is gunfight reloading a necessary skill?

[The Rabbi]

Are reloads important? Ask Trooper Philip Lamonco or Highway Patrolman James Pence or Special Agent John Hanlon; all shot while reloading.

That doesnt appear to be what happened to Pence, based on this:
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/newhall.html
That was 35 years ago.

Or Philip Lamonaco, assuming this is the same guy
http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=7835
That was also 26 years ago. He appears to have been killed in a traffic stop.

Or John Hanlon, part of the most celebrated shooting in the 20thC, the Miami FBI firefight. Note that he had reloaded, using his Chief's Special as the reload. He had lost his primary weapon earlier.
And that was 19 years ago.

Do you want to spend time practicing for things that come up once or twice every 20 years? And as far as the last 5 rounds shot at 100 yards, while there is little harm in doing that, there is little good too. No one is going to be proficient with that sort of practice.
Far be it for me to tell people not to practice certain skills if they think its important and it makes them feel better. But I sure wouldnt go around telling people their lives depend on it.

 

[loudernhel]

"The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable."

-Sun Tzu
The Art of War

 

[sssteinkamp]

Do you want to spend time practicing for things that come up once or twice every 20 years?

If I thought like that, I wouldn't carry a weapon at all. I mean, statistically I'll never need a weapon at all. What's the point, eh?

I'll stick with Sun Tzu...

Shane

 

[GRB]

I want to spend time training on things that may happen only every 20 years, you bet I do. In 26 years as a federal officer/agent, I have shot one guy and, that was while I was off duty. Should I stop carrying a gun on my job because I never shot anyone while at work. Should I stop training in how to shoot because shooting events like that are so infrequent. You belittle the importance of knowing how to do something based upon the infrequency of its occurrence, yet when the need does arise that requires such a skill the thing about it is that your life may well depend upon it. I choose to learn the thing because it may wind up being of ultimate import in keeping me alive. So yes I train for things that may only happen even just once in a lifetime because I do not want to wind up with my name on some fallen heroes' monument somewhere.

As to the 100 yard pistol shot, if I have to shoot a man sized moving target at 100 yards, the much greater chance is that I will be able to do something else to help me survive such as run away, using cover and concealment; or if I need to I can get closer to the target, or I can try the shot. I would stand a decent chance of hitting my target. Guess why - because I train for it. (Maybe that is why I practice sometimes at 90- 100 yards). If on the other hand, I run out of ammunition in the middle of a firefight and I do not know how to quickly and efficiently reload and re-engage or, if I do not have spare ammunition with which to reload (perish the thought), then my pistol amounts to a club at best. Maybe effective, maybe not. You pick it. Many people choose not to carry spare magazines/ammunition, I am not one of them. I carry at least two extra mags with me at virtually all times that I am armed with a pistol.

As to the great expense in time and money - Oh the time and the money I spend, to cycle through several styles of reloading each time I shoot, are killing my bank account and all my free time - NOT. It takes little effort to devote a different reloading drill or three to a regular day of shooting. Learning how to reload under various tactical conditions is a basic part of learning how to prepare for combat type shooting. Note, I am not referring to the oft maligned use of the term Tactical Reload to only mean a swap a full mag for a partial mag reload that you do in the lull of action, I mean tactical reload to its truest sense, a reload in any stage of a combat situation. So it covers reloading during a lull, or reloading during the height of combat dependent upon your need to reload. It covers a mag swap, a reload of an empty weapon, or of a jammed weapon from which you had to drop the mag.

I will keep practicing as many skills as I can that will help me to survive should the time come that I am called upon to perform them. You can practice what you want, and leave out what you want. I wonder what the bad guys are practicing? I also wonder how many years have you been carrying a gun and not needed to reload during a tactical situation. If it is getting close to 20 years, then by your own logic maybe you had better start learning real soon. As for me, I don't have to worry about whether or not I know how to do it should the unlikely befall me. Within reasonable limits, which include the ability to train for such, I am ready for it now. The boy scouts have a couple of good words for it: Be Prepared. I choose to be prepared to be a winner, not a name on a fallen heroes' monument.

ps: Rabbi - no more from me on this, nothing personal and I would like to keep it that way, I'll read what yoy say but don't want to get carried away in a personal argument. I understand your point, we just don't agree.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Blackhawk 6]

Rabbi,

Patrolman Pence was killed by Twinning as he was reloading.

