susieqz
Member
my guns prefer SV.
usually that's more expensive but those prices are dropping faster than bulk.
usually that's more expensive but those prices are dropping faster than bulk.
Is this how it's going to be for .22LR owners?
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I have purchased more than 40,000 rounds of assorted 22 ammo over the past 2 years and virtually 100% of it has been from online sources. Every bit of it has been at what I consider an acceptable price of between $.05 and $.08 per round delivered to my door my my trusty UPS man. The exception has been some "specialized" ammo that has always cost more than general plinking ammo but I have a few guns that like certain ammo better.
In December of 2012 (the week after Sandy Hook) I bought 10 bricks of Aguila from Graf and Sons at around $.04 delivered. I have purchased plenty of Remington bulk, Federal bulk, Winchester bulk for $.05 per round and less that $.06 delivered to my door by my trusty UPS man. In that same time frame I have managed to buy 3 bricks of Federal Auto at a local Walmart and 6 boxes of Stingers from a Walmart in PCB FL. I have seen plenty of 22 LR in local stores but always at prices much higher than I wanted to pay but if I needed a brick to take a kid shooting and all I could find was $.12 per round then I would buy it.
2 1/2 years at big box stores has netted me 1200 rounds or so. If you go to Walmart, Bass Pro, Dicks, Cabela's and Academy you might find some ammo...then again you might not. I take a glance every time I go in a Walmart just to confirm that they don't have any. If you want to spend an hour or three driving around and looking for ammo at your price point then more power to you. Natchez has Federal for $.06 a round RIGHT NOW. They don't ship to AL/GA so I don't really look at their store. A couple of other places have it for $.08 delivered. $.10 per round, sitting on your porch a couple of days after you order it really isn't that big of a deal. OF COURSE $.04 per round, sitting on the Walmart shelf 24/7 is even better but that hasn't been happening lately so stop complaining that your preferred method of ammo shopping isn't working and change your method.
In December of 2012 (the week after Sandy Hook) I bought 10 bricks of Aguila from Graf and Sons at around $.04 delivered. I have purchased plenty of Remington bulk, Federal bulk, Winchester bulk for $.05 per round and less that $.06 delivered to my door by my trusty UPS man. In that same time frame I have managed to buy 3 bricks of Federal Auto at a local Walmart and 6 boxes of Stingers from a Walmart in PCB FL. I have seen plenty of 22 LR in local stores but always at prices much higher than I wanted to pay but if I needed a brick to take a kid shooting and all I could find was $.12 per round then I would buy it.
2 1/2 years at big box stores has netted me 1200 rounds or so. If you go to Walmart, Bass Pro, Dicks, Cabela's and Academy you might find some ammo...then again you might not. I take a glance every time I go in a Walmart just to confirm that they don't have any. If you want to spend an hour or three driving around and looking for ammo at your price point then more power to you. Natchez has Federal for $.06 a round RIGHT NOW. They don't ship to AL/GA so I don't really look at their store. A couple of other places have it for $.08 delivered. $.10 per round, sitting on your porch a couple of days after you order it really isn't that big of a deal. OF COURSE $.04 per round, sitting on the Walmart shelf 24/7 is even better but that hasn't been happening lately so stop complaining that your preferred method of ammo shopping isn't working and change your method.
CoalTrain49
Member
It's normal right now. All you have to do is look at Gunbot. They have several dozen online sources and most of that is 0.09 to 0.14/rd. Normal isn't just a few online sellers running loss leaders with a limit of 2 or 3 boxes.
If you want the deals here's the site to watch.
http://www.slickguns.com/category/ammo?caliber=3
Not at my local shop, and I use Wikiarms for e-mail alerts - I get plenty of e-mails for stuff in the $.07 (some @ $.06) round.
'Course, I never order as they usually have limits and the shipping raised the price to well over what I can buy for locally.
