Is gun ownership becoming a luxury?

[kwguy]

Each generation has its own rules and difficulties. That never changes.

Back to firearms being a luxury, you get and shoot what you can afford. That's why manufacturers make so many different models. Take a look at some of the iron people use for fun today, like 3000 dollar AR's, firing a thousand rounds for a competition or something, and the awesome increases in the various shooting sports, and I'm sure there are some from the older generations that would think folks are nuts for 'blowing' so much money and ammo on such a thing.

That's no more a luxury than being able to afford a $100,000 car is to some. But, you can also buy a less expensive car, just like you can a firearm.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Each generation has its own rules and difficulties. That never changes.

Back to firearms being a luxury, you get and shoot what you can afford. .

True.


But that brings us to a different crisis where the 22 ammo crunch is seriously jeopardizing the low cost end of the shooting sport.

I understand that it's not a bubble and it's not all horders fault. But two + years in I seriously worry that we've simply established a new normal if not in supply certainly in price.

Remember how after hurricane Katrina gasoline prices never really went back down? I'm afraid 22 ammo is about to experience the same market reset

 

[Sol]

^ The hot thing a few years ago was to blame the refineries for high gas prices.

 

[R.W.Dale]

^ The hot thing a few years ago was to blame the refineries for high gas prices.

Right. But lost in all the after the fact finger pointing is the unfortunate fact that US the consumer are getting and KEPT ON getting hosed.

Who cares who is to blame?

 

[Bobson]

This is the most depressing thread I've ever read.

1. The guns I still want, I can't afford yet.
2. The guns I can afford now, I don't want, ever.
3. For me, owning additional firearms is a luxury.

 

[vamo]

was just looking at I-594 which will be voted on here soon. If passed it will add a transfer fee to a private sale.

If I carry concealed I pay for the license to do that.

If I buy a gun from a dealer his sales price includes his fee for his time to do a background check and his overhead to maintain his FFL.

I can no longer access public land (gated and locked) so I pay range fees.

If I ship a handgun myself I pay $100 more or less.

If I ship a handgun through a dealer I pay $100 more or less.

Ammo prices have increased 25% in the last few years.

Reloading component prices have increased 25% in the last few years.

About the only good news is firearms prices haven't increased that much but that doesn't begin to offset the increases that I see elsewhere.

Luxury

: a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth

: something that is expensive and not necessary

: something that is helpful or welcome and that is not usually or always available

By the 2nd definition yes and it has always been with perhaps the exception of frontier settlers. Now don't get mad something can be a luxury and a right at the same time. The modern weapon of the day has always been expensive.

Yes, the fees for basic firearm ownership and use is more than it was in the past. Some here call it a poll tax, not sure if I'd be willing to go that far in every circumstance

At the same time manufacturing has greatly improved to the point where simply buying a gun in a state without an arduous registration system is actually quite cheap. Some so not so rich people have safes crammed full of guns.

There are several serviceable weapons at a very low cost out there, those on the lower rungs of society would have to budget, but hi points and some reliable shotguns are frequently priced under $200.

Your title only mentioned ownership, the really big fees you mentioned are about use. Which imo is a totally different conversation than the one we're having about keeping weapons out of the hands of the poor in the first place.

Use is only as expensive as you make it, plenty of calibers are still cheap enough, and you're always going to pay a bit more for range use in an urban area. Sidenote: I actually shoot at a public (state operated) range for the very reasonable price of $3 per/hr, if there isn't a line I get to shoot for longer than the hr.

One final point. Can you really say its any more a luxury now than before when many people of modest income own mutiple safes overflowing with guns?

Bottom line, the fees and restrictions (those that increase costs and otherwise) are annoying, but gun ownership is as cheap as its ever been.

 

[USAF_Vet]

How far off the rails did this thread go?

Owning a gun isn't a luxury. Owning a luxury gun is a luxury. Owning a 9mm Hi Point and a few boxes of steel cased Russian ammo is possible on virtually any budget. Most of us can probably drop the $200 on that package any day of the week, others might need to save and sacrifice for it.