Trooper Lamonaco was killed as he was reloading. His death served as a catalyst for the adoption of semi-automatic pistols by the NJSP.

Special Agent Hanlon was shot as he was reloading his Chief's Special. (Incidentally, Special Agent McNeill was executing a one-handed reload when he was shot.)

Three examples where reloading was a necessary skill in a gunfight. Three examples selected for their notoriety and the bearing on the issue at hand. To believe they are the only three is naive.

And as far as the last 5 rounds shot at 100 yards, while there is little harm in doing that, there is little good too. No one is going to be proficient with that sort of practice.

Three range sessions had me hitting a pepper-popper five for five single-action at 135 yards. Five had me going three out of five double-action. YMMV.

In any case, you seem content to focus on a specific set of skills. If that is what works for you, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Jeff22]

Reloading in a Gunfight

NYPD Officer Scott Gadel was killed in a gunfight in 1985 while trying to reload his revolver. He was behind cover and a suspect charged him and killed him while he was trying to reload from dump pouches.

His death prompted NYPD to authorize speedloaders for duty use. (Welcome to the 1980s!) and indirectly influenced the subsequent selection of auto pistols for service use.

The "normal" dynamic of a police or citizen involved gunfight involve a brief exchange of fire at close range in dim light. The survivors then flee or retreat to cover. The well trained and well prepared will reload. Normally, the fight doesn't continue after the initial barrage, but it very well could, and one should be prepared.

 

[The Rabbi]

The thread dealt with tac reloads. My feeling is, if your gun is functioning and you have ammo and are under threat, then why arent you shooting?

There was a bank robbery in Brentwood, just south of Nashville. Officer comes up on the suspects in heavy traffic as they are shooting it out with other officers. She gets out of the car and goes to the front. She draws her weapon, a Glock, and fires three or four rounds. First round is premature and she hits her windshield. I dont know where the next rounds go. She then decides to execute a tac reload and fumbles with it. Meanwhile the robbers are still shooting. Her car is moving towards her (no brake and no park) and she ends up scooting out of the way. When she went to reload she still had probably 10 rounds in the gun. I guess she was trained to do tac reloads or something. She was sure wasnt trained to focus on the target or make swift accurate shots. S he's lucky she wasnt shot herself.

 

[GEM]

Rabbi, do you have a source for that incident? I would like to use it.
Thanks.

 

[kbheiner7]

1. Awareness and situation assessment

2. Cover and means of egress

3. Ability to incapacitate BGs in order of immediate threat - this may or may not include reloading.

Most of the time, it won't. Reloading is pretty far down the "what if" list. Still, as has been mentioned, it is the "what ifs" in life most of us CCW for. Might as well be prepared.

I believe that tactical reloads are bunk 99% of the time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi, do you have a source for that incident? I would like to use it.

http://www.cji.net/CJI/CenterInfo/lemc/library/Descriptions/Brentwood.htm

You can at least order the video. I am not sure it is worth it but if you want to see what happens when cops dont get good training this is certainly it.

 

[GEM]

Thanks, Rabbi!

 

[buzz_knox]

The funny thing is that reloading, along with practicing one's drawstroke, is a prime example of a skill that requires minimal time per day and absolutely no money to master. Have someone show you the right way of doing it, and then practice a few minutes each day in the comfort of your own home, and you've got it.

 

[Burt Blade]

When on the practice range, make a habit of reloading your pistol as if you were in a fight. Try ducking below the bench for "cover", tac reloads, "dump and slam", any reloading method that may be applicable to what you perceive as possible. Make reloading as natural as using the sights and you won’t have to worry about it in a fight. Many ranges discourage this sort of thing, but you can always load _quickly_, and then wait for the command to fire.

Handle and manipulate your firearms frequently, and they become an extension of your hand. You take all those tasks out of the conscious, planning, observing part of the brain, and free it for paying attention to the situation and whacking the troll.

 

[Risasi]

When on the practice range, make a habit of reloading your pistol as if you were in a fight. Try ducking below the bench for "cover", tac reloads, "dump and slam", any reloading method that may be applicable to what you perceive as possible. Make reloading as natural as using the sights and you won’t have to worry about it in a fight. Many ranges discourage this sort of thing, but you can always load _quickly_, and then wait for the command to fire.

