Is The 45ACP Too Slow?

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Yes, it is also entirely feasible that the one time your car is stopped and you have to shoot through your door the BG will be wearing IIIA body armor and it won't matter. There's so many different variables that spending hours looking at ballistics tables and such is the least of your worries. 9 times out of 10 the sight of a gun will make a BG run away.
 
psyshack said:
kozak6

Put it in context. And also understand there is a very large old style coal burning fire place on a wall the rounds would have to get through that is brick, concrete and sand stone.

If I'm up and about the shooting lanes are much different. The bad guys are starting to use SWAT entrance tactics. They are very violent and quick! So yes my door comes crashing down in the middle of the night. I'm shooting blind through a wall! And barrier penetration is very important. :)
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What Oklahoma are you in? Or at least, where in Oklahoma?

I know kick doors are all the rage. But "Swat Style?" In Oklahoma? You have got to be kidding me. Our criminals are violent but far from being that organized.
 
Buzz9mm said:
Very true. I shoot the 9mm the best, but I think I'm leaning towards the 40S&W. It runs a little faster then the .45ACP, it's cheaper, and it's still has a slight advantage over the 9mm. The FBI must use it for a reason lol. I like this video too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQ25I3jbks

Not the most controlled study, but it's a real world example.
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Hey Buzz check out this video... I found myself concerned about the speed of the .45 acp but like another member said... "No one is going to outrun 700-800 fps rounds". I'm with you bro I LOVE the 9mm. I found this vid on Youtube and just thought it was kinda funny, I'd like to see tacti-cool arrogant guys tell this Seal that he is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT_C-iJfMe4
 
Buzz I think you watch to much TV unless you plan on going on a shooting spree WTH do you need a round that will shoot through doors for if you plan on shooting moving vehicle shooting though walls in long drawn out gun fights I hope your not my neighbor. These questions that you have raised are not even real scenarios for personal defense. There is a certain responsibility that comes with carrying a firearm and IMO this cowboy mentality is dangerous.
 
Yes. The .45ACP is WAY to slow to have any effect at all. It's been proven time & again to be weak and ineffective....
That is why it's a flash in the pan and will soon be forgotten along with the ill fated .357 Magnum experiment.

It's unlikely that I will have to shoot through doors & windshields in my living room ... ;)
 
Fishslayer said:
Yes. The .45ACP is WAY to slow to have any effect at all. It's been proven time & again to be weak and ineffective....
That is why it's a flash in the pan and will soon be forgotten along with the ill fated .357 Magnum experiment.

It's unlikely that I will have to shoot through doors & windshields in my living room ... ;)
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That's funny. The .45 weak and ineffective and it and the .357 are going away? They be taken out of service but they will be around long after we are gone my friend.
 
That's funny. The .45 weak and ineffective and it and the .357 are going away? They be taken out of service but they will be around long after we are gone my friend.
Today 01:13 PM
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He was being sarcastic. Most folks understand the effectiveness of the .45. There is good reason's as to why it is Masaad Ayoob's favorite defensive caliber.
 
There is a reason that most law enforcement agencies (including the FBI) and Special Forces have abandoned the 9mm. It is ineffective in a fight. The minimum, currently available defensive round is the 40 S&W. The 45 ACP is the best (IMO). A 40 S&W with a 165 grain HP is a good load with very little recoil.

Good Luck
 
Kimberultra, if that's your plan, I suppose you don't even need to have the gun loaded.

And the 9mm is certainly not ineffective. Especially with modern ammunition. I would not feel underarmed in the least with a 9mm. I would rather have the capacity of a 9mm than the energy of a .40.
 
My gunfight is going to be at arms lenght.

My 17 rounds of 9mm is going to be an overkill from that distance ... If I don't soil my pants and completely freeze.
 
I think that a 454 Casull loaded with a 240gr JHP @ 2000 FPS should defeat all of the OP's barriers and still penetrate deep enough to do some damage.
 
aminyard - The plan is to NOT have to fire your gun, but I keep it loaded to be prepared for that 1 out of 10 chance that the sight of a gun won't make him run.
 
