The proper role of a knife in personal protection.

[Pendragon]

I am not a big knife person.

I carry a neat 3 bladed pocket knife (non locking) that my grandfather gave me when I was about 10. Its very handy and sentimental.

I have a couple lockback knives that I have carried from time to time - in California I carried one a lot because I would go walking with my baby boy and there were always dogs...

You cannot open a gun magazine without seeing many knife advertisements. Some of the knives seem to cost about as much as some guns. Thats fine, I understand paying for quality and workmanship.

However, carrying a knife for self defense makes me uneasy. I grew up in rural Alaska and California and we always had knives, but I always saw them as tools more than weapons (yeah, I know, weapon = tool).

I took just enough martial arts when I was younger to know that a knife is an extension of your hands and you better know what you are doing or you could seriously injure yourself. We always hear this about guns, but I think you are MUCH more likely to hurt yourself with a knife and I think its much harder to become proficient with a knife. After all, who goes to the knife range to slice up targets?

I am not opposed to having a knife, if I did not have a gun, I would be glad of a knife but I think as a weapon, it's much more of a wild card.

So - you people who are into these fancy combat knives - what is your training level and what do you see your knife being used for in a self defense scenario (because I find stuff to cut open all the time, but I dont need a $250 titanium coated lockback to open boxes).

I am really curious, because I can't help but feel that a lot of people are kidding themselves about what they are going to do with their knife. No - not saying you should not have it...

 

[jsalcedo]

I agree.

I have used knives as tools, recieving clerk, cooking, camping and also knife throwing for fun.

However, I just can't see myself using one as a weapon without formal training. If I had to use a knife for self defense I would. But getting that close I would be worried about retention.

I like knives and have a few but they are just for show or utility.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Never been in a knife fight, but just my opinion. I'm no expert, so CYBYWY.

In Hong Kong subway engagement distances, I rather have a knife than a pistol for several reasons:
1. Doesn't have to be in battery to work and doesn't need space to work (like semi-auto pistols, I never studied the revolver)
2. If you touchey, they ouchie.
3. More difficult to disarm.
4. Can go more places.
5. Depending on model and method of carry, can be quicker to deploy up close.

I was squeamish about knives at first but I looked back and remembered I felt the same way about my first gun.

As for training level, I only have about 26 hours, 2/3s of it on the Karambit.

Of all things, I got into knives because of photography.

Downside is you need a buddy who doesn't mind pain in their forearm to get practice.

 

[El Tejon]

"After all, who goes to the knife range to slice up targets." Ummm, well, you know, er . . . I do. Practice edged weapons fighting in boxing club. However, most of my knife experience comes from opening boxes from Pottery Barn.

Pen, this is not unique to knives. We see it all the time with firearms. Knives are more of a totem of the gun culture. A "must have" for the "in" crowd. Whether people are kidding themselves or not, it depends on the person. A lot of people kid themselves with believing that possession equates to competence in firearms--no reason knives are any different.

I've always wanted to see a graph as to the amount of money expended upon the knife or knives vs. the amount expended for instruction. Maybe I'll post a poll--I'll have to reference bears to ensure I get a lot of responses though.

 

[BerettaNut92]

El T, best blade shape and length, serrated or plain edge for defense against bears?

Pen, this is not unique to knives. We see it all the time with firearms. Knives are more of a totem of the gun culture. A "must have" for the "in" crowd. Whether people are kidding themselves or not, it depends on the person. A lot of people kid themselves with believing that possession equates to competence in firearms--no reason knives are any different.

Or guitars.

 

[Soap]

Of course with any martial tool, the knife is only truly effective if you train with it. As for me, my training background is empty hand martial arts since I was 7 or so. This training did not include any practical knifefighting. But, right now I study Wing Chun (and weapons) under a gentleman who was up until recently an SFer. We do some knife training...which is downright scary. Most people underestimate the sheer effectiveness of a trained knifefighter up close. My future training plans include training with Robin Brown, James Keating, or Steve Tarani.

