Kid target rifle - 223 vs 223ai

[z7]

Really considering a 223 for my daughter, gonna get a bolt action, put it in a chassis, have a good smith spin up and install the barrel and put a nice scope in it. This will be her range toy and she may attend a few local precision rifle matches with me. She is turning 10

debating between 223 and 223 ai

I already reload for 223 rem, a 75g hornady ELD- M at 2800 is pretty darn good, a bit more speed won’t hurt

what say you? 223 or ai?

 

[KsSkaEnthusiast]

I dont see a reason not to go with ai so long as it is still good to fireform brass out of.

 

[rabid wombat]

Either will be fine…Since you load for the 223 already,, just dial her rifle as close as you can to the round you are already producing. Spend more time shooting, than changing over in reloading!

 

[Chuck R.]

I posted the same sort of question a little while ago:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/something-a-little-different-223ai.896328/

I suppose it really depends on your task/purpose. I'm looking to pick up a little velocity for varmints and already own 5 other .223s, so for me at least the AI makes sense.

IF you're strictly paper punching out to 300-400 or so yards, it might not be worth the extra hassle. I shoot regular .223 in a couple different rifles out to 547yds (steel swinger off my back porch) and with either the 69 or 77 OTMs don't have an issue depending on the wind. As long as it's a known distance I don't have a problem with a little less velocity.

The normal AI benefit of decreased trimming and added brass life may or may not be that important as .223 brass is cheap (free?) and plentiful. I will re-barrel my M7 to .223AI, mostly for a "walking varminter" and I'm going to re-barrel it anyway, so cutting a different chamber isn't a cost factor.

 

[greyling22]

seems like a lot of hassle for and extra 100fps. THAT SAID, I do love an ackley case and if I knew a guy who would ream out my bolt action 223 for free, I'd probably do it just to be weird. or even weirder: 6mm mongoose. https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/6mm-mongoose-7481694

 

[z7]

I’m finding load info on the 223 ai that could get up to 2900fps with a 75-80grn match bullet, others have reported up to 3000fps

the numbers keep that supersonic to 1000yds and where we live now there is opportunity for regular shooting from 100-1000 yds,
A prs match on the east coast is mostly 700 and in, so either is doable and the extra speed is an advantage, which is why I’m considering the ai

 

[WisBorn]

More speed - more wear on the barrel. As a target rifle for a young shooter I would stick with the standard 223. Fast twist barrel for the heavy bullets.

 

[Varminterror]

seems like a lot of hassle

What’s the hassle? Shoot factory ammo or 223rem reloads, bingo, it’s now fireformed. The only “hassle” involved is changing the sizing die, and asking the gunsmith to use a different reamer when chambering the barrel.

 

[greyling22]

Buying a new die, keeping your brass separated, storing and organizing it. All the hassle of a new caliber, with the added confusion of it-looks-a-lot-like one you already have.

It's not a deal breaker, lord knows I have plenty of calibers. I'm building a 300 ham'r for crying out loud, but it is an additional hassle.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

seems like a lot of hassle for and extra 100fps. THAT SAID, I do love an ackley case and if I knew a guy who would ream out my bolt action 223 for free, I'd probably do it just to be weird. or even weirder: 6mm mongoose. https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/6mm-mongoose-7481694

I don't own the Goose BUT I LOVE the Goose. I have a couple of their cartridges and they do everything the say they will do.

 

[highlander 5]

Other point how much for AI dies and turn around time to make them. Things are in short supply as it is and as you said you're already set up for 223.

 

[Barbaroja]

Other point how much for AI dies and turn around time to make them. Things are in short supply as it is and as you said you're already set up for 223.

I got curious about it so……
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!ca=223 Remington Ackley

Seems like they are available, I’d guess because it’s not a super common caliber. Precision reloading had sets from lee and redding.

 

[Skylerbone]

I’m not really up on long range shooting but are you married to those choices? I understand that a 10 year old needs protection from punishing recoil, I just have a difficult time picturing a full custom .223 build with so many other performers out there.

