Is The 45ACP Too Slow?

[Buzz9mm]

I have been trying to figure out which caliber to stick with and I can't settle on one. I have been comparing ballistics with what I've read and how I feel about particular calibers and it seems like they all have their ups and downs. Can anyone confirm, deny, or elaborate on the following?

1) The 45ACP is too slow to penetrate barriers(doors, windshields, walls) and still cause enough damage.

2) 9mm is too weak to end a fight quickly and it tends to over penetrate.

3) 10mm (Glocks ...) seem to blow up frequently, ammo is very expensive, and it doesn't offer much ballistic advantage over the 40 S&W (in factory loads...).

4) 357 SIG ammo is hard to find, expensive, and runs at a higher pressure than many other calibers causing the guns to wear out quicker.

5) 40 S&W has a decent amount of recoil, making follow up shots and target acquisition take longer. Also, compared to the 9mm, the ammo is more expensive and you don't gain much more of a ballistic advantage (kinetic energy...).

That is all that I can think of right now. Those are some concerns that I have with each caliber, again from what I've read and how I feel. I don't mean to offend anyone's favorite caliber, etc, I'm just hoping that you guys can give me your $0.02.

Thanks,

Buzz

 

[TYFOOON]

.45 ACP, gotta have one. Pick your poison. I like the XD45 4" Service.

Get your self a 9mm from a good manufacturer also.

Think of guns like golf clubs. Not really going to play the whole course with your putter or your driver now are you?

Fooon


Stay away from non NATO sanctioned rounds. Why? When the goods dry up, NATO cartridges will hopefully dry up last.

Oh, and get an AK.

 

[seldomseensmith]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

This should answer most of the questions you have asked.

The 9mm over penetration issue is a non-issue. If you are shooting FMJ, well then yes, but ammo manufacturers have adressed this issue. Check for 9mm defensive ammo in 147 grn, especially the offerings from hornady in their critical defense or TAP line. I love my Glock 21, but am hoping to get a 9mm in the future due to lower ammo expense, little less recoil resulting in quicker follow up shots and a much flatter trajectory.

 

[schmeky]

Buzz9mm,

Tell me which one you'd rather not be shot with . . . . .

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I don't think people can out run .45 ACP yet so its still good.

 

[Buzz9mm]

My biggest question is, can a .45 go through doors, walls, windshields, etc and still do it's job? I've heard some crazy stuff, and since I'm used to the 9mm it freaks me out that most pellet rifles run at the same speed. I've heard of winter jackets and heavy clothing stopping a .45ACP. All I know is that I want something semi automatic, with a capacity of 10 or greater, with the biggest bullet that I can going as fast I can get it to go. That's what I've gathered from this:

http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

If you guys haven't seen this before, I would read it. He seems to know his stuff and its pretty impressive and interesting.

- Buzz

 

[PabloJ]

No, it's the best of the bunch that were listed.

 

[Lucky Derby]

The .45 ACP is the direct decendant of, and was designed to be the replacement of the .45 Colt. The .45 Colt was designed to drop a horse in it's tracks. It was the magnum of the 19th century.
Modern car doors and windows are not a problem for .45 ACP.

 

[ttheel]

My biggest question is, can a .45 go through doors, walls, windshields, etc and still do it's job? I've heard some crazy stuff, and since I'm used to the 9mm it freaks me out that most pellet rifles run at the same speed.

I dont think this is pellet gun speed.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=93

1225 fps, 616 ft lbs of energy

 

[Lucky Derby]

My biggest question is, can a .45 go through doors, walls, windshields, etc and still do it's job? I've heard some crazy stuff, and since I'm used to the 9mm it freaks me out that most pellet rifles run at the same speed. I've heard of winter jackets and heavy clothing stopping a .45ACP. All I know is that I want something semi automatic, with a capacity of 10 or greater, with the biggest bullet that I can going as fast I can get it to go. That's what I've gathered from this:

http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

If you guys haven't seen this before, I would read it. He seems to know his stuff and its pretty impressive and interesting.

- Buzz

There is always the .50 GI.

 

[Tomcat47]

Buzz....you will hear anything!.....

Facts are a different thing!

It amazes me that all calibers bounce off heavy clothing...are too slow...overpenetrate.....dont penetrate....etc etc.

I love 9mm, I love 45 ACP, I love .32 Auto, and .380.....

I dont care what crap I read concerning someones opinion on what they will or wont do!

Its more important as to what YOU are more comfortable with and how well you shoot it!

My 2 Cents!

PS You prob dont wont shot with a slow 45 even after it passed through a couple doors ... even if you were wearing heavy clothing! ( MY OPINION)

 

[Sunray]

"...can a .45 go through doors, walls, windshields, etc..." You don't want any pistol bullet (or rifle bullet for that matter) to do any of that. You are entirely responsible for where any bullet you fire ends up. Kill somebody down the street after firing through a door with any firearm and you're guilty of manslaughter. Hit an evil doer while he's driving and you have an uncontrolled, 1 ton plus, projectile.
In any case, penetration is not about the velocity alone. The bullet construction has far more to do with it. An FMJ will penetrate more than an HP.
"...heard of winter jackets and heavy clothing can stop a .45ACP..." That's nonsense. Whoever told you that is very confused.

 

[Frozen North]

A handgun round is always gonna be a compromise. Big and slow, light and fast, or excessive recoil are the trade offs.

There is excellent ammo out there for all of the defensive calibers that cut the corners off the issues, but there will always be trade offs. You need to decide what you are willing to compromise. 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45acp are the front runners. IMO, when you add up the pro and con issues, they are all pretty much equal.

