Stonestacker
Member
Man, am I glad that I shoot on my own private land. I don't even know what RSO stands for.
Is it appropriate for a RSO to go through your bags?
- Thread starter GIJOEL
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Zoidberg523
Member
Range Safety Officer.
Always better/more fun to have your own private land - or at least state hunting land.
Always better/more fun to have your own private land - or at least state hunting land.
Stonestacker
Member
Thanks, Zoidberg. I figured it was something like that.
I refuse to go to Nazi Establishments for their health and mine. I live FREE and am my own RSO as are all those with me where I shoot. I sometimes wonder how many rounds go down range on a late June weekend all across this huge Country. Seems to me that if only once in ten years a mishap were to occur that the media would talk about it for ten years.
I tend to trust my fellow man, I demand that from all I meet or I walk away.
To the OP: I would have grabbed my goods and demanded a hearing with his Boss and then left the site to never return.
I tend to trust my fellow man, I demand that from all I meet or I walk away.
To the OP: I would have grabbed my goods and demanded a hearing with his Boss and then left the site to never return.
1) The OP said that this is an OUTDOOR range and that the RSO had harangued him about the evils of steel CASED ammo. Why would this be a concern on an outdoor range?
2) Sharp Dressed Man had it right, except it wasn't two hundred piddly dollars, it was Hermann Goering's personal, gold-plated PPK. "Well, I put it in there before I left home and it wasn't there when I looked after the RSO illegally rifled through my zippered range bag."
3) Wonder what our RSO wopuld have done had the bag actually been LOCKED?!?
Points to ponder--
ed
2) Sharp Dressed Man had it right, except it wasn't two hundred piddly dollars, it was Hermann Goering's personal, gold-plated PPK. "Well, I put it in there before I left home and it wasn't there when I looked after the RSO illegally rifled through my zippered range bag."
3) Wonder what our RSO wopuld have done had the bag actually been LOCKED?!?
Points to ponder--
ed
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think its the members pushing the envelope...
loadedround
Member
If a RSO or anyone else started to go through my closed secured gear without permission would have some severe contusions on said hand or arm and a copy of the Bill of Rights stapled to his backside. Privacy is to respected not abused!
Victor1Echo
Member
- Joined
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I am so glad I shoot on public land. I hated shooting at ranges. The RSo were like prison gaurds, and in all fairness they kind of have to be. Lots of idiots. Still do not touch my stuff with out permission! Want to know what's in my bag? ask!
trex1310
Member
I wouldn't challenge this guy, he might have a cartridge in his shirt
pocket!
nitetrane98
Member
My god , where do people come up with stuff like this?
postalnut25
Member
The RSO did the wrong thing by going through the bag. However, the 4th Amendment only applies to governmental entities and the people that represent them (i.e. police, sheriffs, etc.)
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I suspect that the RSO was playing the "I know more about guns than you" card with that statement, and trying to imply that you shouldn't shoot steel cased ammo through an AR for the gun's sake. I think the "16,000 rounds of Wolf without cleaning" thread elsewhere pretty much shows that position is incorrect.
The RSO didn't say it was against range policy to use Wolf; he was trying to convince the shooter to use more expensive ammo.
As to the question of rifling through the bag, are you telling me that there is no law preventing some random guy from going through the purse of the woman next to him, as long as she's not holding it? That it's only a crime if he actually takes something, or if he starts going through the pockets of her clothes (which would presumably be assault)? I don't see how that could be correct; if the Walmart greeter cannot legally search my Walmart bags on the way out the Walmart door, then how in the world can some random stranger legally rifle through my personal stuff without asking for consent?
Deanimator
Member
I'm a range officer at our club. We're VERY serious about safety.
No range officer would touch anyone's gun without permission, except to ensure that it was unloaded before the line was cleared for a target change, or if it was found with the action closed while the person was not at his firing point.
A range officer who searched somebody's bag would probably not be a range officer after the next board meeting.
