Is The 45ACP Too Slow?

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Buzz your not over thinking the issue. It is real! And those that don't think one needs to worry about certain issues are nuts in my book.

I don't worry about wearing a pistol out or advance maintenance needed to keep certain caliber weapons running right when shot a lot.

I do have concern about barrier penetration. Both in home and in a auto.

My home, bought and paid for is framed and trimmed with old growth pine with lath and plaster walls. The plaster is reinforced with horse hair and mixed with a very fine silt that comes from a local mud river. The plaster is very strong! A growing trend here is very violent entry's when the homeowners are at home. Two to four people seemed to be involved. This style of forced entry has to be delt with very quick! My first shots will be through a wall if we are in bed! And I will take the shots. Homes in our neighborhood have distance between them. In the direction these shots would take place is my daughters home. We share a empty lot between our two homes with a low slung large tree between us and multiple cars. Not to mention there home is a few feet higher elevation wise than ours. So yes I will take the blind shots if somebody comes through the front door. First choice CZ-52, second .357 Mag, third .45 ACP. One is always on nightstand duty with the PF-9 and a lock box lagged to the floor under the bed on my side that is unlocked when I go to bed with the other two loaded and ready for action. A G20 with Lone Wolf barrels will join the trio with either 10mm or 9x25 Dillon loads in it. OOO and G20's don't have a blow up history. The 10mm basic history is we a pussy's in America now days. We are analyzing, justifying, and demoralizing our selfs into the biggest hole to be found with the pussifaction of America.

And one can find themselves in a awful mess in a car. I had to make a buiness trip to Down Town Little Rock last year. I had to work and stay down town for a few days. I friggen hate the LR!!! So driving into DT LR less than a mile from my hotel I get bum rushed at a light by what looked to be some bloods. I'm stuck at a light with cars in front, behind, to the right. A very large curb to the left with a up hill pull in my Mazda3. BG and his buddy's running up on me from my left. No where to go. Lead BG comes across a parking lot yelling trash at me. I roll up my window. He is still coming and getting more drove up with his buddy's close behind. 7 to 10 yards from me I pull out my new M&P .45 acp. Lead BG has put his right hand into a coat pocket and is trying to pull his hand out. But something is hanging up. He has a gun or some sort of weapon. In my haiste to deploy the M&P I miss gripped the pistol by the beaver tail. I didn't drop the weapon but it did make a full 360 in my hand as I was trying to gain control of it. (Bottom line,,,,, I cut that damn stupid beaver tail off.) Once he saw the gun and it firmly in my grip lead BG yelled GUN and they went the other way. As Lead BG was cussing his coat pocket. If that BG had shown any weapon at all! I would have shot him through the door or glass in a heart beat! At the time of retreat he was less than 3 yards from my car. This all happened very fast! And I have no doubt the +p 230gn, XTP handloads I had in the M&P would have done there job well. I live and pretty much only go to free states. So yes I carry my own ammo tuned for my weapons.

I will only use 9mm for face to face shots or shots that do not involve barriers. As a rule I avoid all manner of engagement if at all possible. I carry a PF-9,, great little pistol. I will run if possible. Not because it's a 9mm, I don't want to have to shoot somebody. But it would seem the world is getting more violent by the minute.

If I had to pick one caliber for a bottom feeder it would be a 10mm loaded up with the proper ammo. The Colt Delta Elite is the over all best 10mm I've ever owned or fired. It is a great weapon! BUT,,, it's heavy a pain to carry in my book and your locked into just the 10mm round with less than steller capacity in the mag. <<< Thats why I sold mine to a fool that thought it was worth more than I paid for it. You can still find them NIB if you look a bit at fare pricing. Remember the pussafaction of America. That hurts my hand, over penetration, it cost to much to shoot it. Learn to shoot it. Know your surrounding's. It all cost to much to shoot now day's. Learn to reload. :) Heck my little wife can shoot full house .357's out of her MOD 60 Pro now day's. Just took some practice and learning.

In a revolver? Any of the mag rounds are useful. We practice with .38 wad cutters and fmj loads. And that is less and less as time goes by. Better for us to practice with what we are going to shoot in a real time bad situation. Reloading makes this possible. Be it plinking or drills.

My next hand gun purchase is going to be a G20. I doubt I will ever fire a round out of it's oem barrel. As I'm going to purchase proper 10mm barrels for it along with a 9x25 Dillion barrel and die's with a .357 sig barrel and die's. No .40 pussification barrel needed.

Just pick 1 or 10 calibers and weapons. Learn the weapons, ammo and stay aware of your surroundings.

It's all good. :)
 
Where did you get these things from? This sounds like a question that is designed to start a 5 page thread, Buy what you like since you have all the statistics that matter, What caliber do you shoot now?
 
Planning on shooting somebody in a car?..On the otherside of a wall maybe?..you will go to prison...
 
JDGray wrote,
Shooting at a jet windshield that my Brother brought home from work. His coworkers said it was bulletproof, and being a 1.5" thick or so, it sure looked bulletproof, but anyways.....
Nothing .22 cal penatrated, including a 22 Hornet
45ACP sailed through with ease
Did you defrost them?