Handle and manipulate your firearms frequently, and they become an extension of your hand. You take all those tasks out of the conscious, planning, observing part of the brain, and free it for paying attention to the situation and whacking the troll.

Amen to this. Practice, repetition. The keys to learning. This is why I try to get to the range every other week, and try to put 500-1000 rounds downrange each range session. This is also why I bought a .22 conv kit and many mags for my 1911's.

 

[longtooth]

Reload practice

I don't remember the exact # of "average rounds fired" when a weapon is used for defense but I think it was around 3. That does not validate the excuse to not practice reloading. The reason for the above # is that when shooting starst most BG's take off. Real problem starts when they decide to stay & fight. Seems to me that there is not much middle ground on # of rounds fired. If the BG's stay & fight then there is a lot of brass on the ground instead of 7, 8, or 10. Most of us will never have to draw a weapon. Few of us will have to use one. I hope I remain in the majority that practices & never finds out if it was enough. But if the time comes I want access, presentation, on center mass, fire, visually sweep area for more trouble, & RELOAD, to be 2nd nature instead of think about it & fumble. :banghead: They that love liberty more than life will die only once. They that fear death more than oppression die every time they close their eyes. Me.

 

[bcochran]

reloads important

Not really in the big scheme of things.

As a current student, you have already decided not to go into the military or law enforcement; occupations that induce you to learn how to reload.

You will probably die of circulatory disease anyhow. In fact, when you think about it, you really don't need to pay for training classes or even own a gun. The chances of you having a life threatening encounter are probably pretty remote.

Similarly, you don't need to learn how to swim. The chances of you being in a car accident and going into a canal or a boating accident are very slight.

Going further, you really don't need to know how to cook a meal, light a fire, iron clothes. Most of the guys who came into my infantry company had managed to live 18 plus years without learning. Of course, they had a rough time for awhile because they didn't have those skills. :banghead:

By the same stretch, don't study anything in school that you don't anticipate that you will use. Don't study psychology or sociology because you won't become a psychologist or sociologist.

I am not kidding in the above.

If you have a life threatening encounter, it will be in low light or at night. So for a cheap $15 buy welder's goggles and shoot at an indoor range at a target where you can't see the holes in the target at 20 feet, where you can't see your gun to insert a magazine, when you put your gun down, you can't see it on the table. Do that and come back and ask yourself whether you need to practice reloading or changing magazines. If you don't do this little exercise, then ask yourself if you intend to have shooting encounters only in the daylight or a well lit room. :banghead:

 

[GRB]

If you have a life threatening encounter, it will be in low light or at night. So for a cheap $15 buy welder's goggles and shoot at an indoor range at a target where you can't see the holes in the target at 20 feet, where you can't see your gun to insert a magazine, when you put your gun down, you can't see it on the table. Do that and come back and ask yourself whether you need to practice reloading or changing magazines. If you don't do this little exercise, then ask yourself if you intend to have shooting encounters only in the daylight or a well lit room.

In do not think that welders glasses are suitable for low light shooting and, it can be quite dangerous to wear these at a range while shooting, reloading and so on. If you cannot see a target, be it in the nighttime or daytime, then at what are you shooting. Low light training should be performed under just the conditions for which the training is named - LOW LIGHT - not blindness. I realize that welders glasses will allow you to see in bright daylight, about 5 minutes after you put them on, but they are unrealistic and if there is not enough ambient lighting you will not be able to see sufficiently to shoot or operate the firearm safely. It is better to shoot at a range in low light conditions than to use the welders glasses. Again - if you cannot see your target, then at what are you shooting? Remember we are talking about legal shooting on these forums by permit holders and LEOs. We are not talking spray and pray military tactics on a pitch black, smoke filled battlefield where the rules of engagement are much different than here at home.

All the best,
GB

 

[bcochran]

Welder's Googles

Glenn has some good points and I will respond.


If you want to posit that some person is going to go to a range and make things pitch black for himself, then you are right. However, once people understand that welder's goggles have replacable eye inserts of varying darkness, you have a different situation. There are clear welder's inserts. Then they get progressively darker.

How many people shoot and look for the holes on the target while they are shooting. Oh come on. Most people do. If you assume not, then do an ultra safe experiment. Go to an indoor range. Make sure no one else is there. Stand behind the shooter. Now you are set up. Have him wear safety glasses and shoot rapid fire at 20 feet. Then, being ultra safe, have him try on welder's goggles until he cannot see the holes in the target at 20 feet.

