Is The 45ACP Too Slow?

[Buzz9mm]

I see what you guys are saying. I think I'll just stick with my .40 for now and get a 9mm at some point. I feel a lot more comfortable with a 9mm and I could shoot a lot faster if I had to. Thanks for all of the feedback guys, I appreciate it.

- Buzz

 

[thefamcnaj]

i alternate between the g19 g27 and g30 and feel just as comfortable with my 9mm as i do my 40 or 45 they are all carried with corbon power balls or critical defence.if you have to draw and use your gun to stop a threat all the statistics, over or under penetration going through walls or what ever goes out the window because you are trying to save yourself. if something happend such as over penetration or whatever the case may be while i was in the process of protecting my wife and kids then i'll just have to take my day in court. i'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

 

[csbassplayer2003]

Caliber ultimately isn't the deciding factor. Shot placement is. A 22LR will drop a BG if it is well placed.

 

[Kiln]

Caliber ultimately isn't the deciding factor. Shot placement is. A 22LR will drop a BG if it is well placed.

Yeah but you'd better only go for headshots if you want the guy to be down and not able to shoot back or run off and sue you later.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Well, after reading the original post I'm amazed anyone ever manages to kill anyone with a handgun and am wondering why there are people trying to take them away because they are so dangerous.

 

[LAK]

1) The 45ACP is too slow to penetrate barriers(doors, windshields, walls) and still cause enough damage.

This depends on material thickness etc. I do not think the .45 has a particular handicap in any regard as a service cartridge. It is a lower velocity cartridge and will generally not penetrate as well as say a 9x19mm

2) 9mm is too weak to end a fight quickly and it tends to over penetrate.

Weak? In what regard? It will penetrate well with hardball or controlled expansion bullets such as the Winchester Ranger T 127 grain load. Personally I think most expanding pistol loads suffer from more under penetration than over penetration and avoid those than run on the shallow end.

The only bullets from a service class pistol that will reliably and consistantly "end a fight quickly" are those that strike and destroy significant central nervous tissue; the brain and spinal cord. The rest is all very iffy and little to do with 50 grains difference in weight or a fractional difference in bullet diameter.

3) 10mm (Glocks ...) seem to blow up frequently, ammo is very expensive, and it doesn't offer much ballistic advantage over the 40 S&W (in factory loads...).

The pistols blow up or the bullets? I doubt the former, the latter is dependant on bullet choice. All generally available ammo gets wrung to death on review forums, youtube demos etc so it should not be hard to find a good 10mm load.

And regardless of a perceived small margin in ballistic advantage over the .40, the 10mm remains about the most manageable upper end in the service pistol category. A good controlled expanding hollowpoint or softpoint, and some hardball ought to provide a load for most anticipated practical applications.

4) 357 SIG ammo is hard to find, expensive, and runs at a higher pressure than many other calibers causing the guns to wear out quicker.

Hard to find locally, expensive; probably. They should not wear out any platform quicker than a .40.

5) 40 S&W has a decent amount of recoil, making follow up shots and target acquisition take longer. Also, compared to the 9mm, the ammo is more expensive and you don't gain much more of a ballistic advantage (kinetic energy...).

When it comes to recoil platform is perhaps more critical with a .40; remember it is a sort of 10mm lite.

I would agree with there being not much gain over a 9mm hence I myself prefer a 9mm in a service pistol. If I want a heavier bullet I would choose a .45. If I want more power, for a trail gun for instance, I would go with the 10mm.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Unless your winter clothing is made of Kevlar, it isn't going to stop a .45. Sometimes LEOs do need to shoot through intervening barriers like auto glass and doors, but I see little need for this for the rest of us. Nine is fine. With (this is important) good jacketed hollowpoints it is at least adequate in power, it is cheaper to shoot so you can practice more, it has light recoil in small guns, and you can put lots of them in bigger guns. My second choice is .45. Back when a box of generic practice ammo was a ten-spot it would have been a tie. I don't care for the "snappy" recoil of .40 S&W, actually liking .45 better.

 

[wristtwister]

Hmmm... I've got lots of pistols in both .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 mag, 9 and 10 MM, .44 mag and .22 LR.... can't say that I'd want to get shot by any of them... every one of those cartridges would get the job done. As for "what's best", it's all personal opinion on your part. I love shooting .40 S&W, but usually carry a .45 or high-cap 9 mm.