Schwing
Member
I think we are all our own worst enemy when it comes to .22. Others have already said this and I used to do this as well. I just kept 1 or 2 bricks of .22 on the shelf and bought another one when it started to get low. Then the panics started to hit one after another and it dried up so everyone is building a stash.
In my last inventory, I had around 20 bricks and I still buy every brick I can lay my hands on when it is available. I think at one point I was up to around 40 bricks and was down to 8 at another. I know it makes me part of the problem and I have seriously cut back on how much .22 I shoot but I am not willing to stop either.
If you figure that the average shooter used to keep maybe 1-3 bricks laying around and now they all want to keep 10+ on hand you can see where the shortage is coming from. As others have already pointed out, there absolutely will come a time when everyone's pantry is full and .22s sit unsold on the shelves again.
In my last inventory, I had around 20 bricks and I still buy every brick I can lay my hands on when it is available. I think at one point I was up to around 40 bricks and was down to 8 at another. I know it makes me part of the problem and I have seriously cut back on how much .22 I shoot but I am not willing to stop either.
If you figure that the average shooter used to keep maybe 1-3 bricks laying around and now they all want to keep 10+ on hand you can see where the shortage is coming from. As others have already pointed out, there absolutely will come a time when everyone's pantry is full and .22s sit unsold on the shelves again.
MagnunJoe
Member
For those of you that are worrying about storing that .22 ammo and it going bad just invest in some real USGI type steel ammo cans with intact seals. Throw in a desiccant pack and label the outside with contents. Then resist the urge to open it to look (and let more moisture in). Then when you want to use it in distant future times open it and shoot away.FWIW I have boxes of .22 ammo (RP in the red/green box) from the 40's-50's my grand father had that shoot OK today. We just shot one of his single shot Savage .22 rifles with a partial box of that original ammo (recently taken from the rafters of his unheated workshop) at a family get together for the nostalgia (and bragging rights to best target shot).
Thanks for the info. I live in Miami, Fl. It does not get more humid than here, year round. I keep my 22LR inside my home, in a safe with A/C year round and I've never had a problem. Even 22LR that's 10 years old goes bang! Every time.
Do not leave 22LR/rimfire or shotgun ammo in the garage or in a shed without A/C for more than 2 years here in Florida, U'll be sorry!
Other ammo, like center fire will be fine.
Jesse H
Member
Good info, thanks! I've mostly been interested in the Sparrow due to the ease of maintenance. At the moment I've only planned on putting the can on rifles, but a pistol would be handy at work when I have to occasionally put down a deer that's been struck by a car.
Have the Sparrow, use it on a Ruger 22/45 & a 16-inch CZ boltgun.
Could not care less about a first round pop.
Never noticed one.
The Sparrow is effective, I don't use it for spook assassination (once admittedly on a gopher in the back yard), and I chose it because it IS so easy to clean.
Denis
Could not care less about a first round pop.
Never noticed one.
The Sparrow is effective, I don't use it for spook assassination (once admittedly on a gopher in the back yard), and I chose it because it IS so easy to clean.
Denis
Just a little thread drift...
AFA those that don't care about a first round pop...did you not buy a silencer to reduce noise?
First round pop is the dirty little secret some sellers don't want to talk about.
Anywho...
1. The Sparrow looks as if it will go more rounds before needing cleaning.
2. The Element 2 is probably going to be tougher to take apart, BUT they do include a tool. Some folks view the tool as a negative - that may be so until you REALLY need it. In that case, the Element 2 (with it's tool) may be easier to take apart than the Sparrow.
3. I did my first cleaning / experiment with both ultrasonic (Gunslick ultrasonic cleaner) AND SS tumbling for the Element 2 ONLY (you can't tumble the Sparrow baffle without damaging the finish on the end cap, which remains with / is built onto the monocore baffle).
I initially thought I'd like the Sparrow for the usual reasons - easier to take apart and easier to clean, BUT now that I've experimented, if one has access to SS tumbling I think the Element 2 is easier to clean.