Now have him shoot as rapidly. If his accuracy falls off, he was looking at the holes in the target. You don't have a stationery target off the range. You rely on technique.


"If you cannot see your target what are you shooting at?"

Suppose that you are not on the range. Further suppose that you are wanting to engage a lifethreatening threat. Don't waiver from those two antecedent criteria when following this thought. As you go through progressively darker welder's lens inserts, you have less and less distinction of the target. You start thinking about how you engage? Where do you shoot? When do you withhold fire for tactical reasons? What about your sights? What is your point of aim? Do you shift your point of aim because of the indistinctiveness?

You want to do the foregoing in your practice before you are off the range, not shooting at a stationery target at a known distance. Ok, so don't. Learn when you are in a critical situation.

Reloading. Ok. Everyone parrots the standard line to keep your eyes on the threat when shooting. Well, a stationery target on a public gun range is not a threat, so take your eyes off the target when you reload on a public range. For those who want to have a self check on whether you take your eyes off the threat off the range, how do you do it. Make it so dark that it doesn't help to do a reload by looking at the gun. Don't want to wear welder's goggles on a range. Ok. Go home. Lock yourself in a room. Make sure the gun is safe. Get dummy rounds. Or get dummy replacement magazines. Buy an insert to put in your pistol barrel to make sure nothing will chamber or a combination of the above. Now put on welder's goggles with progressively darker lens inserts. Practice. Gee whiz, I bet you will find that you were taking your eyes off of the imaginary threat while reloading.

My point was the same as Glenn's. If you are going to shoot in broad daylight on a public range at a stationery target and you are stationery and the target doesn't shoot back, then don't bother learning how to reload. You don't need the skill. It is your life.


Spray and pray tactics comment, etc. I belong to two ranges. One is indoor. No fast draw, no rapid fire, no strong arm retention or hip shooting, stationery targets, separate lanes and so forth. I have express permission to use welder's goggles. The second range is outdoors. Locked facility. No limitation on fast draw, runnning and shooting, walking and shooting, going 360 degrees, shooting any weapon which you can legally own and use, night time shooting, multiple target shooting. I am an NRA certified Rangemaster as well. I follow the rules. I have witnessed NGs, people shooting themselves right in front of me (like an LAPD officer as one example). I have attended a number of structure clearing classes in lowlight, pitch black darkeness, hostage situations. I don't spray and pray. People who don't receive competent training from competent instructors do spray and pray.
So, I guess I have to do a disclaimer.

If you are intoxicated, on drugs, don't know one end of a weapon from the other, have no knowledge of the operation of your firearm, intend to violate range rules, don't know how to put a magazine into a firearm, have a police arrest record, are reckless, don't know to keep the muzzle of the firearm down range at all times,upset with your wife, or a general klutz, please disregard my suggestion about using welder's goggles.

Incidentally Glenn. One day I am at a public range with all of the safety features in place. I see a slight guy with a new, cheap handgun purchase on the table, the receipt, and two boxes of ammo. He has the target in hand. He is looking around furtively. There is live firing going on. I know what is troubling him. I tap him on the shoulder and tell him to wait until there is a cease fire and he will be allowed to go out and put up his target. He expresses his relief. He was intending to run out and put up his target. If people want to abandon common sense, there isn't much you can do about it.

 

[Blackhawk 6]

If you have a life threatening encounter, it will be in low light or at night.

Not necessarily. Statistically, the majority of armed encounters may occur in low-light or at night, but certainly not all. Being prepared means being capable in operating under all of lighting conditions. I do concur with the point that people need to do more low-light practice.

Everyone parrots the standard line to keep your eyes on the threat when shooting.

I never understood this advice. I fail to understand what it is that the threat might be doing that is so significant that it requires the focus of my attention. If I am reloading I want to get my gun back into action as quickly as possible, especially when under stress. Watching what I am doing facilitates the rapid reload. I have not had a problem tracking the movement of a threat with my peripheral vision while doing so.

I am missing the significance the addition of the welder's goggles add to the training session. Is the intent to replicate low-light conditions, prevent me from observing the hits on a target or something else?

If the goal is to replicate low-light conditions, I would submit they are of limited value as you can not mitigate their effect as you would in actual low-light conditions-with a flashlight. As replicating low-light conditions is not at all difficult, I fail to see the value. I would certainly be interested if there is something I have overlooked.