If I haven't learned anything else about shooting, it's that everybody else is an expert, and your opinion sucks because they're so smart. I know how well I shoot, and have shot with some of those "experts", and watched some of them fumble and bumble their way around the range. My advice is "pick something", get competent with it, and carry it. .45 is my choice, because I've seen what they can do... along with the other calibers. Some are a little too frisky to be good for following shots, and others aren't the best for penetration, etc. so what you're using it for has a lot to do with cartridge selection.

I'm not picking cartridges based on their ability to penetrate body armor, because hopefully I won't be shooting against police forces wearing that kind of equipment. One of my acquaintences was a CIA operative who was shot by a .45 at close range, and his statement was "I killed the guy who shot me shooting from the floor, because it knocked me flat on my back"... unlike many storytellers, he had the scars to prove his stories, and after shooting with him at the range, I was even more impressed with his abilities.

Pick something, practice with it and get the skills to protect yourself... that's about all you really need to know. If you're competent with one caliber, you'll be decent with the others.

WT

 

[Zerodefect]

.45 is my round of choice. It's an accurate round. It goes through auto doors and glass fine.

I like Federal 230gn FMJ, 230gn Rem Goldensabre, WWB 230gn, Win230gn JHP, Win Ranger T, and Corbon Powerball.

Penetrating cars is important. Plenty of drive by style muggings going on. You may have to defend against your attacker then defend against his reinforcements in a car.

I can only carry single stack .45 1911's. Doublestacks are too fat. So I'll choose .40 like a Glock 23 to get a smaller gun with more capacity when needed.

If I need an even smaller gun for CCW, then .40 is way too snappy. Then I use 9mm.



Caliber choice more often revolves around my attire and level of concealment. Enviroment and situations I'm likely to encounter in said enviroment also weigh in on what I'll carry.

 

[JDGray]

Shooting at a jet windshield that my Brother brought home from work. His coworkers said it was bulletproof, and being a 1.5" thick or so, it sure looked bulletproof, but anyways.....
Nothing .22 cal penatrated, including a 22 Hornet
45ACP sailed through with ease

My nonsientific test showed that bullet weight was the key, not velocity, in penatrating jet windshields.

 

[Zerodefect]

Shooting at a jet windshield that my Brother brought home from work. His coworkers said it was bulletproof, and being a 1.5" thick or so, it sure looked bulletproof, but anyways.....
Nothing .22 cal penatrated, including a 22 Hornet
45ACP sailed through with ease

My nonsientific test showed that bullet weight was the key, not velocity, in penatrating jet windshields.

That's a valid scientific test. Most science seems unscientific.

Heavy and slow often does better against polymers and wood. Light and fast tends to excel at more brittle materials like steel plate, sheet metal, metal tubeing.


I forgot to mention above. .357sig is gone because +p+ 9mm and lighter varieties of .40 act exactly the same.

 

[Kiln]

My nonsientific test showed that bullet weight was the key, not velocity, in penatrating jet windshields.

I'll be sure to bring that up at my local terrorist support group. Lmao.

 

[JDGray]

Poorly stated, we were shooting at 1.5" Lexan pieces

 

[brickeyee]

1) The 45ACP is too slow to penetrate barriers(doors, windshields, walls) and still cause enough damage.

How did you conclude that speed is the only factor in penetration?

 

[Kiln]

Poorly stated, we were shooting at 1.5" Lexan pieces

Lol'd.

 

[Rinspeed]

I thought these silly debates were thoroughly hashed out in the late 90's

 

[Big_John1961]

Buzz....you will hear anything!.....

Facts are a different thing!

It amazes me that all calibers bounce off heavy clothing...are too slow...overpenetrate.....dont penetrate....etc etc.

I love 9mm, I love 45 ACP, I love .32 Auto, and .380.....

I dont care what crap I read concerning someones opinion on what they will or wont do!

Its more important as to what YOU are more comfortable with and how well you shoot it!

My 2 Cents!

PS You prob dont wont shot with a slow 45 even after it passed through a couple doors ... even if you were wearing heavy clothing! ( MY OPINION)

This.

 

[Big_John1961]

here's what i've learned from internet forums:

Anyone who breaks into your house will be hopped up on meth and weigh around 250 pounds and is practically invulnerable. For some reason the meth hasn't made junkies lose weight and instantly makes them forget to fear being shot.

