Is this how it's going to be for .22LR owners?

[CoRoMo]

But how can people be shooting more when they can't find it and it is not affordable?:banghead:

That's not an accurate representation of how it is in my situation.

We've been shooting a whole lot more .22lr since, about the end of 2013 when I really started acquiring large amounts of ammo. So now, it's just about the only thing I shoot, or at least many times more than centerfire ammo. I think that's because reloading powders are still a bit tricky for me to locate.

Before Sandy Hook, I had one .22lr rifle and at least one handgun, might have had two, but I had no .22lr ammo to speak of.

Since then, I've bought a couple more Marlin 60's and three 10/22 Takedowns, so there should be eight .22lr guns at the house now, unless I'm forgetting one. And I shoot the stuff every week, have years worth of ammo to work with, and I don't have any trouble finding more at great prices.

So that's how people like me can be shooting more; we can find it and it is quite affordable.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This x1000

And there's more people shooting these ammo hungry guns than ever with no real increase in production capacity

That's IT period. I'll wager that production capacity hasn't even kept up with baseline population growth for 20 years.

I agree, and I think it's a combined effect of mass consumption in modern semi auto guns, and hoarders also.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I sold the semi auto .22's and have single shots now. Really helps on the ammo consumption.

I did the same, and bought a 22 revolver. It slows me down..... in a good way.

I gotta say too, look at the prices of a lot of center fire ammo. I love shooting 45 Colt, but I have to wait for a sale to get jacketed stuff, and it still costs me $36.00 before taxes for 50. I used to be able to find 45 acp pretty regularly just a few years ago for $17.00 a box of 50. Now I end up paying $19.00 if I'm really lucky. Herter's 357's run me about $23.00 a box on sale.

I am working towards reloading, but I'm not there yet. I don't get to shoot that often, so when I do, it's usually between 150 and 300 rounds of various stuff. And runs me anywhere from $75 -$150. It's pretty rough depending on what you're shooting, so folks turn to 22lr.

I think a lot of folks can't afford to pay for centerfire ammo, especially new shooters. So to them, paying the current high prices for 22lr seems like a good, or at least an acceptable deal.

 

[Bob-in-Florida]

Once upon a time I can remember buying gas (at least once I actually started paying for it) at 59 cents a gallon, and so on and so forth.

For the most part, I do by my ammo on line. The shops have what I want and can tell me how much it cost. I like http://www.luckygunner.com/. They will also sort it out at cost per round. When I first started buying 22 lr it was 4 to 8 cents a round. Now it’s 12 to 18 cents a round. I’m not holding my breath for it to go lower. I’ll buy it and shoot it. I don’t buy locally because they usually don’t have what I want or in the quantity I’d like. All of this is just the cost of living the way we want.

Because someone asked; all ammo must be shipped via ground transportation, FedEx or UPS will do it. However, since it is an explosive (how the Government classifies it) they can’t leave it and someone must sign for it.

 

[Mike OTDP]

You can buy match grade stuff all day long, at prices that are quite reasonable. It helps to know where to look...as in online, from specialty distributors like Champion's Choice.

Bulk plinking ammo isn't worth it for me.

 

[oneounceload]

all ammo must be shipped via ground transportation, FedEx or UPS will do it. However, since it is an explosive (how the Government classifies it) they can’t leave it and someone must sign for it.

Not true, ships as ORMD and those guys leave it by my front door all the time. Gun powder is not an explosive - black powder is.

 

[JSH1]

But how can people be shooting more when they can't find it and it is not affordable?:banghead:

If 22LR at $0.10 a round isn't affordable then someone simply can't afford to shoot. 22LR is still by far the cheapest round to shoot if someone buys factory ammo. How many people can't afford $5 for a 50 round box of 22? Some people won't buy 22LR at that price but that is because they think it should cost less not that they can't afford to buy it.

I met my wife for lunch today and stopped at 4 stores on the way home looking for 22.