I do not look at my target for hits while shooting nor do I adjust my shooting based on them. A brief poll of some of my co-workers yeilded similar results. Perhaps we are strange and were ignorant of a widespread problem.

 

[GRB]

bcochran

My points were that it is much better to do so without the goggles by shooting in actual low light situations at the range. This is easily accomplished especially on an outdoor range or an indoor range with controllable lighting. The important thing though is that you do not shoot at something you cannot see. The risk is too great to wound or kill an innocent.

Suppose that you are not on the range. Further suppose that you are wanting to engage a life threatening threat. Don’t waiver from those two antecedent criteria when following this thought.

It does not matter how you put it, I am not shooting, in almost every circumstance, if I cannot see my target in any type of civilian type shooting encounter. There may be a time or two when I would decide to do so, but that would be a decision made on based on the totality of the circumstances. Near blindness caused by it being almost pitch black would probably not qualify as a condition under which I would shoot at someone.

Back to those lenses, they do not mimic low light shooting well enough for me to ever want to use them. My agency used them for a while and determined much the same, they were and are not the way to practice low light shooting, actual low light conditions being better and much more realistic. They do not cause shadows such as would a street lamp, they do not allow for almost any peripheral vision, they do not allow muzzle flash to effect the shooter (this is something everyone should learn about while shooting under actual low light conditions, and a good reason to aim with only one eye at night keeping the other closed - helps saves your night vision in at least one eye).

We certainly agree on the importance of learning how to shoot and operate a firearm in low light conditions, I guess we just don't agree on the method. I will admit, if you absolutely cannot get a chance to shoot in actual low light conditions, then those glasses might be ok.

Blackhawk,

I never understood this advice. I fail to understand what it is that the threat might be doing that is so significant that it requires the focus of my attention. If I am reloading I want to get my gun back into action as quickly as possible, especially when under stress. Watching what I am doing facilitates the rapid reload. I have not had a problem tracking the movement of a threat with my peripheral vision while doing so.

If you want to take your eyes off of the threat it should only be for a quick scan to see if there is an additional threat or threats and, to avoid tunnel vision. Watching the threat is much more important that looking at your mag pouch to pull out a mag, then looking at the gun to hit the mag release, then looking at the gun and mag to make sure they connect. If you combat reload or tactically reload (using what I believe to be the much maligned meaning of this phrase) correctly, the gun is almost always in front of you, up at shooting level, combat ready as soon as the fresh mag goes into it. You are focused on the immediate threat or scanning the immediate threats. If one threat, you do not have to refocus or search for the target to be able to shoot at the target. Any looking at it reloading is done with peripheral vision while you are intent on scanning for threats, unless maybe you are trying to clear a tough jam and then reload. Even then, while you may have to look at it to figure what went wrong, once you clear it you do not watch yourself reload, you look to the threat as you are reloading.

You may think you can sufficiently follow a threat with peripheral vision but, you cannot see what the threat is doing sufficiently with peripheral vision to ascertain whether or not: it is still a threat or the threat has increased or the threat is the same. You can miss a lot of things with only peripheral vision and every person's blind spot is peripheral (yes we all have an area in our peripheral vision where if a threat comes at you down that funnel, you may not see it). I wish I could recall how to demonstrate this to you, there is a way but, it is taught too few times even in tactical schools. I learned about it maybe 20 years ago, I was absolutely dumbfounded when it was shown to me that I have a blind spot/zone for both of my eyes; I just did not believe it until they showed me (no pun intended).The threat(s) is (are) what will kill you, that is why you keep an eye on it or on them, and scan for others when you can. So if you can reload without looking all the better for you.

All the best,
GlennB

 

[GRB]

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/blindspot.htmlThe blind spot is a good reason not to trust peripheral vision and also a good reason not to stare at a threat without scanning for others. If your eyes are locked on the gun while reloading you may not see a threat approach in the blind spot alley/funnel. Learn how to reload while looking at the threat and scanning for others - not while looking at your gun.

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/blindspot.html

If you try the test on the link above you will see what I mean. It may take a few seconds or even a minute, but sooner or later the right dot disappears. Your blind spot extends out at the same angle to further distances.