Multiple shots with the .25acp are likely to go unnoticed by a bad guy and its extremely likely that he won't even be frightened away afterwards but will instead stick around and murder you.

Human beings have become super resilient in the last few years and killing them with the .32acp is nearly impossible.

You know those older break top guns chambered for rounds like the .32 long that used to kill people all the time way back when? Yeah don't even bother with those, they won't even penetrate the guy's jacket especially if he's wearing two shirts.

A 9mm will go through three houses and kill your best friend's son after you shoot a home invader because it over penetrates.

The .45 is so slow it'll bounce off walls and glass but if there's nothing between you it guarantees a one shot kill every time.

A shotgun is the only weapon you should consider for home defense because if you point it in the general direction of a bad guy, aiming is not necessary and anything within a ten by five area is going to be obliterated.

What i've learned from the internet is that no matter what you use for defense there's always some guy who knew a guy that used some caliber and it wasn't effective for some reason. Its all bs, pick what you're comfortable with and use that, its always better to have a gun you know how to use than the next hottest thing and not be able to hit crap with it.

lol!

 

[rcmodel]

I've heard of winter jackets and heavy clothing stopping a .45ACP.

Good grief!

rc

 

[NG VI]

There's a lot of things in your OP that aren't quite on, but I haven't read the whole thread to see how many points people have already covered.

Basically, in today's world, a decently designed bullet from any one of the service calibers will expand reliably, penetrate anywhere from 12" onwards, and higher pressures don't wear guns out, higher momentums do. Higher pressures are harder on rifling, but gas volumes and things like that have some impact as well, and pistol barrels tend to have a long life.

 

[whalerman]

I'm going to take a chance and wallow into this. I don't know much about ballistics. I have shot most all of the calibers you guys have mentioned and I've carried most as well. For work I'm told to carry a 9mm. I have no gripes. They give us +P+ Federal 115gr JHP's. I don't know if its the greatest or not. It has never come to a shooting and I'm hoping I can get a few more years in without it coming to that.

When I think of these kinds of confrontations, there are lots of concerns before I get involved with ballistics. First off, get the gun out. Once you are engaged, the decision is made and in a way, its simple from that point on. Its that moment of recognition that bothers me. I worry about seeing the threat. The second thing I think of is who is around, kids, anyone else in the picture. Then its on to whether the threat warrants deadly force, and if so, shot placement (center of mass is the training) and double taps, or whatever stops the threat. I guess I never really think much of the stopping power of the weapon. I figure if I put the rounds in the right place all will be well. Interesting discussion though. You really do get to a point where you just want to go home at night.

 

[Loosedhorse]

9mm is too weak to end a fight quickly

Odd. We should tell that to all the recipients of 9mm who found it ended their fights very quickly.

10mm (Glocks ...) seem to blow up frequently, ammo is very expensive, and it doesn't offer much ballistic advantage over the 40 S&W

My 10mm Glocks haven't blown up once. 10mm ammo from Double Tap and others offer lots of balistic advantage over .40 (whether it's meaningful advantage for SD is a separate question).

The 45ACP is too slow to penetrate barriers

This is not the main problem. It is too slow to pose any threat to The Flash at all.




Other than that, I'd say you've got an awful lot of good calibers there. The glass is 95% full, not 5% empty.

 

[Nicky Santoro]

45 ACP makes a big hole and goes deep. Questions?

 

[amd6547]

...A shotgun is the only weapon you should consider for home defense because if you point it in the general direction of a bad guy, aiming is not necessary and anything within a ten by five area is going to be obliterated...
You forgot that just racking the slide is enough to make even the most cranked out meth addict pee himself and run screaming to the nearest police station, making it unecessary to hit him with a load of birdshot, the ultimate HD shotgun load.

 

[Ala Dan]

I'm a 1911 fan of .45 ACP fame; but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night,
and YES - I do own a Springfield Armory [4" service model] XD .45 ACP~!

* FootNote- .45 ACP = too slow? I think not, as "dead is dead"~! Maybe a
perp could see the round that kills him/her coming at 'em (ha-ha-ha).

**FootNote- Note too mention that an old West German SIG-SAUER .45 ACP
P220A lies "at the ready", just in case I have too defend my life or the lives
of loved ones. It has not let me down, and this one has been in service since
1-31-95.