K-31 No Thanks

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You'd lose that bet almost certainly. I shot High Power for about a season and a half. Since my worst event was offhand I practiced. It so happens that because of expense, the rifle I chose to use was an Enfield. For well over a year, I shot a minimum of 100 rounds a week out of that Enfield. The first rifle I chronographed was that Enfield in an attempt to find a sweet spot for offhand.

I started this thread trying to find some reason why K-31 owners are so loyal to their rifle. There has to be a reason. Many Swiss owners gave reasonable answers or tidbits of advice. Some others, circled the wagons, beat their chest and offered, figuratively at least, to drop trou and measure perspective body parts. That's okay. I'll take your word for it. I've learned little that would make me spend to acquire a 7.5. What I was especially amused by is the crusade to convert we non-Swiss shooters and when I, for one, resisted? I'm silly, stubborn, big headed and apparently a teller of tales. Please note that none of the, to me, offensive posters have answered my curiousity about shooting the Swiss. No, they speak of great speed and intrinsic accuracy. Swiss surplus ammunition is relatively difficult to acquire and by admissions here in this forum, reloading to the same gilt edge is difficult or worse. There goes that plus, which as near as I can tell, not having received evidence to the contrary, is the only reason to own one. We even heard from posters who implied they didn't particularly care for the rifle other than it's accuracy. Great speed? I've not heard anything to convince me other than to watch a video where a guy shoots 10 shots in under a minute. Wow. EVERY competitive High Power shooter did this prior to the Garand, every one. Rather than try to sway you K-31 shooters away from your rifle, I was hoping you'd sway me towards it. You have failed.
 
I have a grand total of ten rounds fired in a K-31.
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So by your own admission, you based your opinion of a rifle after firing 10 rounds? Sounds to me like you had your mind made up before you ever pulled the trigger on a K-31.

If you want to move your head each time you fire a round, have at it I don't have to do that for Mosins, Mausers or any other rifle for that matter.
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Sorry, but I'm going to call a Hi-O hardy B.S. on that one. Last July '09 and January of this year I fired two different 03A3's at our local High Power matches. (Incidently, next month will be 26 months I've been competing in our local High Power matches) I can tell you with 100% certainty that if a shooter is using proper form in sitting and prone, he must move his head to operate the bolt of the rifles you mentioned. And if you think for a nanosecond I believe you can operate a Mosin bolt without completely dismounting the rifle, you're dead wrong. Those little short bolt handles positioned far out in front of the grip make it all but impossible not to mention to the long bolt throw.

Swiss surplus ammunition is relatively difficult to acquire and by admissions here in this forum, reloading to the same gilt edge is difficult or worse.
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Nonsense. GP-11 is available at Samco, Sportsmans Guide, Midway USA, Ammo for Guns.com, Wideners, Fivesevenammo.com, GunBroker, etc.
Perhaps you can point us to the post that states that handloading accurate ammo for the K-31 is difficult. I myself stated that it's difficult to handload ammunition that is more accurate than GP-11, but that's a testament to the quality of GP-11, not a negative comment on reloading the K-31. The seven or so K-31's for which I've loaded shot well almost anything I fed them. If you don't believe me, I have plenty of photos of targets shot with my handloads that would prove otherwise.

You say you started this thread in an attempt to find out why Swiss rifle owners are so loyal to their rifles. Yet when we tell you the reasons, you just argue.
And, in reading back through your posts and the statements you've made, I reiterate my assertion that you didn't like K-31's before you ever fired one, and therefore, this entire thread is nothing but a troll on your part.

35W
 
Steve: You must try the STGW 57.
I can not mantain a cheek weld with the mauser or K31. Does it make me want either less?
 
Gees, Afy
and where will I come up with the 5 Grand to buy one...

Actually at least two members here have them, I think one bought his mislabeled as a sporterized K31
 
35 Whelen, you don't strike me as this type of person, but you must remember that some people you deal with are NOT hindered by the truth when they speak. The ONLY thing that is important is their personal opinion. Read my signature, there is no reason to debate with those types of people.
 
Some people can't appreciate a fine piece of Swiss machinery, the precision of German engineering, the robustness of a soviet design, or the exactness of the reverse engineering of a HIGH end Chinese knock-off.

I think the K31 is rather cool, the only other gun (wait two, the Mannlichers and Ross)
to have straight pulls, and neither of them enjoy the reputation of the K31
 
Is a Smurf a friendly troll?

I've shot about ~200 rounds through my K-31 without a black eye from using the bolt. How do I go about stabbing my eye with the bolt while charging a new round? I need to know this so I can warn new K31 owners.

Is this like the stuck accelerator on Toyotas?
 
K31 rifles are wonderfully accurate and slick in a controlled environment, but if you have to deal with pulling your rifle out of the mud in adverse conditions and use it, I would want a Mauser or a Mosin or even a AK at hand.
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They don't have mud in Switzerland. It's against the law.
 
Nice, and contrary to the smurfs rantings I don't hear anyone claiming the K31 is superior to all other rifles either. As a surplus weapon is it hard to beat but I wouldn't argue that it is a Savage FCP-K like my other rifle. Our smurf seems to be implying that we are all saying that.
Additionally if you follow his reasoning that some mythological Sargeant shot some mythological feat of magic with a Springfield that proves the superiority of the weapon I suppose that Jerry Miculiks feats with a revolver also prove the superiority of that platform. All semi autos are inferior by his logic.
 