Heck I just made my finger disappear in a similar test. Scary.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Blackhawk 6]

Glenn,

Thanks for the detailed reply. It is nice to discuss the finer points of reloading. A couple of points on which I differ:

Watching the threat is much more important that looking at your mag pouch to pull out a mag, then looking at the gun to hit the mag release, then looking at the gun and mag to make sure they connect. If you combat reload or tactically reload (using what I believe to be the much maligned meaning of this phrase) correctly, the gun is almost always in front of you, up at shooting level, combat ready as soon as the fresh mag goes into it.

I do not look at my mag pouch or my magazine release. I do watch the magazine go into the pistol. Other than that my reload is as you describe it.

You may think you can sufficiently follow a threat with peripheral vision but, you cannot see what the threat is doing sufficiently with peripheral vision to ascertain whether or not: it is still a threat or the threat has increased or the threat is the same.

Perhaps I am dense, but I continue to fail to understand what is going on in the second I took my eyes of the threat that is so important that it takes priority over getting my weapon back into action. At the point where a fresh magazine is inserted into my weapon, I am in a position very close, if not identical, to my ready position. Whether or not he is still a threat will be ascertained from there. If he is no longer a threat then there certainly was not any reason to keep watching him; if he was that is all the more reason to expedite the reload. If I just emptied my weapon in an effort to deal with the threat, I fail to understand how he is going to become more dangerous. If the threat is the same that requires no change on my part.

It seems to me that by keeping a focus on the threat you are increasing the amount of information you need to process. We have a saying "If your focus is everywhere, your focus is nowhere."

I appreciate the fact that the threat is what is going to kill me. I have very little interest in watching it happen but I am immensly interested in preventing it. In my expereince that equates to making your weapon operational as quickly as possible.

 

[Blackhawk 6]

The blind spot is a good reason not to trust peripheral vision and also a good reason not to stare at a threat without scanning for others. If your eyes are locked on the gun while reloading you may not see a threat approach in the blind spot alley/funnel.

Alright, we have now introduced a new element into the equation, the previously unidentified adversary.

Here is my view point. Let's say a guy armed with a pistol and I have been shooting at one another and I need to reload. I have two known problems: A. There is a guy trying to kill me and B. My gun is at slidelock.I also have a plethora of potential problems which include other bad guys.

It seems reasonable to me that I should probably deal with what I know to be a problem rather than worry about a problem that may or may not be there. Of the two known problems I have, solving Problem B is probably the fastest way to solve Problem A. Given the gravity of Problem A, Problem B needs to be solved now. If the guy with the pistol drops it while I am in mid-reload, so what? I am not going to reload any slower. If he suddenly upgrades to an RPG-7, I am already reloading as fast as I can. If he still has a pistol when I am done reloading then all is going according to plan.

Please do not misunderstand me. Scanning for other potential threats is important. But it should not take precedence over dealing with a known threat. It is appropriate once we have eliminated the immediacy of the known threat.

I whole-heartedly agree that peripheral vision is not perfect but it will be relied upon. How will you locate a piece of cover? Will you take your eyes off of the threat, consciously scan the area, locate cover and then reacquire the threat? How will you keep from tripping over a curb? How will you track more than just a single threat? The location of a companion? The location of innocent bystanders? How will you keep from being run over by a vehicle in a parking lot or in a street.

Imperfect as it may be, peripheral vision is a key component to maintaining situational awareness.

 

[GRB]

The fastest way to reload that I know of does not require me taking my eyes off of the target, this includes pistol/magazine, revolver/speedloader, revolver from loops or pouch, shotgun, or an MP-5. I am 49 years old and not as quick as I once was but, I can reload faster than at least 75 - 85 % (if not more) of those with whom I work and train and; I never look directly at the gun or ammo while doing so if I can avoid it.

Whether or not you think you have disabled a bad guy you should be looking at him as much as possible (note I said as much as possible) and should be doing a quick scan for more bad guys & good guys every now and again, and should be assessing the whole of the situation as it happens (the only reasons to ever take your eyes off of a threat until you are certain it is neutralized). The fact is that very many, if not most, armed assaults include more than one bad guy. The short amount of time it takes you too watch your gun as you reload is enough time for lots of bad things to happen. You may think you have disabled a bad guy by shooting all 16 rounds in your pistol at him because he went ugh and went down and dropped his gun. As you refocus on your gun, the bad guy who was wearing body armor, sees you do so, grabs for another gun and comes up firing. Would you really be ready if your focus was on your gun instead of on him? Would you be reacting to his firing or to his focusing on you - which would be better, which would be possible if you were looking at your gun instead of at him.

