Is gun ownership becoming a luxury?

[tarosean]

Any hobby is expensive now-a-days.

If you shoot a lot, ammo will surpass the price of the gun...

 

[Warp]

Northern Indiana isn't that special or different.

 

[Ignition Override]

How about no widescreen HD tv, but instead buy a gun and some ammo?
Then only a new tv would be a luxury.

An SKS or MN 91/30 plus a small case of ammo is not usually considered expensive.

 

[gym]

Because your wife and kids aren't going to shoot guns 7 days a week, but are going to watch the news weather and their shows and movies. There is no comparison to what get's more use. They aren't comparable on that level, apples and oranges.
When you wake up and want to see the news and weather, before hitting the road the gun isn't going to do you any good. Or when it's after dinner and you want to relax before turning in, same thing, your comparison is not a valid one. May as well compare it to the sink.

 

[skiking]

SkiKing, All I can say is you must be single and not have a family to be able to afford anything but the basic necessessities on $31K a year. Either that or you don't have a house or rental payment. It just doesn't add up.

I am single now but even when I was married, I still found money to do the things I love, and when you have an unemployed alcoholic wife, there isn't much money left for shooting but I still found a way, and at the time I was making less than I am now and paying more for rent. The vast majority of people I see living on my income have debt out their eyeballs and living like they make 3x as much money mostly by making irresponsible purchases, but complain about not being able to afford to do this or that. Nobody needs to drive a new car, have the newest this or that, or spend every weekend at the bar. We all set our priorities, put your family first by all means, but if somebody is 50+ lbs overweight* or have a $500/month car payment and credit card debt I feel no sympathy for them when they complain about ammo costs.

Yes the cost of everything is rising faster than wages are increasing. So is it any surprise that you can't afford as much ammo as you could back in 2006?

*I say this because I have never seen somebody >50 lbs overweight that didn't spend a startling amount of money on junk food with zero nutritional value.

My experiences are my own and have influenced my opinions, but they in no way are directed at any member of THR. If any member is offended my opinions, too bad for you.

 

[Reloadron]

Is gun ownership becoming a luxury?

The shooting sports can get costly but it can also be an inexpensive hobby. I guess like many sports and hobbies it depends on what you put into it. I really don't see shooting as a luxury sport or sport of kings.

I did find this to be humorous:

It looks to me like about the only people that can afford it these days are boomers. You know, the guys with all the Harleys. It wasn't like that 40 years ago.

We had a Harley riders group at the company I retired from last year. It consisted mainly of the newer engineering types in the 24 to 30 year old age group. Far from the baby boomers.

Some guys think nothing of buying a new golf club or set of clubs costing well over a grand or two. Since I don't play golf every now and then I buy myself a new (new to me anyway) gun. The guys who play golf think nothing of an annual golf trip down south for a week of golf, I prefer a week at the Knob Creek Range in Kentucky.

You shoot within your means. Just like any hobby you work within your means. You don't need a few grand in clubs to enjoy a game of golf anymore than you need a two thousand dollar rifle to enjoy an afternoon of shooting. My love of shooting goes back to 1958 and my first rifle. Then comes kids and family so beanies and weenies take precedence over guns and ammunition. Thousand dollar rifles were a mere dream as were joy rides to Knob Creek.

Shooting cost what you make it cost, no more and no less. It is far from a sport of kings and when you simply can't afford the hobby you set it aside till you can.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[MAKster]

Firearms today are less expensive in relation to average wages than at any time in history. You can thank the economics of mass production. During the Old West a Colt Peacemaker revolver cost the equivalent of one months wages. That would be like paying $3,000 for a Glock today. Most people could only afford to own one gun.

 

[hartcreek]

Priorities is exactly it. I live on SSI and SSDI and have internet and electricity an a phone but it is amazing how much money I have left since I have cut out spending on crap. I used to drink pop and eat ice cream......no more and I have lost #45 and now have more money for reloading.

 

[oneounceload]

If you shoot a lot, ammo will surpass the price of the gun...

And if you shoot competition shotgun, you need to add entry fees and the cost of targets as well. Now you're talking about $1 every time you pull the trigger./ One of my shotguns has right at 300,000 rounds through it over the last 20 years - that's a nicer house, new truck, a few cruises, etc. - but it is my hobby so that's where I spend the money

 

[huntsman]

Competition shooting is something I consider a luxury and that's why I won't partake, my view of firearms usage is basic. Long gun is for hunting and SD, handgun is for SD and hunting.