• Sportsman's Warehouse: CCI 22 Short HP / $0.10 - I bought one box because I haven't tried any shorts in my rifle yet
• Sports Authority: 22 LR Aguila Super Extra / $0.12 - Bought a box of copper plated and one of regular lead because I haven't tried any Aguila 22LR yet
• Fred Meyers: No 22LR
• Dick's: Remington Golden Bullet: $0.08 - Bought one box (They also had some Winchester subsonic for $0.12 per round)

 

[mboylan]

I've never bought ammo online before, but have been thinking maybe I should if that's the only way to get certain types, and maybe the best prices on much of it. Since .22LR is still absent from store shelves around me in a city of 65,000 people, I thought I'd give the online world a try. Here's what I found. A 50 count box going for $10, even for generics stuff like American Eagle. Sure, there's one for $8, but I remember only a year or so ago I could get a brick of 500 for $10 before it (gasp!) doubled to $20. Now it's $100. http://www.bulkammo.com/rimfire/bulk-.22-lr-ammo?p=1

If this is how it is and how it's going to be for .22LR, I'd be willing to sell the 1,000 rounds I currently have for the price I bought my rifle for.

Does anyone see the situation getting better? Worse? Having a .22 used to mean cheap, fun shooting. But at these prices, the "cheap" part just isn't there anymore. Makes me wonder if people will see much of a reason to buy a .22 firearm anymore.

$10/brick is 70s pricing that disappeared in the 80s came back in the 90s and lasted until the mid 00s. You could not buy a brick for $10, 7 years ago much less 1.

 

[TruthTellers]

I sold the semi auto .22's and have single shots now. Really helps on the ammo consumption.

And you don't ever have to deal with a jam again

 

[susieqz]

i bot a 22/45 in march. to learn handguns i shoot 1200 rounds of 22lr every month since.
i have no choice but to buy 3 bricks/ month, $50 each.
it's all i can afford, but that's the cost of this hobby.
still cheaper than centerfire. reloading is a chore i prefer to avoid.
i'm not gonna whine about cost. nobody forces me to shoot as much as i need to shoot. i just need to be competent, so i pay.

 

[Singletracker]

While the argument that 9mm will do what .22 will may be valid in some circles. The one's that are hurting are the kids.

My 11 year old, although big for his age, is still at a .22 stage when it comes to shooting.

We've started 3-gun matches and the Match director allows my son and my buddy's son to shoot "Junior" class. .22 M&P pistol and .22 M&P 15-22 (along with an 870 20ga) those two rimfires can eat a lot of lead between practice and matches. Making it worse, the M&P pistol like copper plated rounds, particularly Mini-mags. I have some Automatch and some 525 bulk packs.

I've given ammo away to a couple of older gentlemen who just wanted to take their grand kids out to shoot.

 

[Bama Drifter]

That's total hog wash. It's called a free market, and it's what makes capitalism work.

Ammunition is a commodity the same as any other. If someone buys an ounce of silver at $15.00 and turns around and sells it a few years later at $30.00 because the market demand is there, does that make that person a scalper? No, it makes them someone who chose to invest in a valuable material or item, and sell it later at a profit. That's called having business sense, not scalping.

Buy low, and sell high. It's how the stock market works, it's how investing in commodities works, and it's why a lot of people will be able to retire some day.

If you can't see that, then I suggest you move to a socialist or communist country where you will receive your yearly allowance or quota of .22lr ammo. Complaining that someone else had the foresight to purchase supplies and be prepared for a shortage is only demonstrating that you did not have the same foresight. And for the record, I only have about 2000 rounds of 22lr on hand. I am not reselling any of it, and I'm not a hoarder. It's all I need to keep on shooting.

^^^Amen to Kodiak & our beloved capitalist free market system! As long as you don't say that you're one of the A-holes lining up at Wal-Mart every weekday morning to flip each brick you find... I don't see much of a problem. Ammo is a fungible resource. HOWEVER, as was stated earlier, RIMFIRE ammo doesn't last forever like centerfire, esp. mil-surp 9mm, .45acp, 5.56, or 7.62, etc. I've shot a few mags of 40s and 60s era hardball in my Colt with great success. My spam can of 9mm Wolf will outlive me. And my Lake City 7.62 will function fine if my grandkids 50yrs from now want to shoot it.....