 

[LightningMan]

So what if a pellet gun can run the same speed as a typical .45 acp round, your forgeting the difference in mass. Its like comparing getting hit with a pingpong ball at 90 mph and getting hit with a baseball at that same speed. I'll take getting hit with the pingpong ball anyday. LM

 

[Buzz9mm]

Buzz....you will hear anything!.....

Facts are a different thing!

It amazes me that all calibers bounce off heavy clothing...are too slow...overpenetrate.....dont penetrate....etc etc.

I love 9mm, I love 45 ACP, I love .32 Auto, and .380.....

I dont care what crap I read concerning someones opinion on what they will or wont do!

Its more important as to what YOU are more comfortable with and how well you shoot it!

My 2 Cents!

PS You prob dont wont shot with a slow 45 even after it passed through a couple doors ... even if you were wearing heavy clothing! ( MY OPINION)

Very true. I shoot the 9mm the best, but I think I'm leaning towards the 40S&W. It runs a little faster then the .45ACP, it's cheaper, and it's still has a slight advantage over the 9mm. The FBI must use it for a reason lol. I like this video too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQ25I3jbks

Not the most controlled study, but it's a real world example.

 

[kozak6]

I don't think you have any business shooting at a bad guy through a door or a wall , and probably not at one in a car.

Real life is not an action movie. You are responsible for every bullet that comes out of that gun.

 

[Buzz9mm]

Also, I'm really not too concerned with penetration. I would feel horrible if an innocent bystander got hit, but if I'm shooting my life is in danger and I'll do what I have to do. I would rather sit in jail then be dead, but that's just me. I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm just being real ... I'll keep checking out some .45 penetration videos, but if the result is the same as the other video that I posted I think I'll stick with my .40 for now ...

 

[Kiln]

Here's what I've learned from internet forums:

Anyone who breaks into your house will be hopped up on meth and weigh around 250 pounds and is practically invulnerable. For some reason the meth hasn't made junkies lose weight and instantly makes them forget to fear being shot.

Multiple shots with the .25acp are likely to go unnoticed by a bad guy and its extremely likely that he won't even be frightened away afterwards but will instead stick around and murder you.

Human beings have become super resilient in the last few years and killing them with the .32acp is nearly impossible.

You know those older break top guns chambered for rounds like the .32 Long that used to kill people all the time way back when? Yeah don't even bother with those, they won't even penetrate the guy's jacket especially if he's wearing two shirts.

A 9mm will go through three houses and kill your best friend's son after you shoot a home invader because it over penetrates.

The .45 is so slow it'll bounce off walls and glass but if there's nothing between you it guarantees a one shot kill every time.

A shotgun is the ONLY weapon you should consider for home defense because if you point it in the general direction of a bad guy, aiming is not necessary and anything within a ten by five area is going to be obliterated.

What I've learned from the internet is that no matter what you use for defense there's always some guy who knew a guy that used some caliber and it wasn't effective for some reason. Its all BS, pick what you're comfortable with and use that, its always better to have a gun you know how to use than the next hottest thing and not be able to hit crap with it.

 

[gathert]

Go stand in front a someone shooting a .45 ACP. Pick your distance up to about 50 yards, because you wont be shooting at someone near that far. Now let him shoot and try to move out of the way. Are you slower than the bullet or is the bullet slow enough for you to move out of the way? Problem solved

 

[Caliper_Mi]

$0.02: you're being too picky. Maybe the answer is just to go with .357 mag? You've eliminated pretty much all the common cartridges already.

Seriously, if 45 and 9mm are too weak, then something with more power has got to have more recoil. Have you actually shot a .40 in a similar platform as a .45 or 9mm?

 

[Strahley]

You are looking WAY too much into this. Pick a caliber that is 9mm or bigger (whichever you shoot the best), load up some quality ammo, and forget about it. If you need excessive barrier penetration, guess what? You need a long gun!

 

[Smaug]

You're getting into "over-research mode".

This year, the .45 ACP has been proven for 100 years. And that is with FMJ round nose ammo too.

That would have to be one HELL of a winter jacket to stop a 45 ACP. It is either BS, or there were other factors involved.

Don't worry so much about it. Just buy the gun you like in a caliber of minimum 9mm power level and bore size. Get good hollow point ammo for defense, and you've done all you can do.

Speed has not much to do with penetration.

hickok45 has a youtube channel, and one video in which he was shooting 45 Colts out of a lever action rifle at over 200 yards at an oil drum. He must have been aiming a good 6 ft. high, due to the low speed and bullet drop. It took probably over a second for the bullet to travel that distance, yet when it got there, it went through both sides of the drum and into the earth behind it.

The Box 'O Truth site (maybe the one linked above?) has one where he shot a 45/70 at the box, and it penetrated a LOT more than the .223 Rem, despite moving at about half the speed and being twice as big in diameter.

 

[Buzz9mm]

I know, I'm way too indecisive. I'm just trying to consider all of the variables in case I ever have to use my gun. I consider car doors, windshields, thick clothing and PCP potential barriers and I don't want to worry about not having enough velocity/penetration. Also, I love the 357 Magnum, but I don't love only 6, 7, or even 8 shots. As far as the .40, I own one. I practice with 180 gr FMJs and the recoil is much more then the 9mm in my opinion. I guess it's worth it though and I will just stick with it for now.

 

[Strahley]

It's not worth it. .40 isn't giving you anything over 9mm for self defense

9mm, .45, and .22LR. The only 3 semi-auto calibers you need. If you need more power, you need a long gun, end of story

 

[nelsonal]

Perhaps something like the .45 Win Mag might be a better choice, though just like revolvers at that point you lose double stacked magazines so you're back at 6-8 shots.

As much as we argue about them, 9mm/.45/10mm and their variants are pretty much in the sweetspot of enough capacity, speed, mass, and control to be most effective for most shooters.