Is The 45ACP Too Slow?

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Hornady makes their Critical Defense ammo in .45acp; they're hollowpoints with a polymer core that acts like a steel core but won't penetrate steel or concrete, rather, the polymer core helps the round penetrate thick clothing that dumb*ss gang bangers wear 24/7. If that is of concern, then get the Hornady ammo.

Other than that, I cannot think of another handgun round that causes more tissue damage and outright amputation of appendages better than the .45acp, the slow muzzle velocity and foot-pounds of pressure applied to a point .45 inches in diameter is massive. The only other handgun I know of that is far more destructive (re: you live, he dies) is the .45 long colt round with lead hollowpoints.

As far as needing to shoot through concrete, windshields, engine blocks... what are you looking to do with a pistol that would require you to shoot through these tough barriers? As far as I know the Zombie Apocalypse hasn't happened yet so...

Bob
 
the plain simple fact is that the greatest number of shootings involving private citizens occur at about 3-5 feet beyond arm's length
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And what does that have to do with barriers?

I remember watching a video of an attorney trying to take cover behind a 5" tree trunk in front of the Van Nuys Courthouse while his client was firing at him from a short distance, arms length if I remember correctly. It looked as if they were dancing.

Cover is available everywhere.

I remember watching another video of a cop and a perp exchanging gunfire from across the hood of the police car. Total distance? 5 feet from muzzle to muzzle.

There are doors.

There are windows.

There are walls.

ect.
 
Buzz9mm said:
Very true. I shoot the 9mm the best, but I think I'm leaning towards the 40S&W. It runs a little faster then the .45ACP, it's cheaper, and it's still has a slight advantage over the 9mm. The FBI must use it for a reason lol. I like this video too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQ25I3jbks

Not the most controlled study, but it's a real world example.
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The FBI used the 10MM FIRST for a reason==POWER==
I load+shoot handgun calibers from .32acp--.44Mag. with most calibers in-between. I often carry a 9MM (CZ-75B) or a .45acp. (Colt MK-IV or Kimber TLE), but I can tell you my Glock G-20=10MM has the most power in a 16 round package as any of my weapons. And--NO--the Glocks do not blow up any more than any other, as long as the proper load procedures are observed.
BTW: The FBI did back off of the 10MM as a duty weapon due to it's excessive power==a lot of Agents could not handle that POWER--Can YOU??? Bill.
 
It's all about the ammunition.

Many many discussions here have centered around ammunition, hollow point versus full metal jacket. Obviously, if you use hollow point .45 it will expand - and, engagement will be with any caliber, 10 feet or less. So really, caliber is a moot point (anything above a .22). (However, a .22 can be quite deadly as well, placement, placement, placement).

So knowing that engagement will be less than 10 feet, it's safe to state that any caliber will be effective as long as the proper bullet is selected. With .380, FMJ-with higher caliber, hollow point for rapid expansion and energy dump so you don't hit grandma nearby.
But I cannot emphasize placement-which comes with a lot of practice at the range. Then, you could use FMJ with any caliber as long as you're an expert shot.
 
billybob44 said:
The FBI used the 10MM FIRST for a reason==POWER==
I load+shoot handgun calibers from .32acp--.44Mag. with most calibers in-between. I often carry a 9MM (CZ-75B) or a .45acp. (Colt MK-IV or Kimber TLE), but I can tell you my Glock G-20=10MM has the most power in a 16 round package as any of my weapons. And--NO--the Glocks do not blow up any more than any other, as long as the proper load procedures are observed.
BTW: The FBI did back off of the 10MM as a duty weapon due to it's excessive power==a lot of Agents could not handle that POWER--Can YOU??? Bill.
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Damn, I get tired of correcting this crap. The FBI never formally tested full power 10mm. The specification called for a load with no more recoil than the 185gr .45acp they were considering. One of the test members used his personal Colt 10mm with his hand-loads that were loaded down to what became known as the FBI lite 10mm specs. The FBI never tested or adopted the full power 10mm. The problem had nothing to do with recoil, how could it, the .40 load they adopted was the same as the 10mm lite and used in a liter gun. The size and weight of the gun was the problem.

if you want documentation

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7318687&postcount=83
 
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I have heard of the winter coat stopping a hollow point from expanding properly. I don't know if it's true or not. I do know that if it's cold enough for a serious coat like that I ain't gonna be there:) I would rent several guns at the range and see which caliber I shot best and then choose it. I personally keep 9mm, .38 spl, .357 mag and .45 acp. I was also looking for a .44 mag but found a security six so my budget is a little lite right now.

I'm not sure why you would want to shoot thru walls and doors, seems it would be hard to aim and hit what your shooting at.
 
Old school JHPs used to get plugged and stopped with thick winter clothing. I wouldn't worry about it with newer, quality JHPs on the heavier end of the caliber's available bullet weights. So, for example, 230gr. Gold Dots in 45 ACP, 147 gr HST in 9 mm, etc.
 
I don't think it is TOO slow. It is slowER but a 230gr bullet at 1000fps in a defensive situation is like throwing a bowling ball to someone at that speed.
For flatter shooting look at .357 sig loads if that is what you want. Special police loads are designed to reach 2000fps to defeat body armor.
cannot compare the two. Two different concepts.
 
.45 too slow?

The hundreds of documented police shootings, documented thug-a-blast shootings show that it's shot PLACEMENT, not caliber that counts.

9mm, .357, .38 +p, .40, .41, .44, .45, 10mm all seem to be acceptable (if a shotgun or other long gun not immediately available) for self defense.

These discussions on caliber are getting old, are they not? :barf:
 
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tuts40,
I agree with you. It seems like the old broken record all the time.
Many modern loads and pistols can do lethal damage in many of the rounds and calibers mentioned.
Reliability and placement is what it counts. Placement has a lot to do with what feels comfortable to the shooter and the shooter is more accurate with.
I wouldn't give a short .357 magnum revolver to my grandma as it might break both her wrists. LOL!
 
Not sure I understand the statement of the 45 being to slow ,seems to me the 45 ACP is a fine shooting gun the way it is ,thats why its so popular even now and lasted the test of time.
 
Reliability and placement is what it counts. Placement has a lot to do with what feels comfortable to the shooter and the shooter is more accurate with.
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Yup.

I do find it pretty funny when the topic comes up. Usually it happens because the poor OP got bombarded with some chest pounding "You need at least a .44 Mag to penetrate a soda can from three yards! Anything else is unreliable and may get you killed by a 680 pound trained blackbear in body armor with attached machetes and a chest strapped bomb, like the guys in LA gangs are using now!"
 
If you want penetration get a 7.62x25 Tokarev. It is supposed to be a useless defense round because of over penetration. Your choice should depend on what you shoot best. A big .45 acp is an easy gun to shoot, moderate recoil. On the other hand it is not a good choice for CCW. The 9mm is effective, flexible, cheap practice and easy to shoot.
 
I watched this show called fighting science and they re-created a ninja attack and chronographed a blow dart. It was clocked at about 170 FPS or 70 mph. That created enough energy to peirce the skin. So a .45 acp going at 700-800 FPS, I'm sure will get the job done. I've heard things about a winter coat stopping a slow .45 round. I highly doubt that though.
 
On the internet winter coats have stopped anything from .303 British to .38 S&W. Always remember that. 8)
I wouldn't wear one though. They never seem warm enough.
 
a gun in hand is worth two in the closet. whatever under/overpowered weapon you choose, make sure you carry it and you can hit what you are aiming.

murf
 
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