Oh, wait, those were chickens that needed to be defrosted before shooting them at aircraft windscreens.:D
 
What is overpenetration? If I am shooting someone to stop them from killing me, I want the bullet to go all the way through them. This means it will still be moving. That isn't overpenetration, that is ADEQUATE penetration. There is nothing wrong with the effectiveness of a 9mm. Using premium ammo, any of the above will work just fine. (Inasmuch as a handgun can be expected to work.)

I have no problems with the .45's likelihood to punch through anything I need it to. You are working with lower velocity, but a heavier bullet. If you get the chance, try shooting a .45 through some windshields and car doors. You may be surprised with the results. In the real world, it's not whether or not a .45 would penetrate as compared to a 9mm, it's really a matter of why are you expecting any handgun to shred a car? Get a rifle if that's what you want it to do.

Exactly how frequently do you think 10 mm Glocks (Or ANY Glocks, for that matter,) blow up?
 
45acp 230 grain ammo = 850 fps (580 mph)

45acp 230 grain +P ammo = 950 fps (647 mph)

40 S&W 180 grain ammo = 950 fps (647 mph)

I don't know about you, but i can't outrun any of them :uhoh:
 
Wow.

Psyshack, your home defense strategy is to immediately open fire into the wall in the direction of your daughter's house? Seriously?

:scrutiny:
 
Hell I like'em all. I carry a 9 because i'm small - holds 8. Enough for anything I will likely be able to fight my way out of. I like .40 a lot, but I am only comfortable shooting .40 in a large frame gun - to difficult to carry - but my 96 beretta is one of my all time favorite shooters. Full trigger job done on it and I can shoot it almost as fast as my 9's.
 
One general issues of calibers, the 38/357 was used effectivlly with 6 rounds by Law Enfocement Personell for 50 years. They did just fine fith it. Cosidering that they were a lot more likelly to get shot or shot at that you or I. It appears that some younger or newer, shooters, "young dosen't equal uninformed", "rather the opposite. But some new shooters think they need a 20 round magazine and a 10 mm, 357 ,or a 44 to feel safe. This is not the case and leads down a road that eventually ends up with the person not carrying the 5 lb, combo of gun, and extra mags, "everone knows you need 3 mags right" so when the 2 years or so go by where they get tired of lugging and trying to conceal all this expensive hardware, they end up leaving it at home. Because they are just running to the corner to get a loaf of bread.
That is when they get caught in the middle of a holdup with no gun.
Pick any modern day cliber "all will do the job", and a "good weapon" whatever your taste is. And be happy you are adequatelly prepared for anything that may come your way.
 
Had the same thought since I started reading this,,,, Pheonix Arms p22a or a Bobcat, :D

j/k.

I think you are focused on the wrong kinds of questions. I got a 45ACP because I'm looking forward to getting some pretty 1911s someday and don't want a bunch of different sized rounds laying about the house. Inherited a .380ACP. And, well, I just love .22lr's. :D That's what I have and that's what I use.
 
Planning on shooting somebody in a car?..On the otherside of a wall maybe?..you will go to prison...

Someone driving a car with the intent to kill you is a valid reason and people have had to shoot at drivers that were trying to kill them and walked away from the whole thing. (civilians)
 
I kind of see where Buzz is going with this. I notice a lot of ballistics don't focus too much on a variety of barrel lengths. I was looking at the Taurus PT145 and saw that even the fastest .45 +P rounds only reach around 740 fps (iirc) with much less muzzle energy out of its small barrel.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if 9mm or .40 are better choices for compact pistols.
 
I kind of see where Buzz is going with this. I notice a lot of ballistics don't focus too much on a variety of barrel lengths. I was looking at the Taurus PT145 and saw that even the fastest .45 +P rounds only reach around 740 fps (iirc) with much less muzzle energy out of its small barrel.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if 9mm or .40 are better choices for compact pistols

Not to discount the rule of thumb about barrel lenghth vs. velocity, but it is only a rule of thumb. I carry a full size and/or an officer model size 1911, and had wondered about velocity loss with the shorter barrel. in the short barrel, shot over a chronograph, I only lost about 20 fps with WWB 230 gr FMJ. Different loads do different things as well as every gun is different.

Sure you loose some velocity, but if short barrels were that big of an issue, LEOs would have stopped using them long ago.
 
45 was never meant to shoot through doors. It is an excellent round though. No one disagrees with that. 9mm was a lot more effective before the internet and rapidly available ballistic charts. Same with 38.
 
I'd say if it's a fast entrance when the homeowners are present I would take a serious look at getting a good solid door. Reenforcing the frames and mounting a two by eight across the door. Something to make it harder for them to gain entry to your home, giving you and your family more time to get situated into your position to make their life a living hell. Having a plan never hurts.
But just about any round listed would make do in just about any situation I'm sure.
 
I appreciate your thoughfullness on the matter. Over 20 years ago, this same debate (less the 40 cal but including the 10 mm) was raging on. There is nothing definitive out there you will find that will sway your mind. Find a pistol and caliber that you like and will practice with frequently. Also keep in mind that pistols pale incomparison to rifles and shotguns. We only carry a pistol because it's convienent.
 
kozak6

Put it in context. And also understand there is a very large old style coal burning fire place on a wall the rounds would have to get through that is brick, concrete and sand stone.

If I'm up and about the shooting lanes are much different. The bad guys are starting to use SWAT entrance tactics. They are very violent and quick! So yes my door comes crashing down in the middle of the night. I'm shooting blind through a wall! And barrier penetration is very important. :)
 
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