Concerning self-defense applications, I can only think of two. One being that I use it in a area where I'm not permitted to carry a gun, like Kali. Another application is as a backup to your gun. For example, the BG is close to you, he gets his arms around you right above your pistol, you draw your knife that you can reach and change his mind.

 

[scotjute]

Don't know that I'm into to fancy combat knives, but I do prefer sheath knives over folders, have several from in the 3 1/2 - 6" range. Basically I consider a knife as a self-defense tool of last resort. What's the old saying : "There are no winners in a knife fight, only survivors".
Usually when hiking in State or National Parks only have a walking stick and sheath knife with me. (I don't normally cavort thru grizzly country either!) The only training I've had is about 1 1/2 years in fencing, which I thoroughly enjoy and still practice.
Quite agree with you that a firearm is the only serious weapon of defense to consider in this country. But elsewhere in the world where access to firearms is limited, knives, machetes, and clubs are the commonly used weapons of self-defense.

 

[RustyHammer]

I ALWAYS have a knive on me ... more for practical purposes than self-defense, however.

Guess I'm just old fashioned!

Larry

 

[El Tejon]

Dan, yeah, it's scary, especially when you put the plastic training knife up my nose! "Get trained up!"

Skunk, the smaller the knife the better against bears. That way when you are boasting of your imaginary encounter at the gun shoppe you can point to the smallest blade length and say . . . "that's all you need."

 

[Graystar]

Living in NY, I have no choice but to carry a knife for personal defense. I carry a Benchmade Axis 710HSSR, and I can go from pocket to opened and ready for action in about 1 second.

 

[El Tejon]

Gray, I thought Big Tim Sullivan's law covered sharp pointy things.

Please enlighten us.

 

[feedthehogs]

I have carried pocketknives forever and they are used on a daily basis as a utility tool.
While hunting, fixed blade knives are carried also as a useful tool.

I do always carry a folder when on leisure time and while carrying a firearm to be used as a possible backup defensive tool depending on the situation.

I have had some defense training against knives from George Dillman using pressure points.

I took what I learned and sort of reversed the training to use knives as an offensive tool.

Like some of my firearms, I do have knives that are considered collectable and appreciate in value over the years and sit in the safe. Just like coins or stamps.

Most people that go to the range and practice and hit targets well for self defense purposes would fail in a pressure, adrenalin flowing self-defense situation.

Unless you receive intense under pressure live fire training designed to help you control your emotion and thought process then the same thinking about knife training would apply. Why bother carrying a gun.
Static training doesn't prepare you for real world situations.

It ultimately is to give you an edge or up your percentage of survival during an attack.

, but I dont need a $250 titanium coated lockback to open boxes).

Need has nothing to do with it. Nobody needs a car that can go 150mph.
Its what you want and can afford.

 

[Gunhamr]

Was issued a Marine Raider stiletto in '43 before shipping out for the islands but they were later recalled because of defects in design and replaced by the trusty Kabar. The Kabar was very useful for opening
K ration boxes and C ration cans as well as digging holes and even for
occasional use against an enemy as a last resort. If you let him get
within knife range, you have messed up somewhere.

 

[Graystar]

Tejon, the law applies to knives with a blade longer than 4". The 710 blade is listed as 3.9"

 

[Hutch]

Other than a multi-tool or Victorinox Swiss Army knife, I don't have much use for them. I am under absolutely no illusions about being able to defend myself with a blade. In a real knife-fight, I'd be gutted and spitted in an eyeblink. If it falls in the pot during one of those rare instances when I ain't otherwise heeled, then it'll be hand to hand, 'cause I'm too old and fat to flee.

All that being said, they (knives) are handy as tools. Would hate to be without one, just can't imagine deploying it as a weapon.

 

[Gabe]

I carry the Al Mar SERE 2000. Very good knife for camping and daily carry, highly recommend it.

