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Judge Public Defender Polymer Models?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by 357smallbore, May 7, 2019.

  1. 357smallbore

    357smallbore Member

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    My son bought one of these. Said he really likes it. Said with 410 shell's he'd feel good with having it as a nightstand gun. He said it would do a # on a perp. I can see the 45 Colt get er done.
    I am not so sure on the 410. Any experts out there that care to chime in?
     
  2. Fiv3r

    Fiv3r Member

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    Oh boy, buckle up:D

    One side will call it an ineffective gimmick. The other side will challenge them to stand in front of them when they fire a shot shell. It will go back and forth.

    The long and the short of it, to ME, is that I had one briefly. The .410 probably could put a hurtin on someone with one of those special self defense loads, but they are blasty and concussive. It was ok but nothing I felt I needed to keep.
     
  3. LRDGCO

    LRDGCO Member

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    It is neither fish nor foul. It is an absurdly large 45LC revolver with debilitating free bore that shoots .410 shot shells for no apparent reason.

    In its native Brazil, where .410 smoothbore pistols were one of the few hand guns available to the general public and where car-jackings and attacks on government officials in traffic gave birth to these pistols, it made good sense.

    Here, it does not. A .410 shot shell down even a shallowly rifled barrel will do someone a good deal of harm if they are hit with it at reasonably close range. So will a hammer. But it necessarily patterns poorly (arguments to the contrary are simply wishful thinking, period) and the .410 does not have the capacity to deliver many projectiles of a size that will cause rapid ex-sanguination, or deep penetration. Meanwhile, shallow rifling and extensive free bore mean that accuracy with the 45 Colt will, by necessity and without exception, suffer vs a decent revolver chambered purposefully and well for that cartridge.

    It is therefore a compromise that is utterly unnecessary in the United States and serves no useful purpose. Everyone should do whatever they wish, within the law, with their own money and handle their own safety to their own satisfaction. If someone wishes to own and use an unnecessarily large and inaccurate revolver that addresses a legal restriction not relevant in this jurisdiction, I wish them great enjoyment. But loud defense of said implement that attempts to contradict these facts is a use of time and oxygen that might be better utilized for virtually any other purpose on Earth.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  4. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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  5. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    Hickok does a video with it as well, he uses different kinds of shot, and shows the "specialty" ammo, the kind with the discs, wouldn't even penetrate a burning barrel. Granted, that's steel vs soft tissue but is still representative of its energy and penetration ability vs 45 colt in the same media. In my opinion, its better than nothing, and those that have full confidence in it are willing to defend themselves and loved ones is great, but they should also know the limitations which might lead to a more informed decision based on defensive weapons.
     
  6. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    It's definitely better than nothing, but I think you can do a lot better. Check out the videos Paul Harrell has done on it on Youtube.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  7. kozak6

    kozak6 Member

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    .410 is a generally disappointing caliber, and especially out of a revolver.

    Even the new defense rounds invented just for these things don't offer enough penetration.

    About the only worthwhile load is Federal's 000 buck, which is pretty mean.
     
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  8. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  9. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    I have a steel one in 410 magnum, just for fun. It will sure blow up dead vegetables and trash. On one hand, it's not one of my HD or SD guns. On the other hand, it will unleash 30 32-caliber pellets within a few seconds. It is not a target revolver, but at realistic SD range (20 feet or less), it is fairly accurate with 45colt... it helps that it has a decent weight to it, for a snubby at least. As I said, it's not one of my SD guns, but at very close range with 410 magnum shells, I suspect it would be devastating.
     
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  10. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    Stainless Public Defender owner here, IMO the little extra to pay for a steel frame model is worth it. The extra weight helps keep recoil manageable with certain .410 loads.

    Haven't tried shooting .45 Colt or Schofield yet, but intend to by the end of Summer. .410 is a tale of two ammos, Federal 4 pellet 000 Buck and any other 3 pellet 000 Buck. 3 pellet has very little recoil in my PD and it's downright pleasant to shoot, but the issue is accuracy. From the two times I've shot steel, I get more hits with the Federal 4 pellet load than I do the 3 pellet loads from other manufacturers. The only downside to the 4 pellet Federal ammo is the recoil goes up to just below the pain threshold. Two shots with the Federal and you're feeling it, whereas a 25 rd box of the 3 pellet stuff you feel nothing because it's so light in recoil.