There are also other concerns. This can include a new threat popping up, one of which you should be aware. It could also be an LEO arriving on the scene gun drawn without announcing him/herself. It could be the need to seek cover or better cover and distance. If you were not behind cover when you unloaded your mag at the bad guy shame on, or unlucky for, you but make for it now as you reload. Your eyes should not be on the gun but should be scanning for threats, scanning for cover, assessing the whole situation.

As far as taking your eyes off of an immediate threat in order to scan, yes sometimes that is what is called for. If you shoot a gun and are confident that you hit him, he may or may not still be a threat. You may think you have only to have eyes for him. The thing is though that if you are behind cover as you hopefully would be you then scan rapidly for other threats. There could be one even more immediate of which you are unaware because you have locked into tunnel vision. It happens and it kills. I never meant to imply you keep your eyes glued on the one threat, you have to know when you can or should scan the area for more or, you have to know when to scan for cover or better cover all the while trying to get distance and cover between you and the bad guy.

The only time I have shot a bad guy (actually shot not just shot at), he was right in front of me holding what I thought was a sawed off rifle. He told me don't move m----- f---er. I moved, I shot him. As soon as I shot I scanned to my right because that is where the car was that this guy had just exited and because a voice inside my head (yes my own voice) was screaming at me that I should not get tunnel vision. Well as I scanned, all of a sudden there was that car, with a guy in it. His accomplice was trying to get out of the car with a revolver in his hand. I put one in the windshield at head level, the guy in the car took off in reverse. I immediately came back on target one who was bent over trying to get into the car just as it sped off. He ran after the car and the other guy waited, they took off. I was ok.

I never aimed my first shot (it connected). My second shot was point shooting it did the job. What would have happened if I had taken time to actually aim (it was pretty dark, so sort of the same time it would take to look while I reload)? What would have happened had I just looked at the immediate threat. I don't know but I can tell you what I do know. While I was looking at the first threat and assessing him, all I saw was the gun he was holding because I looked for his hands. I knew there was another guy in the car which was only about a foot or two to the right of bad guy number 1 but, the whole car had disappeared. Not because of any blind spot I think but because of tunnel vision. Although it was, or should have been in my peripheral vision it literally had disappeared from my sight. Tunnel vision is an automatic bodily response to an immediate threat. I shot I scanned, tunnel vision was destroyed as soon as I moved my eyes toward the other possible threat and, while I focused on him I still had the bad guy number 1 in my peripheral vision and I focused back on him as soon as the second shot went off. If you focus on your gun to reload, you may actually develop tunnel vision on your gun as you concentrate your visual focus, physical ability and mental ability on reloading it. This would be a very bad thing tactically. I only broke my tunnel vision by scanning back and forth between the threats. It seemed like an eternity but was probably only a moment.

While all this was happening there were two other things that happened that scared me as much as the bad guys. I do not like to think about them because they are very scary for me. They show how the mind can play tricks on you under stress. For a moment, as I looked at the threat's hands, I thought bad guy number 1 was holding a soda bottle like a gun. I swear that for a moment that seemed like an eternity as I focused on his hands and the 'gun" I saw its metal finely threaded end with 30 caliber sized hole turn into a plastic soda bottle. I felt relief and then heard a booming voice command me "Its a gun FIRE". It was my voice inside my head, my training telling me to shoot and not to aim, just to shoot. I shot almost as soon as I cleared leather. Then, as soon as I shot, I thought my gun had malfunctioned - crap it breaks me up as I write because I thought that was it for me. I did not look at my gun except as I brought it up on the second target as I scanned right. I think I tapped but know I never racked because I saw it was in battery while I looked over it at my threat. It was very important at that point for me not to look at my gun directly, not to focus on it, because there was that other guy and I had to determine how much of a threat he was and then look back at the other guy too and, then look for cover all pretty much in the same second. I knew I could tap rack reengage if I needed to without ever looking at my gun. I knew I could strip the mag and reload if I needed to without ever looking at my gun. I knew where my focus had to be and it was on multiple threats not on my pistol. I squeezed off the second round almost praying it would fire which it did. As it was the recoil had felt funny, hell the whole thing felt odd, I was on super high alert and every little thing was registering. You see as I had been walking down the street, this car pulls in close to the curb but not close enough to be parked just in front of me a few steps. As I walked on, all the bells and whistles went off, I realized something was wrong. I had actually removed my right glove without realizing I had done so. Then I placed my hand on my pistol and kept walking. As I got next to the car the passenger got out staring at me and sort of hunched over. I looked for his hands and they held a sweater. He pulled the sweater back with his left hand and his right was under the sweater further back. As he pulled it back he exposed what appeared to be a sawed off rifle barrel thread at the muzzle end. I kept moving hoping for cover -as it was I was headed for a light pole - not much cover or concealment but better than none. Then I shot as described above. The reason I thought the gun had jammed was probably due to the fact that the recoil felt so weak because my right hand cushioned my left hand or because I was all pumped up with adrenalin (I am not 100% sure I had a two hand grip when I fired the first shot, but I did as I fired the second and I then realized my glove was in my left hand cushioning the recoil. I dropped the glove so as not to allow it to get caught in the slide but luckily I did not need to fire more anyhow.