And the hits just keep on coming. So. None will try duplicating Sgt. Snoxall's record. None will even do a search. And now we resort to name calling. Way to go guys. And personal opinion outweigh logic, common sense and experience.
35, thinking I must certainly suffer from some form of dementia, I just put a Mosin to my shoulder and operated it without dismounting from the shoulder. And, maintaining cheek weld, no contact with the nose. How can this be? How is it possible that so august a shooter as 35 could err so badly. So, I refute your nano second BS call. Perhaps you ought to try it again. Maybe you were having a bad day. And for good measure, I mounted a Mauser, Remington 700 and a Weatherby. Maintaining a proper cheek weld, nary a drop was shed. As expected. Since we can't seem to get anyone to try shooting or even looking up something , perhaps we can get a few to try mounting a Mosin and working the bolt without dismounting from the shoulder. It'll only take a few seconds and maybe you'll learn something in the process. Now I'm just thinking. Perhaps I'm a massively talented shooter geopolitically. Perhaps only I, out of the millions of shooters out there, can take a rifle from the steppes and operate it properly while failing with a rifle from the Alpine regions. Not likely of course. But, just in case..... perhaps there is some sort of re-hab for errant shooters with Swiss deficiencies. I must admit up front that I prefer Hershey's to the Continentral variety and abhor cuckoo clocks.
 
jon_in_wv said:
. . . that proves the superiority of the weapon I suppose that Jerry Miculiks feats with a revolver also prove the superiority of that platform. All semi autos are inferior . . .
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Exactly.

Geezus. The Enfield and K31 are old mil-surp rifles that were taken out of service long ago, partly because their rate of fire could not keep up with an auto loader let alone a burst-fire rifle/carbine.

Although, if two shooters were to seriously get together and have a competition between themselves and not between any long deceased legends, I'd like to see that. I'd even put a little money on it for entertainment purposes. :cool:
 
Although, if two shooters were to seriously get together and have a competition between themselves and not between any long deceased legends, I'd like to see that. I'd even put a little money on it for entertainment purposes.
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O.K.....How's about 421? 2010 Camp Perry Vintage Match Results

You might note that you have to scroll down to the 28th ranked shooter before you see an Enfield, then down to #59 before you see the next one.
I'm just sayin'......:scrutiny:

35W
 
I have shot many different military surplus rifles at our local CMP club's 100 yard reduced matches.

I have always shot better scores with 03's and A3's than with any other military surplus rifle.

Because the K31 sling loops are on the side, I cannot use the sling in the original attachments to steady the rifle. I have tried kludge ideas with sling attachments, but what I found was the point of impact changes with different sling tensions. I did better without a sling attached, but I was not as steady as I am with proper sling attachments.

Because point of impact changes, sling attachments or not, the lack of a windage gage means the group is going to be offset.

Using a bench with a rest, the K31 is very accurate and I can adjust it to shoot to point of aim. Off the bench, it is like most service rifles, pulling or twisting on the stock leads to changing points of impact.

My 03's and A3's are actually good in this regard, assuming the bedding is not shot. My windage has not changed all that much and is correctable, when going from standing to sitting to prone. I can make precise elevation changes with the 03 and rough ones with a A3, so I can compensate for any elevation changes due to position.

A K31 is an interesting rifle but I don't know how it did in war, as the Swiss were smart enough to remain neutral and not get involved in other people's affairs.
 
I can certainly operate a mosin bolt from the shoulder very quickly...if it is empty. Mine (1945 m44) is very stiff to open and eject a fired case. Mine also is unable to use clips due to interference from a poorly fitted cartridge interrupter.
The Enfield is an excellent combat bolt gun...probably the best, when you consider it's magazine capacity and quick bolt.
I have owned just about all the great military bolt action types...mosin, Mauser, Springfield, carcano...they all have their advantages. In fact, I believe I prefer the carcano carbine and it's en bloc clips to the Enfield. Mine is one of the smoothest handling and functioning bolt guns I have ever fired.
But, the k31 convinced me right from the first shots. I mounted a low cost scope on a St Maries clamp on mount, and put six rounds of gp11 through one hole at 100yds. The straight pull bolt functions just about as smoothly cycling a fired round as it does empty.
The chargers for the k31 load smoothly and quickly. The trigger is just...perfect.
The k31 provides everything a marksman needs to make hits at long distance. It does this in a rifle the likes of which will never be duplicated in this age of cnc MIM plastic wonders.
 
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Shadow 7D: The STGW does not cost anything close to 5K around here. They can be had for under 1K Euros easily in these parts. Love mine and it is a great room mate for the K31.
 
hah...looking at the CMP 2010 makes me chuckle...besides the 1917, it's all Swedes and Swiss that dominated the competition.
As for a K31, it's ammo availability has kept me from purchasing one, honestly. Though, I have yet to hear of an owner who is unhappy with their K31. ;)
 
shadow9 said:
hah...looking at the CMP 2010 makes me chuckle...besides the 1917, it's all Swedes and Swiss that dominated the competition.
As for a K31, it's ammo availability has kept me from purchasing one, honestly. Though, I have yet to hear of an owner who is unhappy with their K31. ;)
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Shadow9,
There are plenty of Swiss 7.5 ammo available from Prvi.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=36&name=7.5+Swiss

If you prefer the GP11:
http://www.samcoglobal.com/Ammo-75-swiss.html

I've bought the Prvi ammo and gone the reloading route. Never shot the GP11 through mine but heard they're super accurate.
 
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