A folding knife isn't the first choice of self defense of course, I'd perfer a pistol or baton before the knife, but we don't always get our first choice. My knife is a tool first, but it's sure useful when some guy is sitting over your stomach beating your face in. It's also a lot more useful than a stick if you arrive at the scene of a car wreck. The knife is a last ditch life preserver, me getting cut in the process is the least of my concerns.

 

[Smoke]

I have had some (some= not much) training in the defense against and the offensive use of knives.

Enough to convince me I don't want any part of a knife fight. Nobody is going to come out of a knife fight with out some cuts.


EL T

yeah, it's scary, especially when you put the plastic training knife up my nose!

I had my instructor use me as a dummy (appropriate in hindsight). He demonstrated a defensive move that involved cutting my wrist, jugular vein, and femoral artery about as fast as you can blink.

What happened was: he took the training "knife" and slapped my wrist, left a welt on my jaw and took out my .....ummm.... jewels.

Knife training hurts without knives!

 

[sensei]

I have been teaching the Martial Arts for 35 years now. I am a certified knife fighting instructor. There are a cou;le of things to be aware of.

1. If the other guy has a knife...you WILL get cut and you WILL bleed. When you see your own blood, you will freak out.

2. In a knife fighting senerio you will be in slow motion...he will be in fast forward.

3.No matter how prepared you think you are...you are not!

4.If you are going to use a knife for self defense..you better start training NOW!

5.I have students I tell...You are better off not pulling your knife, you will only hurt yourself.

P.S. All of my weapon students are already at least 1st degee Black Belts. So you would think they would be abe to jump right in. Sadly that is not the case.

P.P.S. One of the best weapons you can carry is a CANE. It can be carried anywhere and it is deadly.

sensei

 

[MikeK]

I've carried a knife daily since I was 8. I view it primarily as a tool, however it could be used as a weapon. I enjoy my knives as much as my guns. I have one collectible that cost more than some of my guns and my everyday folder cost more than two of them. The least expensive brand of firearm I own is Ruger.

I think it was on bladeforums that I read "The winner of a knife fight is the one that gets out of the hospital first."

 

[Sunray]

If you ever get into a situation where you must defend yourself with a knife, you have done some terribly wrong. Even worse than if you have defend yourself with a handgun.

 

[Kjay]

Seems to me that all the issues of using a knife for self-protection apply to practicall any other weapon. Packing a pistol won't put lead on target when needed. I personally don't think a knife is an ideal SD tool but much better than nothing in a pinch. I suspect most potential opponents aren't going to be versed in the "subtleties" of knife fighting and most folks seem to have a natural aversion to getting cut. I ususally carry a folder and would use it for SD if needed.

 

[P12]

I carry a knife so I might do better than my finger nails right before I die.

 

[Country Boy]

I've always heard, if you're in a knife fight, expect to get cut.

I'm not a fan of knives as self-defense items, but they are another option on the force continuum. I would much rather have a gun, a backup, or pepper spray, but if it came down to it, I'd use a well-built knife. I would guess that most people who carry a knife and would use it for self defense need MUCH more training.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I carried a self-defense knife when I lived in the People's Republic of California, but now that I live in the United States again, I carry a pocket knife. I doubt I'd be any handier with a knife than my fists in a fight.

 

[Teufelhunden]

II've always carried a blade of some kind, starting with Swiss Army knives. I progressed into tactical folders once I started carrying concealed, which is also right around when I started working armed security.

I don't consider my knife to be an offensive weapon. It rides on my weak side, and is there for weapon retention purposes. Should someone grab hold of my holstered weapon (more likely scenario while carrying openly) and refuses to be easily removed, it's my plan to carve them off. Stong side hard traps weapon in place, a couple of cuts are delivered from the weak side, situation is reassesed. Repeat as necessary. It may not be a perfect plan, but until I go to the academy and they (hopefully) teach me a better way to keep my weapon, I'll stick with it.

-Teuf