Anything other than maintaining one's skills is burning up ammo and a waste which leads to people(who can't afford it) to question the value of guns.

 

[bannockburn]

I would have to agree with the notion that shooting competitively would be more of a luxury activity versus general gun ownership when you add all the costs up. I don't believe that overall gun ownership (be it for concealed carry, home defense, casual target shooting, or hunting), is all that expensive or could be considered a luxury beyond the reach of most anyone.

 

[Reloadron]

I would have to agree with the notion that shooting competitively would be more of a luxury activity versus general gun ownership when you add all the costs up. I don't believe that overall gun ownership (be it for concealed carry, home defense, casual target shooting, or hunting), is all that expensive or could be considered a luxury beyond the reach of most anyone.

That would be the point I was trying to make earlier. Competitive shooting can get quite expensive. However, just plain shooting for the sheer enjoyment does not have to be expensive. So what is expensive? Well I figure it this way, $2,000 or $3,000 isn't a heck of a lot of money to invest in a hobby, unless of course you don't have $3,000 just laying around to invest. Then $3,000 is a heck of a lot of money.

Most shooters of modest means start simple. I can buy a used 22 rifle for a few hundred bucks and drag the thing out in a field with home brew targets and some ammunition for a few bucks. The only thing important here is I enjoy my time relaxing and shooting my rifle. I don't need a $2,000 Anshutz target rifle to have fun and relax. I can get a Remington 510P rifle for around $200 to start my hobby.

You shoot within your means and you work up. It really does not get any simpler than that.

Ron

 

[B!ngo]

This is a very interesting thread and I've been reading it closely.
But kwguy makes a great and subtle point here. My wife and I have done pretty well for ourselves. Although health issues have slowed my work productivity significantly over the last 5 or so years, we had sufficient success to put our kids through some good schools and store away enough funds to almost certainly deliver on a reasonable retirement.
But as a constant reader of this forum and others, I am fascinated by the number of comments people make referencing the rate at which they buy new handguns or rifles, the amount of ammunition they use at the range or elsewhere, or the amount of ammo and reloading equipment they have amassed in recent years.
Though these are not commonly considered 'collections' as they are not high-value firearms and thus they really aren't investments, they are an enormous outlay of discretionary funds that must be being diverted from elsewhere. Savings, housing, education, who knows? As referenced throughout this thread it is a matter of priority but I suspect there are some who just expect to be able to make these purchases, along with $400/month telecom bills (cable, internet, mobile), a car or two and other of the 'new world staples' that were not expected in earlier times against which some in this thread compare.
Probably best saved for a different post but as the worlds economies become more tied together those people who can and will do the same work for less will get that opportunity at the expense of those who expect more for same. The U.S. economy boomed when we could produce things that others simply couldn't or the complexity of world trade kept other competitive offerings outside of our borders. With more education parity, the internet exchanging data freely, and transportation making world trade efficient, the only way to regain the lifestyles that we look back on longingly is to differentiate us again from the rest of the world. Education, specialized design and manufacturing, jobs done more efficiently in our borders. And that is not a rail against our current government as this has been happening for a number of decades. It's a mindset and perspective that we all must adopt for our children to have a chance of being better off than we. If that fails, we are doomed.
B

Each generation has its own rules and difficulties. That never changes.

Back to firearms being a luxury, you get and shoot what you can afford. That's why manufacturers make so many different models. Take a look at some of the iron people use for fun today, like 3000 dollar AR's, firing a thousand rounds for a competition or something, and the awesome increases in the various shooting sports, and I'm sure there are some from the older generations that would think folks are nuts for 'blowing' so much money and ammo on such a thing.

That's no more a luxury than being able to afford a $100,000 car is to some. But, you can also buy a less expensive car, just like you can a firearm.

 

[CoalTrain49]

But as a constant reader of this forum and others, I am fascinated by the number of comments people make referencing the rate at which they buy new handguns or rifles, the amount of ammunition they use at the range or elsewhere, or the amount of ammo and reloading equipment they have amassed in recent years.