A license to carry is a luxury. One I don't particularly agree with, considering I believe the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental human right that has been obstructed by bureaucrats.

Hunting can be a luxury. Very very few Americans are subsistence hunters any more. No need to be. But do I see deer hunting as a luxury? $15 a tag here in Michigan. No need for a high end luxury rifle and equally expensive scope. I harvested my first deer here with a Maverick 88 12 gauge and a $40 Bushnell scope. I didn't need any thing more expensive than what amounted to about a $250 investment.

I'm not out shooting every weekend, I work too much for that.

Guns and ammo and shooting are as expensive as the buyer makes it. I buy used guns, inexpensive guns, and I honestly have more than I would ever need, barring some fantasy zombie apocalypse BS.

Its a hobby, hobbies have always fallen under the umbrella of disposable income. I've had numerous hobbies come and go over the years, and with each one I've lost interest in, I've lamented the amount of money I've spent, and been unable to recoup.

I'm far from rich. I'm in my mid 30's, a union mechanic, wife who doesn't work full time, and two kids in school. I can afford what I need, and then some. I can keep a roof over our heads, food in our bellies, cable, internet, cell phones and other junk... and not feel financially pinched. I have two vehicles, one with a lien.

The economy sucks, and stuff is getting more expensive. I hear people complain about it all the time. But, all I have to do is think about my grand father. His father, a WWI veteran, died when my granddad was a child, leaving my great grandmother to raise my granddad, his brother, and a couple cousins during the depression, because she was the best off financially. She had a job, driving a school bus. I don't think anyone here really understands poverty unless they've experienced it. At one point in my life, I had nothing, and was sleeping on a couch in the basement of a family member I barely knew. I've experienced poverty, bankruptcy... I found my rock bottom, and so I look at the situation and think, it could get worse. And then strive to ensure it doesn't.

So, in a nutshell, in some places, certain things and activities might be considered luxuries.
Gun ownership, really isn't one of them. What you can do with it, however, can be.

 

[plmitch]

Owning firearms are a luxury plain and simple.....

 

[H. Floyt]

The answer is going to be regional too.

E.g. guns are less of a luxury in Arizona than California.

 

[Bobson]

TLDR:

This subject is 100% driven by individual circumstances that vary from one person to another, and so there's no reason to debate this. It's like arguing over whether it's "hot" outside. I'm wearing shorts and grew up in the desert, but you're wearing a parka and grew up in the Arctic. We're not going to reach a mutual conclusion.

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Someone pointed out that luxury is defined as something that is expensive and not necessary.

Something being expensive doesn't make it a luxury.
Something being unnecessary doesn't make it a luxury.

A car is typically expensive. Whether a $10,000 or $75,000 car, they're both expensive. For instance, if I can't afford a gun, I probably can't afford a car either. However, a car is (usually) necessary. So a car is not a luxury.

Going out of town on a vacation is typically unnecessary. If I need to rest, I can take time off work and rest in my home and I don't need to spend extra money to get that rest. However, going out of town on vacation need not always be expensive. It might be as simple as driving a couple hours away and sleeping in a tent for the weekend. In this scenario, a vacation, while unnecessary, is still not a luxury.

So let's look at guns. Are guns expensive? It could be argued that they are, depending on one's income. Are guns necessary? It could be argued that they are, depending on where a person lives.

If Joe lives in South Phoenix by the airport, he ought to have a gun to protect himself, because that area is infested with crime (really). If Joe happens to be a doctor, Joe probably makes six figures or more, so it's fair to say he can afford just about any gun he wants. For Joe, a gun is both necessary and inexpensive. So for Joe, a gun is not a luxury.

Now take Mark. Suppose Mark lives in North Phoenix, in a quiet neighborhood, where 90% of his neighbors are young married families with young children running around. This neighborhood only had one reported crime in the last six months, and it was a DUI. Mark is in no immediate need a gun to protect himself. Mark happens to be a Federal correctional officer, employed at the prison just north of Carefree Highway. He makes less than $40k annually, and since he lives in an expensive neighborhood, he doesn't really have the money to buy guns just because he enjoys them. So for Mark, a gun is both unnecessary and expensive. For Mark, a gun is a luxury.

