen.

All this STUFF and wealth you've managed to accumulate (which I applaud you for) simply is not possible to do anymore except in all but the rarest cases. You may not give this factor credit but your head start plays a huge factor in your success. The choices you made in the 70's to get you where you are today don't even get you a 20yo Craigslist Buick and a cheap apartment for someone in the same age demographic nowadays.

The days of joe blow getting out of high school, finding a slightly over min wage job and buying a home, car and raising a family on one income are OVER. To do these things today require TWO incomes making significantly more, education isn't really the answer anymore either as that leaves you in debt close to six figures from the get go.

As a 30 something family man I've made more and more money steadily and in the past 10 years especially have been able to do less and less with it.

Worst of all the boomers and folks running the show are totally oblivious as to how the "American dream" has turned into a fantasy for younger citizens. Part of me thinks they're simply oblivious another suspects that they don't care since they've already got what they want.

 

[Warp]

Here it is <$100 for a 5 year (I think 5?) carry license, and you (plus up to 7 guests at a time) can use any state run range with a GORP (Georgia Outdoor Recreation Pass) that costs $35/year.

 

[Agsalaska]

To get this back on topic for THR, I dont think it is a luxury in any sense. My economist brain views it it economic terms. And in that case it is clearly a normal good and not a luxury good. It is certainly not an essential good.

In a more mainstream(or real world if you will) definition I still wouldnt consider it a luxury. You can still buy a general purpose 12 gauge used in a pawn shop for a couple of hundred bucks that will satisfy just about every practical need one would have of a firearm to one degree or another. It will certainly offer you protection. You can buy a scoped 30-06 brand new for $350, or a used one of better quality for little more. Police trade in Glocks are under $400 and used rossi .38s can be had for $200. So if you went the handgun route cheap, bought 200 rounds of ammo and spent $180(Texas) for a CHL, you are coming in well uner $1000. I get times are tougher than they used to be but that doesnt come close to luxury no matter how you slice it. Heck a lot of people spend that on cable TV in a year.

Now being an avid collector or shooter, especially if you appreciate great glass, nice stocks, or 100 year old Browning designs, is obviously much more expensive. Any kind of collecting could be considered luxury in one sense or another. But the basic needs can easily be satisfied long before you reach anything close to luxury status.

 

[jcwit]

The days of joe blow getting out of high school, finding a slightly over min wage job and buying a home, car and raising a family on one income are OVER. To do these things today require TWO incomes making significantly more, education isn't really the answer anymore either as that leaves you in debt close to six figures from the get go.

Really? The Amish "Bless their Souls" here in No. Indiana's RV capital normally make $75 to $100,000 per year with a school education stopping at the age of 16. Does the wife work? In a word NO!

Like I said, all depends on one's priorities.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

It is a luxury. Nothing requires us to own guns and ammo. There are no people willing to gather and organize so as to create a cheap and easy means of poor and middle class folks becoming gun owners and active RKBA voters. Most people are quite happy to sit and whine about the plight of things but ask them to put some skin in the game and take a little risk. You might as well be asking them to go without their cable TV.

Folks would rather sit on their duffs and do nothing while whining than take a small chance and make a small effort to accomplish great things.

 

[jcwit]

It is a luxury. Nothing requires us to own guns and ammo. There are no people willing to gather and organize so as to create a cheap and easy means of poor and middle class folks becoming gun owners and active RKBA voters. Most people are quite happy to sit and whine about the plight of things but ask them to put some skin in the game and take a little risk. You might as well be asking them to go without their cable TV.

Folks would rather sit on their duffs and do nothing while whining than take a small chance and make a small effort to accomplish great things.

Right, and its amazing how much cash can be accumulated doing without a 6 pack, or bottle of booze, and cigs.

This then can be funneled into the rich mans sport.

 

[welldoya]

These ridiculous prices would go down if people would quit paying them.
Don't pay $10 for a movie ticket. It's all going to the star who just made $20 million.
Same with pro athletics. What some of these guys are making is ridiculous. Don't go to the games.
Don't buy a new car. Fix the old one.
Things would have to change eventually.
I had more disposable income when I was single and making $20k in 1980 than I do now.