I also have been ambushed by guys intent on hurting or killing me with of all things rocks and chunks of concrete. I followed one guy to effect an arrest and as I did, another bunch, maybe 8 or so, ambushed me. It was a planned set up. They all started throwing rocks and chunks of concrete at me. I was lucky because I had scanned the area. I saw them just before the first rocks came hurtling and I gunned it, the engine of my ramcharger that is. I wound up chasing them all in the Ramcharger I was driving. Great as a guided bullet. They ran south to Mexico. When I got close to the fence I was all eyes on the threat when suddenly a new group also waiting in ambush for me started to hurl rocks at me. One hit my windshield and sprayed glass into my eyes. I tried to turn off and as I turned hard right (could not turn left because of an obstruction) my vehicle stalled. I was now broadside to the fence and the rock throwers. When I drew my blue steel revolver (man those were the old days) I kept scanning my threats. I fired at one guy who seemed the most immediate - he was closest and was cocking his arm to throw. I had glass in my eyes at the time from my windshield (I was in my vehicle) but I kept my eye on the threat as well as I could. I missed (did not find out till the next day) - too bad that glass was in my eyes but, the shot had all the effect I needed, they all ran.

Any bad moves by me? Sure. I was young and not as well trained or experienced as now. Good move to watch my targets sure it was. Good move to scan, sure because I actually saw the initial group of guys just before the first rocks were thrown and was at least ready to take action which consisted of me driving at them and that caused them to take off and stop throwing rocks. (I could only have done that or reversed and I was on a top of a river bank to my left and driving in reverse would quite possibly have me in the river). I had to know where the threat was to do so. Bad move not to be scanning when second group started rock chucking, sure it was. Just that extra moment of concentration/tunnel vision on the guys I was chasing and I did not scan for more threats and almost got hurt badly. I should also have pulled off sooner once they were on the run, and then called for backup. I was a brave fool. I was lucky the glass only rested on the bottom of my eyes above the eyelashes. No injury, very lucky indeed. Sure this is not the same as looking at your gun while reloading, but it is the same in at least one regard. That is you are focusing completely on something that is not at all necessary on which to focus. I did not have to completely focus on retreating bad guys without looking for other threats, and no one has to focus completely on reloading and lose an opportunity to watch the threat or scan and assess. If you have to give up focus on a threat, don't do it for something like reloading, do it to get to cover or to assess for other threats.

You want to be looking at the threat and scanning for threats because threats kill you. You don't need to be looking at your gun to reload, nor to reload faster. I cannot stress enough the importance of looking at the threat, scanning for other threats or for back-up and, looking for cover - to assess the situation, as much as you can possibly do so. It would be a waste of your assessment power and a waste of time to look at your gun or ammo when you reload because you can do it just as quickly, just as efficiently, without ever needing to focus your vision on it unless your gun has jammed so badly it cannot be cleared without looking at it.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Blackhawk 6]

Glenn,

I think perhaps we have had our signals crossed. When I refer to a reload I was referring to a reload from slidelock, what I refer to as an emergncy reload. Based on your comments, I believe you were referring to what is commonly referred to as a tactical reload, swapping a partially expended magazine for a fresh one.

I tac-reload without looking at the gun. Emergency reloads, I watch the magazine go into the well.

Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.