-These mentally deficient foil hat guys who fill up a tool shed w/ rimfire are truly the MAIN PROBLEM. Youtube doesn't help. Anyway, rant over. YMMV

 

[susieqz]

bama, that's the second time someone said rimfire ammo won't last.
well, i wanna build up a supply. i buy 300 rounds/month than i shoot.
how long will these be good for?

 

[Bama Drifter]

Once upon a time I can remember buying gas (at least once I actually started paying for it) at 59 cents a gallon, and so on and so forth.

For the most part, I do by my ammo on line. The shops have what I want and can tell me how much it cost. I like http://www.luckygunner.com/. They will also sort it out at cost per round. When I first started buying 22 lr it was 4 to 8 cents a round. Now it’s 12 to 18 cents a round. I’m not holding my breath for it to go lower. I’ll buy it and shoot it. I don’t buy locally because they usually don’t have what I want or in the quantity I’d like. All of this is just the cost of living the way we want.

Because someone asked; all ammo must be shipped via ground transportation, FedEx or UPS will do it. However, since it is an explosive (how the Government classifies it) they can’t leave it and someone must sign for it.

Bob wins the thread...
People will pay whatever it costs to shoot if they enjoy it enough. Just like cigarettes were $18 a carton when I was a kid and gas was $0.89 a gallon. Stuff goes up. .22LR is interesting in that the lead cost nearly the same if not more than the brass casing. Anyway, hopefully my signature says it all.
Last post from Bama; done w/ this thread

 

[Bama Drifter]

bama, that's the second time someone said rimfire ammo won't last.
well, i wanna build up a supply. i buy 300 rounds/month than i shoot.
how long will these be good for?

Totally depends on storage conditions. Moisture seeps into rimfire ammo where the bullet meets the case mouth. It isn't an airtight seal like on central-fire ammunition.

AZ, SoCal inland deserts, UT... maybe your stuff will last 15 yrs. Southeast like my home state, or Louisiana, FLA, Miss, etc.... maybe 4-5 years unless you keep it HIGH and DRY in a climate controlled room.
Good luck and don't overbuy it!

 

[JSH1]

bama, that's the second time someone said rimfire ammo won't last.
well, i wanna build up a supply. i buy 300 rounds/month than i shoot.
how long will these be good for?

I would recommend you mark the date you purchase the ammo on the box and shoot the older stuff first. (In manufacturing speak: First in - First out)

 

[susieqz]

thanks bama. here on the high plains 15 years works.
a one year supply for me is 14,400 rounds.
thanks, jsh, will do.

 

[.455_Hunter]

The week before SH I bought 50 rd boxes of Federal Champion (40 gr plain LRN) at Walmart for $1.47.

 

[danez71]

I would contend that you are unprepared and MOST of the problem. If you read the thread you will see that there are haves and have-nots. The have-nots complain about scalpers and gougers and hoarders while the haves try to explain how they manage to keep inventory.

A friend and I bought 100k rounds of .223 right before SH. When everyone started scrounging for 223 we sold a portion and paid for all of ours. If that makes me a scalper then so be it.

I have GIVEN away over 10k rounds of 22 LR in the past two years to friends that couldn't find any. In 2013 I sold several thousand rounds of 9mm to my local sheriff at exactly what I paid so that he could run his women's shooting class. Most people couldn't find any ammo so his classes were thinning out and he sold the ammo to people that registered for the class.

Scalp on that!

That would mean your friends and your local sheriff are also "MOST of the problem" as well.

That must be disheartening for you to be with such company

 

[redneck2]

I was at Dunham's (local chain store) in Warsaw, IN this past week. They had eight 325 round boxes of Federal Auto Match and over thirty boxes of 500 Remington.

Federal was $21 and Remington was $26. Could have gotten two, but I just got one Federal. Right now I have probably 5k rounds, about half bought before the latest shortage

He said they're getting it nearly every week, sometimes twice a week.

Plan on slowly building to 10k rounds.

 

[longspurr]

Manufacturing perspective

When a manufacture can sell all of a product he can produce, that is called 100% utilization rate. My understanding is the rimfire manufactures are using 3 shifts to produce ammo. They should be quite happy and raking in the profits. I'm told profit on rimfire ammo is low.