Though these are not commonly considered 'collections' as they are not high-value firearms and thus they really aren't investments, they are an enormous outlay of discretionary funds that must be being diverted from elsewhere. Savings, housing, education, who knows? As referenced throughout this thread it is a matter of priority but I suspect there are some who just expect to be able to make these purchases, along with $400/month telecom bills (cable, internet, mobile), a car or two and other of the 'new world staples' that were not expected in earlier times against which some in this thread compare.

And that is my point exactly.

The dollar buys less every year. The average person in the US makes less every year because his/her income does not keep pace with the increased costs of the things they have to pay for like housing, phone, food, and transportation. Here's a look at what is happening with your income. This is one of the reasons I retired, I was making less every year. I realize some people have the resources to play more than others but this has to be a drain on the sport or hobby or whatever you want to call it.

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums...d-median-income-by-age-bracket-2012-table.gif

Sorry, I couldn't get an image up.

 

[tarosean]

Quote:
If you shoot a lot, ammo will surpass the price of the gun...
And if you shoot competition shotgun, you need to add entry fees and the cost of targets as well.

I don't count entry fees.. It falls under personal entertainment for me, as it generally costs less than taking the family to the movies and lasts a lot longer.. ( club matches)

 

[itsa pain]

All these fees and taxes are part of what makes gun control a racist establishment. I think the theory is if you keep poor people from owning guns, they can't rob rich people. That's a crass way of putting it, but if your options are $100 for suitable clothes for an interview or $100 for a cheap pistol, you can buy the pistol and rob a store, and have more than $100 for the clothes and then some for whatever else you want. I disagree with that, but I think that's why people vote for bans on cheap firearms.

The real issue is this: defense control (because historically it's been edged weapons, sword length, whether or not you can learn martial arts) is about disarming the lower castes. Adding fees that are barely noticed by the rich, a bottleneck for middle class, and essentially a ban for low class sets up a caste system where you have no guns on the bottom, a few guns in the middle, and the most guns on top.

This all sounds classist, so how is it racist? Because of the demographics of upper class vs. lower class. A larger amount of minorities are in the lower class than upper class, which means legislation that limits the rights of the lower class hurts minorities more than it does whites.

There are more lower class whites then minorities. Connecting this to racism is another suicidal way to lose freedom. 90% of people going around making a living screaming racism are the type that hate this country the founding fathers and Western Civilization

 

[leadcounsel]

Think back 100 years. Homes were tiny. New stuff was rare.

Compare your standard of living, life expectancy, medical care, and stuff versus ancestors. Our 'necessities' like cable, new cars, new phones, season tickets, international trips, etc were uncommon or unheard of back then... we have so much...

Take an honest assessment ... we've all got it better than the average person of prior generations,

Guns, cheaper, more plentiful, and simple to acquire. Internet means you can order anything instantly...

 

[R.W.Dale]

Think back 100 years. Homes were tiny. New stuff was rare.

Compare your standard of living, life expectancy, medical care, and stuff versus ancestors. Our 'necessities' like cable, new cars, new phones, season tickets, international trips, etc were uncommon or unheard of back then... we have so much...

Take an honest assessment ... we've all got it better than the average person of prior generations,

QUOTE]


That's the problem

Yes we have it better than sharecroppers and factory workers living in slums 100yrs ago.

But do we have it better than our parents and grandparents 25-50 years ago. That's a resounding NO

The standard of living IS absolutely going backwards and has been for long enough to be a trend. Younger working folks don't take international trips or have season tickets those are the baby boomers who you see doing that

That's the crux of my rant. The baby boomers and the folks running the show don't have a clue as to what it's like to raid a family in the post Clinton world. But it won't stop them from believing they have a clue, acting like they have a clue or even telling you they have a clue.

To add insult to injury O-care is kicking in making us buy worthless insurance we don't need further decreasing what we have to get by on in order to make things easier on an older generation unwilling to care for themselves. It's almost like SSI part2

 

[Joe Demko]

I agree about the changing standard of living. Most of my dad's generation entered the workforce straight out of high school. They owned homes, includindg summer houses/hunting camps, bought new cars, took vacations, and raised families on what they made at mostly blue collar jobs. I don't live as well, overall, as those guys did. Today's young people aren't doing as well as I did at their age and probably won't ever catch up.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I agree about the changing standard of living. Most of my dad's generation entered the workforce straight out of high school. They owned homes, includindg summer houses/hunting camps, bought new cars, took vacations, and raised families on what they made at mostly blue collar jobs. I don't live as well, overall, as those guys did. Today's young people aren't doing as well as I did at their age and probably won't ever catch up.