Police and the military MAY think about shooting through barriers, car door etc, but as a responsible civilian I cannot ever conceave of when that need would happen with me.

The 45 ACP is a very capable round, just like the .38 Special is. Both have been around many years and have done the job for millions, including the police and the military. The 9mm or ever the FiverseveN will do the job, if you do your job...that is practice with the caliber/firearm of your choice until you are truly proficient with it.

Choose a bullet design that does not over-penetrate and you will be fine. Hopefully you will never need to use it in a defensive manner, and if you do, your proficiency with you chosen weapon will pay dividends.
 
Police and the military MAY think about shooting through barriers, car door etc, but as a responsible civilian I cannot ever conceive of when that need would happen with me.

The 45 ACP is a very capable round, just like the .38 Special is. Both have been around many years and have done the job for millions, including the police and the military. The 9mm or even the FiverseveN will do the job, if you do your job...that is practice with the caliber/firearm of your choice until you are truly proficient with it.

Choose a bullet design that does not over-penetrate and you will be fine. Hopefully you will never need to use it in a defensive manner, and if you do, your proficiency with you chosen weapon will pay dividends.
 
hermannr said:
Police and the military MAY think about shooting through barriers, car door etc, but as a responsible civilian I cannot ever conceave of when that need would happen with me.

.
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Happens all the time:

You park your work truck on a side street near East 55th in Cleveland OH. You grab your tools to service the elevator at a retirement home/clinic and start walking down the sidewalk. It's right about the same time Highschool gets out.

A suspicious Amish buggy with 22" chrome wheels and tinted windows, pulls up quick. A hand with a Hi Point sticks out the window. Someone inside the car says "I like Turtles!"
 
Quote:

>There is a reason that most law enforcement agencies (including the FBI) and Special Forces have abandoned the 9mm.<

Well...uh...There's those hard-headed SEALs who seem to do okay with the Sig 226 in 9mm.

Guess they didn't get the memo either.
 
Bad guy gets shot with a .45ACP

"Is that the best you got? That was a little slow wimpy round. Hit me like you MEAN IT!"
 
Police and the military MAY think about shooting through barriers, car door etc, but as a responsible civilian I cannot ever conceive of when that need would happen with me.
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Do you think that your assailant will always present himself for a frontal shot?

What are you gonna do when you're cornered and your assailant takes cover behind a car as he's firing at you?
 
Whew! All this talk of gunfights and barricades and such are a caution.

We can "What If" these questions until they serve beer and ham sandwiches at a Bar Mitzva...but the plain simple fact is that the greatest number of shootings involving private citizens occur at about 3-5 feet beyond arm's length...and the matter is decided with 3-5 rounds fired by both parties...in 3-5 seconds.
 
Buzz9mm said:
I have been trying to figure out which caliber to stick with and I can't settle on one. I have been comparing ballistics with what I've read and how I feel about particular calibers and it seems like they all have their ups and downs. Can anyone confirm, deny, or elaborate on the following?

1) The 45ACP is too slow to penetrate barriers(doors, windshields, walls) and still cause enough damage.

2) 9mm is too weak to end a fight quickly and it tends to over penetrate.

3) 10mm (Glocks ...) seem to blow up frequently, ammo is very expensive, and it doesn't offer much ballistic advantage over the 40 S&W (in factory loads...).

4) 357 SIG ammo is hard to find, expensive, and runs at a higher pressure than many other calibers causing the guns to wear out quicker.

5) 40 S&W has a decent amount of recoil, making follow up shots and target acquisition take longer. Also, compared to the 9mm, the ammo is more expensive and you don't gain much more of a ballistic advantage (kinetic energy...).

That is all that I can think of right now. Those are some concerns that I have with each caliber, again from what I've read and how I feel. I don't mean to offend anyone's favorite caliber, etc, I'm just hoping that you guys can give me your $0.02.

Thanks,

Buzz :)
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The idea of "slow" vs "fast" in ammunition gets a lot of undue attention. If you get a challenge about your old "slow" .45acp remind the challengers that 800fps is 545 mph. And 900fps equals 614 miles per hour. Not a very scientific reminder but the idea is sound. Regards, Al
 
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