 

[CoalTrain49]

As a 30 something family man I've made more and more money steadily and in the past 10 years especially have been able to do less and less with it.

Worst of all the boomers and folks running the show are totally oblivious as to how the "American dream" has turned into a fantasy for younger citizens. Part of me thinks they're simply oblivious another suspects that they don't care since they've already got what they want.

That's more or less what I was trying to address. I'm a boomer and I have boomer friends. Our kids are grown and we have pensions, investment income, no mortgage or car payments and a full SSI check rolling in every month. That's just my situation though and I know that the generations behind me are struggling. So what may seem like an easy thing to afford for me may not be the case for everyone. I know that peoples discretionary income isn't what it was and it gets smaller every year. That would lead me to believe that gun ownership may be unaffordable for some people already.

 

[22-rimfire]

Let me give you a real example, when I was 22 and looking for my first new car, I intended to pay mostly cash. A 450 SLC Mercedes was about 25K. Now a comparable Mercedes are beyond anything I could hope to pay for from earned income.

Unless you work for the government, you can generally forget getting a good factory job or a white collar job and working there for 30 years. The company may well be sold several times during that time period and the likelihood of being flushed are very high. They only thing folks have now are 401K plans or the equivalent. They're great, but for lower income folks, they can't contribute the % that the company might match because they are barely surviving day to day.

Yep, cable tv is expensive.... But is it a luxury these days? I don't think so.

Now, back to guns.... I don't consider a reasonable number of guns as a luxury even at today's prices. If you hunt, you need suitable guns for the sport. I am starting to consider deer hunting a luxury expense.

If you buy a spare gun (you know 2 is 1), that's a luxury. If you buy four or five when one is enough, that's a luxury. I collect guns. Yeah. Most of them have appreciated nicely relative to my purchase price. But factor in inflation, I am loosing money relative to a modest risk stock market/mutual fund investment of the same money. I sort of view collector stuff as pure luxuries, but they often don't start out that way.

If you look at the price of new S&W revolvers, they (the classic ones in particular) beginning to exceed normal people's ability to purchase one unless they plan for months for the purchase or whip out a credit card and pay finance charges for months.

But owning A gun is not a luxury. Owning 10 probably is if they essentially fulfil the same purpose.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Really? The Amish "Bless their Souls" here in No. Indiana's RV capital normally make $75 to $100,000 per year with a school education stopping at the age of 16. Does the wife work? In a word NO!



Like I said, all depends on one's priorities.

Bad example. The land the Amish typically earn that living from has been owned in the family for GENERATIONS. Purchased back when a pious frugal farming family could afford the stuff.

You think they're a realistic example? Show me someone with a 16yo's education and a hourly job starting from scratch setting out and buying a 800 acre farm so he can live like the Amish.

The freaking AMISh couldn't even live like the AMISH if they were starting out from scratch today without the community backing

 

[jcwit]

I know that peoples discretionary income isn't what it was and it gets smaller every year. That would lead me to believe that gun ownership may be unaffordable for some people already.

And what do they drive? A large Pick-up, SUV? What gas mileage does it get. Large screen TV? Mega Mansion for a home? Which leads to high property taxes, high heating costs. Central Air? Pool?

The list goes on and on. Its all about priorities.

 

[jcwit]

Bad example. The land the Amish typically earn that living from has been owned in the family for GENERATIONS.

Sorry guy, wrong again. Many Amish that work in the factories today live on 10 to 20 acres which isn't even enough to support one buggy horse and extra hay must be purchased at $80 + bucks a round bale which lasts a week or two.

Farming Amish may have farms that have been in the family for a few generations but not the factory workers. I live here, I have gone to school with them, many are my personal friends.

 

[R.W.Dale]

And what do they drive? A large Pick-up, SUV? What gas mileage does it get. Large screen TV? Mega Mansion for a home? Which leads to high property taxes, high heating costs. Central Air? Pool?