Right!! and doing without cable or a cheap cell phone bill (as if you can get by as a employee without one these days) is hardly going to be a standard of life changing event that's all of a sudden going to allow you to buy a house on a large plot of acreage, pay cash for a new truck and support a family with a stay at home spouce all while only working 40hours a week.

Wether or not they will admit it but boomers had and still have it EASY

they worked jobs that no longer exist.

They're on retirements that no longer exist

They bought cheap housing, land and cars that no longer exist

They get health care paid for that will not exist in a few years

They're drawing OUR payroll deductions into SSI which will not exist in a few years

They drove around on roads and infrastructure quickly ceasing to exist


But dammit if it weren't for cell phones we could live just like them (sarcasm)

 

[larryh1108]

A large part of the problem is the increased expenses of the electronic media that wasn't present a generation ago. The money spent on a bundle of internet cell phones, cable, wi-fi, computers, interactive video game modules, etc. cost as much as a mortgage a generation ago. Today, kids turn 18, get a credt card and load it up with luxuries they think are necessities. A generation ago it was a goal to move out at 18 or 20 and start your life with a job and your own place. Now, it's mom's basement until 30+. Student loans bury a student before he even moves out. Yes, we don't have the same standard of living as a generation ago but we have more stuff and more debt than ever before.

 

[AlexanderA]

Speaking as a collector, I have to say that the gun collecting game has changed a lot over the last 40 or 50 years. (I bought my first Thompson in 1975, for $750 plus the $200 NFA tax. That same gun would be worth $20,000 or more today.) When I go to the big gun collector shows, all I see are sky-high prices. I therefore conclude that the people doing the buying at these shows either (a) are wealthy, or (b) are older collectors who already have substantial collections and are trading between themselves with little money actually changing hands. If you're not rich or old, it's very difficult to start a worthwhile gun collection today. Sure, you can buy an M1 Garand or two, but that's not what I would call a meaningful "collection."

 

[CoalTrain49]

Wether or not they will admit it but boomers had and still have it EASY

they worked jobs that no longer exist.

They're on retirements that no longer exist

They bought cheap housing, land and cars that no longer exist

They get health care paid for that will not exist in a few years

They're drawing OUR payroll deductions into SSI which will not exist in a few years

They drove around on roads and infrastructure quickly ceasing to exist

That sounds about right. I'm a boomer and I will admit that our generation will be the most prosperous of the 21st century. The stats of the last 14 years are already proving that to be true. I had a good run, good job, good benefits, good retirement, no debt, and we spend our winters in a warm climate and our summers in a cool one. I wasn't careless with my money and I made some good investments along the way, but I had the money to invest. The generation behind me isn't doing that well, and the generation behind them even less so.

Here are some facts to support this.

http://www.immersionactive.com/resources/50-plus-facts-and-fiction/

Prosperity is becoming harder to grasp for everyone and more things become luxuries as time goes by.

 

[itsa pain]

Priorities is exactly it. I live on SSI and SSDI and have internet and electricity an a phone but it is amazing how much money I have left since I have cut out spending on crap. I used to drink pop and eat ice cream......no more and I have lost #45 and now have more money for reloading.

It is amazing the amount of people drawing all this money from working stiffs and it adds a lot of inflation to the economy from the ripple effect. It cannot be sustained much longer

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Honestly, I consider anything besides clothing, food, shelter, and water to be luxuries as those are the basic things a person needs to survive in most societies.

There are a few things I've noticed though. As others have pointed out, expenses, the job market and education have changed in the world quite a bit. However, I'm 33 years old and a college graduate and I can honestly say that when in school, I remember meeting a lot of people who were studying areas that while they were interesting, would not practically lead to a well paying career. Philosophy, art, and sociology come to mind. I mean no offense to those folks, but what were those people thinking they were going to get for a job later on. Then there are student loans of huge amounts added on to daily expenses.

Also, I meet a shocking number of people in my generation who have no idea at all how to manage money. They are of the credit card crowd and do not live within their means. So I do think gun ownership in general is a luxury, and even more so for people who don't understand basic finances.