There. Proof that this subject is 100%, purely driven by opinion and individual circumstances that vary from one person to another. Let's wrap this thread up, as it isn't doing anybody any good.

 

[justice06rr]

+10000 to Bobson's post above.

Guns themselves are still cheap. You can get a Mosin rifle for under $150, or a handgun for under $300.

If you aren't going to shoot it what's the point of owning a gun? I suppose there are people who buy guns that never shoot them just like there are people who have boats that never go in the water. But where's the satisfaction in that?

For some, it is just to own guns. Others are collectors, while others just don't shoot enough for one reason or another.

Ask a collector who owns 50+ guns how many he actually shoots. Even a casual shooter who owns 3-10 guns may not shoot as much due to finances or personal restrictions.

As someone mentioned, gun ownership is not necessarily a luxury. But it can get expensive the more you get into it.

 

[skiking]

I would say guns are definitely not "becoming a luxury". I don't make a bunch of money, and in fact I don't make very much, about $31k/year, but I can still pay my bills, put 10% towards retirement, go golfing once a month, shoot 8-10 rounds of trap or skeet every month, put 2-300 rounds through my handguns every month, ~150 rounds through my rifles every month, buy a new gun 2 or 3 times a year, and still have money to put in the bank. Life is about priorities, if you looked at your lifestyle you would likely find a way to cut a dollar here or a dollar there and find money for your hobbies.

Unlike most Americans, I choose to live debt free, and I don't care if I drive a beater around, if I can't pay cash, I don't buy it. It is amazing how liberating it is.

 

[alsaqr]

Yep, guns and shooting can become expensive fast but you can minimize expenses by buying used guns, etc. This year i will shoot somewhere between 8,000 and 15,000 rounds of centerfire rifle ammunition. Some of that ammunition was acquired very cheaply many years ago, much are my reloads.

In the June, 2014 American Rifleman has an article on the testing of four inexpensive centerfire rifles. Those rifles were the Mossberg ATR, the Remington model 783, the Ruger American and the Savage Axis. Last fall the retail price of those guns varied from $290 to $320 in the author's area of Montana.

All of those guns were serviceable. IMO: With that Tupperware stock and plastic trigger guards they are not pretty. But they are good reliable guns.

 

[TRX]

When people will drop $100+ on a pair of sneakers, are guns really that expensive?

 

[Sav .250]

It's everything not just guns.

Perfect................

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Owning guns is not a luxury, theyre a tool like anything else.
but if you're one of us (hobby shooters) then yes. I dont think most people shoot near as much as we do, and doing so is a luxury imo

 

[huntsman]

I still consider firearms a necessity but I could see how a suburbanite hobbyist would feel the price pressure and question the real value of firearms.

 

[Midwest]

Is gun ownership becoming a luxury?

Gun Ownership? No ...
Except in New Jersey where one needs up to three references with social security numbers including one from your employer in some places like Jersey City, also be fingerprinted, get your private health records scrutinized by the police, go through an extensive background check, have the police come to your house to verify your residence, pay $80 in fees, wait 3 to 6 months in order to get a paper card that allows you to buy a .22 squirrel rifle...then yes it is a luxury.

Ammunition Yes.

When one has to take time out of their busy schedule or work (much like when one makes an appointment) to stand in line at Walmart sporting goods section "when the truck gets in" in order to get a box of ammo before the regular hoarders get there. It becomes a luxury...

.