The list goes on and on. Its all about priorities.

People living like that TO THE NUMBER are virtually all in debt to the hilt.

If you look past the people taking the easy way to nowhere (debt) and past the "gimme" generation (boomers) and look at the people trying to live like you did you might come to the sad sad realization that they will pretty much NEVER own anything.

 

[22-rimfire]

I drive a 1997 pickup.... and it gets about 25mpg and has 200K miles on it. I have young people who work for me that this truck almost older than they are. Big screen... nope. Expensive house... nope. Pool... nope. But I do own a Weatherby 22 rifle. Yeah, that's probably a luxury, but it wasn't when I bought it new years ago.

 

[jcwit]

You think they're a realistic example? Show me someone with a 16yo's education and a hourly job starting from scratch setting out and buying a 800 acre farm so he can live like the Amish.

The majority of Amish no longer live on a farm, most live on 10 to 20 acres as I noted above.

Foy you to even think of farming with horses an 800 acre farm just shows how little you actually know unless it's only a dairy herd or raising beef. Further if it's a dairy herd, how in heavens name are they going to milk that herd by hand? Plus milk from most all Amish is only good for cheese or butter making as they have no cooling equipment till p/u by the milk hauler.

 

[jcwit]

If you look past the people taking the easy way to nowhere (debt) and past the "gimme" generation (boomers) and look at the people trying to live like you did you might come to the sad sad realization that they will pretty much NEVER own anything.

You have no idea how I lived.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Ok fine you want to hold living like the Amish up as a lofty goal let's explore that notion.

In 72 you were buying corvettes. These Amish you hold so virtuous are living like...well the AMISH

Past = corvette

Today = no electricity

That my friend is a decrease in the standard of living. And the Amish will feel it too once the Latin immigrants figure out theses $100k a year factory jobs to be had in Indiana.

 

[amanda]

For a hunter, police officer, gang member, or person otherwise in need of the security a gun brings, a gun is a necessary item for existence. The second that a gun is bought purely or even mainly for pleasure, it is a luxury item.

That being said, for someone watching funds, even a $200 (okay, I'm cheap, $5 would proabably do it) expenditure on something I'm not 100% sure is necessary can make me sweat. The gun itself aside, bullets are a huge expense. Given the costs of ammo and their inherent transitory nature I'm looking at something akin to a smoking habit that will cost me thousands of dollars in my lifetime if I care to stay proficient. (And that's just if I care to keep a gun on my own premises.)

That's one hell of an investment. It is the (possibly naive) feeling that owning and being able to efficiently use a gun will make me safer that makes this luxury item worth that expenditure. You do choose your luxuries. Sweet smelling soap, hot water, chocolate icecream, leather jackets, computer, cell phones, and yes, bullets/guns are among those choices.

 

[R.W.Dale]

You have no idea how I lived.

That may be. And you have no idea what living and raising a family is like today so we are even

 

[fallout mike]

I agree with jcwit. I make the least amount of $ now than I ever have. But I live more comfortably than ever bc I have learned to make each $ scream and got my priorities in line.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Sure. Most of the things we have are luxuries....indoor plumbing, HVAC, refrigerated food, ect....Most, of what we have aren't necessities.

 

[fallout mike]

When my income was 6 digits I had lots of "stuff" with payments. Now its not half that and I have no payments. Big difference.

 

[jcwit]

Ok fine you want to hold living like the Amish up as a lofty goal let's explore that notion.

In 72 you were buying corvettes. These Amish you hold so virtuous are living like...well the AMISH

Past = corvette

Today = no electricity

That my friend is a decrease in the standard of living. And the Amish will feel it too once the Latin immigrants figure out theses $100k a year factory jobs to be had in Indiana.

Ever consider how much it costs to light the house with propane or white gas?

And the Latin folks have already discovered it, but make little inroads as owners of many of the factories have family members still in the group.

Lower standard of living???? Only subjective to ones thinking.

Like I say, you know not of what you speak of.