I'd have told him he didn't have my permission to search me, packed up my gear and left. I would have then found out who the responsible party was and seen if that was policy. If it was, that'd be the end of me at that range. If it wasn't, I'd expect an apology from that range officer.
No range officer would touch anyone's gun without permission, except to ensure that it was unloaded before the line was cleared for a target change, or if it was found with the action closed while the person was not at his firing point.
A range officer who searched somebody's bag would probably not be a range officer after the next board meeting.
I'd have told him he didn't have my permission to search me, packed up my gear and left. I would have then found out who the responsible party was and seen if that was policy. If it was, that'd be the end of me at that range. If it wasn't, I'd expect an apology from that range officer.
BeerSleeper
Member
- Joined
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- 688
For that matter, why would it be concern on an indoor range? I can see reasons for a range to be concerned with the type, size, and velocity of the bullets, but why do the casings matter?1911fan said:
It is your property and he's NOT a cop with reasonable suspicion to search the property. As often the case with someone having a slight amount of authority, he's overstepped his bounds.
SOOO glad I belong to a private club/range
SOOO glad I belong to a private club/range
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
There are at least a couple of brands of steel-cased ammo that have a steel core in them. If the range the OP was shooting on had steel gongs set out for the members to shoot at, the RSO could have been validly concerned that he was intending to fire steel-core rounds at the gongs.
Doing so would cause a lot of damage to the target, so the RSO's concerns aren't completely unfounded.
That said, valid safety concerns are no excuse for someone to act like a jerk. I quit my membership at one club in part due to something similar.
Spencer_OKC
Member
While I agree that this is absolutely unacceptable, I do not think this is an illegal act, at least it wouldn't be in the State of Oklahoma.
The restrictions of the 4th Amendment apply to agents of the government, and not to private citizens.
Larceny or robbery charges generally require a taking, and there is also no apparent intent.
My response would have been to repack my gear, find the management to make a complaint & request a refund, and then leave.
The restrictions of the 4th Amendment apply to agents of the government, and not to private citizens.
Larceny or robbery charges generally require a taking, and there is also no apparent intent.
My response would have been to repack my gear, find the management to make a complaint & request a refund, and then leave.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
All the talk about calling the cops makes you guys sound kind of reactionary.
This is an internal club matter, and frankly the cops have better things to do than deal with a range officer with an inflated sense of authority.
This is an internal club matter, and frankly the cops have better things to do than deal with a range officer with an inflated sense of authority.
Onward Allusion
Member
Not cool at all. The RSO definitely should have asked your permission or questioned you regarding the type of ammo you were going to shoot. He should have NEVER touched your range bag!
Drop a letter or phone the owners of the range. Depending on their answer, you may have to find another range.
Drop a letter or phone the owners of the range. Depending on their answer, you may have to find another range.
KodiakBeer
member
A crime was being committed. You need a police report to to back up the civil suit, even if the police refuse to make an arrest.
Nobody is going to search me or my belongings without a warrant from a judge, or my express permission. If an RSO asked me to show him the contents of my bag to see that I was complying with the rules of the establishment, I'd happily and politely comply. Walk up and start rifling through my bag without permission and you're going to have a problem.
NavyLCDR
member
Justin said:
Justin,
You might want to look at who mentioned called the cops first:
lilguy said:
It was the "NRA RSO", lilguy, with the Napoleon complex talking about calling the Sheriff on "belligerent" shooters. Anyone starts going through my personal belongings the way claimed by the OP, and I am going to get "belligerent" real quick, and I don't care if that anyone is a bum on the street, an RSO, or the Sheriff.
WNC Seabee
Member
I carry 2-3 pistols and their magazines (mags loaded, but not inserted) in my range bag. How would I know what the RSOs intentions are? Do I just hope he's not going for my gun? No. I would immediately separate him from my property and THEN worry about his intentions.
armoredman
Member
Another reason to love my unsupervised yet well maintained free public range.
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