 

[horsemen61]

@Nature Boy maybe you could tell em about that model 12 savage you have if I remember right it shoots pretty good !

 

[Crosshair]

If I need more velocity than a .223, I go to a 22-250.

 

[mgmorden]

Ackley Improved cartridges and extreme handloading were great back when most people could only afford one rifle in their lifetime - often times something surplus that they had little choice in the chambering. Then you were just making do with what you had.

In modern times - honestly it makes more sense to just buy the rifle that matches what you want to do in the first place. If .223 isn't fast enough I'd rather buy a .22-250 than try to hot-rod a smaller case. More FPS isn't always "better" because in physics there's always a cost - more powder, more recoil, more barrel wear, etc. There's also the monetary cost in the real world which is extra money for the gun, dies, etc.

 

[Armorer 101]

My hunting buddy taught all of his four kids to shoot and hunt using his 222. When he died, no one wanted his 222 Sako Vixen, pre Garcia, so I bought it from his widow, figuring one day, they would want it back and I would gift it to his kids. There is no reason the 223 can not be a son or daughter’s first rifle for targets and deer. You teach them to put a bullet where they want and the 223 is quite deadly on deer and paper.

 

[highlander 5]

I got curious about it so……
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!ca=223 Remington Ackley

Seems like they are available, I’d guess because it’s not a super common caliber. Precision reloading had sets from lee and redding.

Redding die set $ 175,stick to 223 you want more speed 22 250 or 220 Swift.

 

[Barbaroja]

Redding die set $ 175,stick to 223 you want more speed 22 250 or 220 Swift.

Lee dies for $40. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Chuck R.]

I’m not really up on long range shooting but are you married to those choices? I understand that a 10 year old needs protection from punishing recoil, I just have a difficult time picturing a full custom .223 build with so many other performers out there.

IMHO it would depend on the range limitations and task/purpose.

In my case I've got access out to 750 yds in my back yard, but I still end up shooting my .223 guns 4-5 times more often than my other precision/target rifles. They're just cheaper to load for, easier to shoot all day, and perfectly capable out to 500+, further with the heavier higher BC bullets.

Sometimes I have friends out to do .223 precision shoots, just because they're more challenging at distance in the wind.

So based on usage, a custom .223 in my case makes sense. What would make less sense to me is a precision set up in 6-6.5 something and being stuck at 300 yds and under like a lot of shooters seem to be. But, different strokes...as it goes.

 

[Skylerbone]

Good points @Chuck R, I saw precision matches ad started thinking about 500+ yards and how to cheat a little more wind. Definitely a bigger expense loading for larger and no benefit for shorter range.

 

[Goosey]

seems like a lot of hassle for and extra 100fps.

Extra 50 fps, perhaps.

 

[Chuck R.]

Extra 50 fps, perhaps.

This was discussed in the thread I started....consensus is more like + 200 FPS for the AI. This article states between 100 & 140 +FPS:

https://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html

Reason Number One is Speed. Depending on the powder, brass, and barrel length, the Ackley version of the .223 Remington will, typically, deliver from 100 to 140 fps more speed with any given bullet. (Light bullets gain more.) That makes a difference, particularly for varminters looking for a flatter trajectory and more explosive effect on target.

Likewise, long-range shooters will benefit from improved ballistics. The AI's greater case capacity will let you run a given bullet faster, or let you step up to a heavier bullet with better BC

 

[Goosey]

This was discussed in the thread I started....consensus is more like + 200 FPS for the AI. This article states between 100 & 140 +FPS:

https://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html

I don't think so. The article shows about an 8% average increase in capacity with the AI over four types of brass. The largest increase was 10%. If we go with the 10% increase that should be about an additional 70 fps.

 

[gotboostvr]

You'll get a little extra speed, but You'll also get better brass life.

If you're spending for nice brass that alone by itself may make it worth your while since I'm assuming this rifle will have its own dedicated load, not just whatever plinking grade 223 you're cranking out for your AR's.