Since no one is liable to take away their market – and profits – they can stay at this product rate as long as the machinery stays ok. If they can continue 100% for the next 20 years with NO expansion and expansion costs, that would make most manufactures perfectly happy.

We shooters that are seeing too small a supply are not as happy as the manufactures.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Manufacturing perspective



When a manufacture can sell all of a product he can produce, that is called 100% utilization rate. My understanding is the rimfire manufactures are using 3 shifts to produce ammo. They should be quite happy and raking in the profits. I'm told profit on rimfire ammo is low.



Since no one is liable to take away their market – and profits – they can stay at this product rate as long as the machinery stays ok. If they can continue 100% for the next 20 years with NO expansion and expansion costs, that would make most manufactures perfectly happy.



We shooters that are seeing too small a supply are not as happy as the manufactures.

I service and have worked manufacturing

You simply can't maintain that.

Machines wear out

Workers get tired of working all the time

People retire and 22lr production is somewhat skilled meaning it takes time to find willing replacements and train them

The faculty itself eventually needs renovation

And if 24 7 production isn't quite but almost keeps up now in a slightly reduced demand what happens when the next "run" occurs


But you are right. Manufacturers are doing "good enough" and as long as that continues the status quo remains or actually steadily gets worse with population growth

 

[clutch]

Last month I bought Blazer in the 50 round boxes for 1.99 per box. That works out to 4 cents a round. Three years ago it was 1.56 a box.

Yesterday the same retailer had 100 pk of Rem Golden bullets at 8.99 a box. I like RGB's for shooting in my auto pistols but I don't like them at 9 cents a round. Maybe that plastic box added to the cost a bit. At 6 cents a round I'd have snatched a few boxes for stock.

So for someone that might not have the stash that most of us tend to have, that 9 cent bullet looked like a good deal and that person bought it and is happy.

Things have to get to where you see ammo on the shelf every day, no matter what the price, and then the panic will subside with pricing following.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The price for cheap .22 ammo seems to be settling in at .10-.12 a round. That's still a bit too high for me although it's still the cheapest thrills you're going to have with a gun. I was looking at buying a .22 rifle to train my grand daughter but couldn't bring myself to do it with those prices.

I know times have changed but if one looks at commodity prices, brass and lead are the same or lower than they were 5 years ago. CPI index is only 4% higher. Yet .22 prices have doubled in that time period. Did the price of labor double? I didn't see that reflected in any of pay stubs.

So I have to conclude that the consumer is being ripped off by retailers, wholesalers and mfg's.

I won't play that game so I just keep building ammo at half the retail price and shoot that. I found a work around for the .22. I purchased a 77/357 carbine and load 38 spl for it it. Same effective range and low recoil. Cost is about .03/rd more than cheap .22. I can also load .357 and turn it into an honest to god hunting/SD carbine.

.22 at today's prices is way over rated.

 

[yugorpk]

Manufacturing perspective

When a manufacture can sell all of a product he can produce, that is called 100% utilization rate. My understanding is the rimfire manufactures are using 3 shifts to produce ammo. They should be quite happy and raking in the profits. I'm told profit on rimfire ammo is low.

Since no one is liable to take away their market – and profits – they can stay at this product rate as long as the machinery stays ok. If they can continue 100% for the next 20 years with NO expansion and expansion costs, that would make most manufactures perfectly happy.

We shooters that are seeing too small a supply are not as happy as the manufactures.

Ive worked in manufacturing for a long time. The 22 ammo bubble, and it is a bubble, will burst. Its not how or when it happens , it will happen. Manufacturers know this. No one wants to build/buy the new machinery it takes to expand their capabilities to produce .22lr ammo when at some point in the next few years the floor will fall out on the market and shelves will be overflowing with .22lr .


I wouldnt pay 10-12 Cent a round unless its premium ammo. I would'nt pay 7 cents a round for federal which is what I can find it for when I can find it. 5 cents is what would pay. I am priced out of the market until the bubble pops. I'll sit on my 2K rounds of minimags until the market stabilizes and I can buy 22lr for less than what I can reload 300 BLK for.