Knife vs. Gun

[Aka Zero]

Faster than a folding knife? You have never seen a pocket catch.
I can get a knife out of my pocket faster than I could ever draw a fixed blade, let alone a gun. I mess with knives a lot... A gun IS better, if only for intimidation. A gun will end a fight faster, usually without a real fight. But I can't CC yet, so I carry fast knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK6lOTz1Ebs&feature=related <- not me in case you were wondering.

 

[JERRY]

aside from poor defensive technique, that is poor POLICE technique.

no where that i know of teaches condition white when checking for a prowler....gun should have been at low ready prior to rounding the corner and raised on the "target" once a subject was spotted....

 

[strambo]

This whole setup really doesn't apply to citizens anyway. The notion that you will be confronting someone at any distance knowing they are a threat ahead of time. Police get called to respond and approach suspects then go from there.

Citizens go about their daily lives and if they get attacked it will (most likely) be sudden and they won't realize there is a potential threat until the the threat is within a few feet. Why? Because if a citizen feels threatened further out...they can just leave/run/turn around/cross the street and the scumbag is forced to pick a less observant victim.

How to deal with a guy charging you with a knife from 10-21 ft with your gun holstered (or drawn) and move/shoot vs. not move vs. retreat...is by and large moot for civilians. What to do when the guy sticks a knife/gun in your face or you get hit from behind or you get struck, then see blood (now realizing you were actually stabbed) is a more appropriate a problem for consideration based on actual crime reports.

Read the "Armed Citizen" stories in the NRA mags, read them in other gun mags, read the crime stories posted here. They are typically not set up and happening like the "hypothetical" problems posted here. There is a disconnect between the reality of a typical violent attack and the training taking place to respond to them.

Just start damaging body parts as soon as you know you are in a violent conflict. If you are able to use a knife or a gun to damage those parts, great. If it happens so close and fast you need to try to move and/or retreat just to get a gun or knife out to then use it...good luck, he's eating your lunch while you are trying to get a tool out. Injure him now via any method, then get a tool out if you must (or can) to finish the job or attend to other threats.

If you know you are facing a person who you think is a deadly threat at 20 feet out...consider it a luxury, then do the whole move and draw thing. I'm not saying that's bad...I'm saying it is an answer to a problem the armed citizen statistically isn't likely to have (though it does happen).

 

[twinhairdryers]

Hidden hands means assumed weapon

I'm not LEO, but i'm 99.9% sure that every LEO officer who is squared off with a guy with his hands behinds his back assumes a handgun or deadly arm is there and has long since drawn his piece in a ready position.

Just a guess, but the law was looking down a loosing situation with a fully holstered service arm. No way this is real except for the guy who likes to show advantage of how fast a blade can work. Could be an ex-con with shive practice? Or somebody selling blades at the flea markets.

 

[Erik]

Its just a training video, folks, trying to illustrate a given point; likely one of many in a series. A dated one, at that from the looks of it.

The most questionable thing in it is the training point concerning unsnapping prior to contact. The goal of police contact being... contact, at which point most of the time you don't shoot, do struggle, and want snaps snapped, hooded rotated in place, etc.

Oh, and I disagree that it isn't relevant. Understanding the dynamics of an edged weapons attack and how they may or may not fit into your firearms and self defense training is very relevant. (And the forums full of folks who might not understand it.)

 

[meef]

Gun beats knife. club beats knife. Chair beats knife. monkey wrench beats knife. 9 iron beats knife.

Basically everything except nothing beats a knife.

Naive.

 

[mtruette]

Knife? Gun?

Their is a saying "never carry a knife to a gun fight". In this video it did show how fast a knife attack can be. The point in the video is in my oppinion to first defend from the knife attack as you are preparing to use your pistol. A few slashes in a non threatening area is better than standing still and getting your throat are abdomen opened up. Move, defend, draw and shoot (then go get stitched up).

 

[benEzra]

For those thinking that "everything beats a knife," the attacks by the guy in the black shirt in that video (also shown below, 22 seconds in) should counter that perception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THW-c6E5nvs

"Dojo overhand icepick" is NOT what you should be training against. If someone like that attacks you with a blade, and your response is to stand motionless and try to draw, you are screwed.

Don't underestimate a knife. For me personally, I am more concerned about the criminal with a knife than the criminal with a gun, because (1) the gun guy is more likely to open with threats instead of initiating the confrontation with potentially lethal force, and (2) the gun-wielding attacker is less likely to use a rushing grappling/contact attack, I would expect.

BTW, here's an interesting law enforcement study on knives and observations from force-on-force training:

http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/EDGED WEAPON TACTICS AND COUNTER TACTICS.doc

 

[mercop]

At conversation distance a knife knows no equal. I think knife fighting is bull**** and break what I do down into two parts. Spontaneous Attack Survival and using a knife to defend yourself. The problem with edged weapon defense is that it is perpetuated with traditional martial artists practicing traditional knife on knife training. Research shows that the vast majority of people report that they thought they were being punched when in fact they were being stabbed. If you base your defense on seeing the knife you are too late. You need to understand the prerperatory and execution movements of a knife attack and practice them even though it hurts and will not make you look cool.