I cleaned both silencers (especially the Element 2) much more than necessary - the baffle stack now looks like new, and I've used the silicone dip method that's floating around the 'Net for both silencers - we'll see how they look / clean up next time, and I probably won't clean them as well next time (they work better if slightly dirty).
I put 1,000 rds. thru each silencer, and mine looked nowhere near as dirty as the pix I see of folks opening silencers with under 1,000 rounds thru them.
I have shot a fair amount of plated rounds, so I don't know how much that plays into it, and I also don't shoot some ammo that seems to have a reputation of being very dirty.
Based on my experience and the fact that I've treated them with the silicone dip (and grease on the threads), I don't plan on cracking them open again until the 2,000 round mark.
1. I use my Sparrows on long guns due to the first round pop on pistols (there is none on the 15-22 / ARX-160).
2. I also use the Sparrows on the long guns as I have to shoot leaded bullets if I want to avoid the supersonic crack.
3. I use the Element 2 on my pistols - it has no first round pop on the pistols, and I can shoot about any easily found plated supersonic 22 thru it and the pistol since the supersonic round loses enough velocity out of the short barrel to remain subsonic.
4. The Element 2 is both smaller and lighter, which suits its use on a pistol even more than the Sparrows.
This info is for those that haven't yet purchased - some folks that already have just hate it when you find anything to nitpick about with their choice.
(I own both and have no emotional investment in either).
I tell the local boyz interested in 22 silencers to use the Element 2 as a baseline. Doesn't mean they have to buy it, but I find it's usually easier when shopping to pick a highly recommended baseline unit, learn it, then when shopping ask yourself / the dealer "why is this better than my baseline unit?"
I now return you to your normal 22 topic (before it gets ugly / shut down)!
AFA those that don't care about a first round pop...did you not buy a silencer to reduce noise?
First round pop is the dirty little secret some sellers don't want to talk about.
Anywho...
Yes and no - depends on how you clean it.
1. The Sparrow looks as if it will go more rounds before needing cleaning.
2. The Element 2 is probably going to be tougher to take apart, BUT they do include a tool. Some folks view the tool as a negative - that may be so until you REALLY need it. In that case, the Element 2 (with it's tool) may be easier to take apart than the Sparrow.
3. I did my first cleaning / experiment with both ultrasonic (Gunslick ultrasonic cleaner) AND SS tumbling for the Element 2 ONLY (you can't tumble the Sparrow baffle without damaging the finish on the end cap, which remains with / is built onto the monocore baffle).
I initially thought I'd like the Sparrow for the usual reasons - easier to take apart and easier to clean, BUT now that I've experimented, if one has access to SS tumbling I think the Element 2 is easier to clean.
I cleaned both silencers (especially the Element 2) much more than necessary - the baffle stack now looks like new, and I've used the silicone dip method that's floating around the 'Net for both silencers - we'll see how they look / clean up next time, and I probably won't clean them as well next time (they work better if slightly dirty).
I put 1,000 rds. thru each silencer, and mine looked nowhere near as dirty as the pix I see of folks opening silencers with under 1,000 rounds thru them.
I have shot a fair amount of plated rounds, so I don't know how much that plays into it, and I also don't shoot some ammo that seems to have a reputation of being very dirty.
Based on my experience and the fact that I've treated them with the silicone dip (and grease on the threads), I don't plan on cracking them open again until the 2,000 round mark.
1. I use my Sparrows on long guns due to the first round pop on pistols (there is none on the 15-22 / ARX-160).
2. I also use the Sparrows on the long guns as I have to shoot leaded bullets if I want to avoid the supersonic crack.
3. I use the Element 2 on my pistols - it has no first round pop on the pistols, and I can shoot about any easily found plated supersonic 22 thru it and the pistol since the supersonic round loses enough velocity out of the short barrel to remain subsonic.
4. The Element 2 is both smaller and lighter, which suits its use on a pistol even more than the Sparrows.
This info is for those that haven't yet purchased - some folks that already have just hate it when you find anything to nitpick about with their choice.