    I'd have to shoot more of the Federal, but given the recoil and distances that these Judge revolvers would be shot for home defense situations, I have no doubt the 3 pellet stuff will work fine. Inside the home is a defense situation where you don't want super deep penetration. The 8 to 12 inches of penetration that the 000 Buck will give you is fine considering you're getting 3, 4, maybe even 5 pellets per shot and multiple wound channels.

    Remember, killing is irrelevant in a defense situation, it's stopping. If that stopping is done by killing or making someone turn tail and run with several slugs of lead in his lungs or intestines, then the threat is stopped. You don't need an exit wound to achieve that.

    As for .45, will it be as accurate as a standard revovler? No, but the accuracy with the .45 will be good enough for typical defense distances. The only issue I have shooting .45 in the Judges is the cylinder throats are huge, like sized for .45-70 bullets huge. Using standard lead bullets means the bore is going to lead like crazy. I'm looking at solutions for this, one of which is a hollow base wadcutter bullet. Given the long chamber, that distance should give the hollow base enough time to expand to seal the gases at the throat and the long bearing surface in addition to the hollow base should grip the rifling better and improve accuracy. Time will tell, I have to test this theory.

    I do like wadcutters for .45, good bullet that doesn't rely on bullet expansion to work when it hits the target and even at low speeds the big bore revolver calibers like .44 Spl and .45 Colt sill hit plenty hard and penetrate well for the situations where penetration is needed.
     
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  11. unclenunzie

    unclenunzie Member

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    For nightstand I keep my non-judge carry pistol nearby.

    I bought my poly judge specifically for mowing or working on my property. There are venomous snakes here and I do not want me or mine to get bit. I have used it on a copperhead and it was very good for that, 410 #8 worked fine, patterns usefully to ten feet.

    I like mine for what it is, to me a dedicated snake gun that is easy to carry. For that it works quite nicely.
     
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  12. maxxhavoc

    maxxhavoc Member

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    Yep, pretty much the perfect snake pistol. Other than that, I don't get it.
     
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  13. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    A Judge and a Mossberg Shockwave would be the perfect combination for pretty much nothing.
     
  14. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I shot one of the Polymer Judges with 410 loads. There was nothing fun about it.

    No a 410 in a handgun is nothing to laugh about.
    We had a man and his girlfriend drinking on their front porch one day. The guy must have said something that upset his girlfriend because, she pulled out a Judge 410 and told him she was going to kill him. As the guy ran the girlfriend was able to hit him three times before he was out of range.
    The only reason the guy is still alive is that the girlfriend’s gun was loaded with 7 1/2 shot.
    But the guy had lead pellets from his shoulders to just above the back of his knees.
     
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  15. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for that. It made my evening.
     
  16. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I can tell that you have never shot a Shockwave
     
  17. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    Agree on the Shockwave, the Judge not so much. The Judge has niche uses where it excells, but the Shockwave is basically just a gun that's made to get people who hate the NFA riled up to go out and buy one and makes videos of themselves twirling the thing like a baton saying, "NA NA NA NA NA! U ATF BOYS CAN'T TOUCH ME!"

    There's another shotgun out there that's 26 inches OAL, has an 18 inch barrel and can be fired off the shoulder without any legal grey areas and it's called the KSG.
     
  18. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I fear that we have people talking about guns they know little about.
    I’ve fired the KSG with a 13” barrel, 16” barrel and 18” barrel. They are not the best when it comes to balance and are prone to miss feeding, depending on the brand of ammo. And they’re not a light shotgun.
    I have a Remington Tac14 that sits next to my bed. I’ve put several different types of ammo through it and know it’s limitations and it’s advantages.
     
  19. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    The only light shotgun with a stock I know of is a single barrel break action. Generally, any shotgun with a tube magazine is not going to be light and you really don't want super light with shotguns as that just makes the recoil worse.
     
  20. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    The grip on the Shockwave and TAC14 are not like traditional pistol grips found on shotguns. You don’t get the felt recoil as with the 90 degree grips.
    There are also different types of shotgun shells. Reduce recoil tactical loads is one of my favorite for self defense.
     
  21. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    I'm aware of all that, none of those things beat a shotgun you put against your shoulder and have more control with.
     
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  22. BlueHeelerFl

    BlueHeelerFl Member

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    I'm not sure about the Judge revolver, but the Circuit Judge long gun I wouldn't mind owning.
     
  23. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I think we’ve gotten way off topic.
     
  24. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I almost bought a Judge as my first handgun years ago. I will forever be grateful to the sales clerk who talked me out of it.
     
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  25. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Too bad the NFA'34 made the Auto&Burglar unobtainium.
     
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