 

[Joe Demko]

We had a period where, beginning roughly when the Soviet Union broke up, ammunition became incredibly cheap and plentiful. The market was awash in surplus and manufacturers in former ComBloc countries began producing ammunition for commercial sale. The surplus gradually dried up; there was not an infinite supply of it. War, metals prices, hoarding and who knows what other factors have driven price up and availability down on commercial ammo. Still, as much as I preferred the times of plenty, they were the aberration, not the times of relative scarcity. Other than survivalist types (and I am a recovering survivalist), before the Times of Plenty I don't remember most shooters having a mountain of ammo on hand. Most everybody that I knew and shot with had a few boxes for hunting guns on hand, and maybe a couple hundred-round boxes of .22 lr. There wasn't any to buy cheap so you could stack it deep. Many, like myself, reloaded ammo precisely because factory loaded ammunition was expensive.
I remember in the late 1970's paying $12 for a box of .38 spl ammo at the local hardware store and having to do paper work because it was pistol ammo. I made $5 an hour at the time, which was well above minimum wage. That price wasn't unusual and none of the gun stores or department stores (all of which are gone) were any lower.
I wish ammo was cheap and plentiful again, but I don't look for that to happen.

 

[larryh1108]

Is owning a gun for the right to protect yourself/family expensive?
Not really when you consider you can buy an inexpensive gun for ~$200 and a box of ammo for ~$20 and be set for the next 20 years. That's $10 a year or <$1 a month.

If you want to shoot that gun enough to be comfortable with it and safe, you need to spend some money on practice ammo. How much depends on the person's experience with guns. It could be a box of 50 a year for ~$20 a year or a box a month for ~$20 a month. The gun is already there so the cost to shoot the minimum is ~$20 per _______ .

Now, if you want to go to the range and blast thru 200 or 500 rounds a month, it now crosses into a luxury because you are doing it for fun, not for survival. Now is where it can be expensive if you like to shoot a lot or are in a shooting sport. You crossed the line from need to luxury by choice. You don't HAVE to shoot 500 rounds a month, you just WANT to. Huge difference.

Owning a gun and having a box of ammo and a permit is not out of reach for almost any American who can legally buy one. Wanting an AR or 1911 is not a need but a luxury. You get to choose which way you wish to go but to say owning a gun for SD has become too expensive for the average American is not true.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I don't know how many times on this very forum I've read some iteration of the statement "you need at least 1000 rounds of your carry ammo through a pistol to know if it's reliable"

There's not a "expert" out there who won't tell you this.

That isn't a necessity, it's not even a luxury, that's a straight up fantasy for far too many people these days

 

[larryh1108]

I've read here that for a semi you need 200 in a row without a failure and for revolvers, a few cylinders to check function. However, everyone has their own opinion in what constitutes "reliable for carry".

 

[jcwit]

I don't know how many times on this very forum I've read some iteration of the statement "you need at least 1000 rounds of your carry ammo through a pistol to know if it's reliable"

There's not a "expert" out there who won't tell you this.

That isn't a necessity, it's not even a luxury, that's a straight up fantasy for far too many people these days

Hey, Hey, Hey, on this we can agree on, not only is it a fantasy, its ridiculous.

Sorry, can't stick around for a discussion, but I'm on my way to the VA for a hearing test. New aids? Maybe?

 

[gym]

It's really like anything else you buy. You can buy a cheap car, watch ,house, etc. or an expensive, one, they will both do the job. Guns have become more of a collecting hobby than they used to be, when a man owned 1 or 2 of them.
Now everyone wants, an AR, an AK, and optics that cost more than the gun, along with several of the same type of long guns and pistols.
It's our own doing, really, Every time I buy one, I say , "what the heck do I need this for again", when really I don't need it, I just want it.
If you can afford it along with everything else that goes before and after it, then it's fine to own as many as you want.
It's when you buy a gun instead of putting aside money for emergency's, or the kids dentist or doctor bill. That you have a problem.
The ammo is the real problem, and if you just go shoot a box a week, it isn't that big a deal. But gone are the days that you could stop in a few times a week and shoot a hundred rounds, "for most of us anyway", and the amount of ranges are shrinking because they don't make enough money to substantiate their use as a range, when they can build condo's or houses on that land.

 

[welldoya]

SkiKing, All I can say is you must be single and not have a family to be able to afford anything but the basic necessessities on $31K a year. Either that or you don't have a house or rental payment. It just doesn't add up.