(I own both and have no emotional investment in either).
I tell the local boyz interested in 22 silencers to use the Element 2 as a baseline. Doesn't mean they have to buy it, but I find it's usually easier when shopping to pick a highly recommended baseline unit, learn it, then when shopping ask yourself / the dealer "why is this better than my baseline unit?"
I now return you to your normal 22 topic (before it gets ugly / shut down)!
ColoradoShooter77
Member
I picked up a 325 round brick of Federal for $20 at the last gun show, should have bought two, lol.
I have simply not noticed a first round pop.
Even if the first shot is fractionally louder than successive shots, it's not enough to be any issue whatever for me.
The can reduces DBs by an average of 36 in the pistol, and first round or 300th round are all quiet enough that I don't worry about increased hearing loss, even indoors.
That's the primary reason I got the Sparrow.
As for cleaning, I don't tumble.
The Sparrow breaks down very easily, unlike some, and it cleans up without too much effort.
Those are important to me.
Not trying to sell it, just noting why I got it & that it works perfectly fine for what I want out of a can.
If you like something else, buy something else.
Denis
Even if the first shot is fractionally louder than successive shots, it's not enough to be any issue whatever for me.
The can reduces DBs by an average of 36 in the pistol, and first round or 300th round are all quiet enough that I don't worry about increased hearing loss, even indoors.
That's the primary reason I got the Sparrow.
As for cleaning, I don't tumble.
The Sparrow breaks down very easily, unlike some, and it cleans up without too much effort.
Those are important to me.
Not trying to sell it, just noting why I got it & that it works perfectly fine for what I want out of a can.
If you like something else, buy something else.
Denis
No. I've only seen used 22s offered at the price of new or maybe a bit less. I've also seen people offering their used guns for $50 or so MORE than new!
Either there's something about the Ruger that eliminated the first round pop, or as you stated, I have simply not noticed...
If you put a Sparrow on a SIG 1911 22, SIG Mosquito, Walter P22, or S&W M&P 22 you will have a first round pop.
Put an Element 2 on the same pistols...no first round pop.
Whether one notices it or not is a whole 'nother discussion.
Heck-any of you potential purchasers reading these posts that wonder what the real scoop is - just cruise on over to YouTube and use the search terms "Sparrow First Round Pop" and make up your own mind.
Again with the "if it were there"?
Hopefully prospective buyers have cruised on over to YouTube and searched / watched / listened to the video clips to decide if there is such a thing, or (as you seem to think) I'm just making this stuff up.
BUT
To answer your question:
1. What is the purpose of a silencer?
2. Assuming I / you know the answer to rhetorical question #1...if that's it's purpose, what's better - one that suppresses ALL rounds, or one that doesn't kick into high gear until the second (or possibly THIRD) round?
Not that it's that particularly important to me (I've already paid my money and learned my lesson), but I just like prospective buyers to approach their purchase with eyes wide open.
FWIW, all the locals I've let try / demonstrated my Sparrow vs. Element 2 and the difference in sound level of the first shot of each on a pistol have ended up buying the Element 2.
Now if I had a silencer like my friend just bought with a TWO round pop, I'd really be irritated that I spent that kind of money for something that doesn't start functioning at 100% until the 3rd round.
And my friend is not a happy camper with his purchase...
When this silliness subsides and the toothless masses have finally exhausted their social security checks filling up their basements with 22LR I will remember the stores that chose to inflate their bottom lines during the mania. Yes, it is the free enterprise system at work , buy low sell high, supply and demand etc. Dicks...Your'e dead to me. Cabelas you are out of there. All you online vendors selling bricks for $60 you are out. I'm doing all my shopping at WalMart not that Ive been in a Wal Mart in 5 years but I will gladly drive 70 miles for a $18 brick of crap ammo once this all subsides and the shelves fill up again.
Let's add this to the probably hundreds of pages we have spent talking about .22. I know it is very important to some folks, but we say the very same things every week when a new thread pops up...
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