Lack of Respect for the 10mm

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I see the 10mm as a "pleasure" or "fun" round. Sure, it has good ballistics, but it doesn't do anything special.

Ammunition is incredibly expensive if you don't reload, and it lacks an available premium round such as the Federal Tactical HST, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger-T, etc. It also gives you a beating if you shoot it for an extended period of time.

I can see why some people like it, and I can see how some don't. Then again I can say that for any caliber! :D
 
The 10mm can be loaded to 1275 with a 200 gr. FMJ easily within SAAMI specs. It also does'nt need as much barrel as a 357 mag to get there. 1375 for a 180 and 1300 for a 200 fromma 5" tube is about max. A 200 @ 1250 is a very safe load in a 4" - 4.5" barrel with the right powder.

Some say 10mm is good for 200 - 300 FPS over .40 but I think 150 - 250 is more realistic from barrels 4" and under.
 
I love my two 10s. My Delta had been my woods gun for almost 20 years, until it was retired to the safe in favor of a Glock 29. The G is great for what I use it for, but that Delta would be the last in my collection to go.
 
I'm a little skeptical of 1275fps/200gr FMJ bullet. Anyone loading something like that? I believe it is possible with a hardcast lead bullet, but the poster above is a little misleading. If you are loading to those specs, I'd sure like to know how you are doing it.
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You needn't be skeptical.

DT loads the Hornady 200gn FMJ-FP to 1275fps/722fpe, and that's from a 4.6" stock G20. I've gotten just a tad under 1300fps shooting that load from my S&W 1006's 5" Bar-Sto barrel.

Experienced 10mm handloaders can easily equal that, or better.

:cool:
 
Colt Delta Elite owner here, and I love it for carry around the ranch because I know it can and has knocked down and killed every large animal I shot at - handily. It's a magnum round and I hear it will kill big bears. I know it kills big boars. The recoil is less than my .357 magnum (felt) and the report from the blast is easier on my ears too.
 
RE: Load data. O.K., as I suspected, 200fmj bullets and a max of about 1200 fps is all that has ever been published, and that is pushing it. Yes, you CAN achieve more, if you don't like your gun or brass much. The original Norma loading was publicized at exactly that, 200grains @1200, but it soon was regarded as too hot, and Norma discontinued it. No big name ammo companies have duplicated the hot load, only small outfits like Double Tap, and that may be still a little risky, but living on the edge sells (DT may be willing to take the risk of liability to market a load that others won't). Lead bullets can be pushed higher, with less pressure, but FMJ's are at a different pressure level at any given velocity than lead. I don't mind the occasional hot load, carefully crafted, and using new brass, but a steady diet of stuff off the charts in manuals is probably not a good idea, even in a robust gun with a supported barrel. Everything has its limits.
 
RE: Load data. O.K., as I suspected, 200fmj bullets and a max of about 1200 fps is all that has ever been published, and that is pushing it. Yes, you CAN achieve more, if you don't like your gun or brass much. The original Norma loading was publicized at exactly that, 200grains @1200, but it soon was regarded as too hot, and Norma discontinued it. No big name ammo companies have duplicated the hot load, only small outfits like Double Tap, and that may be still a little risky, but living on the edge sells (DT may be willing to take the risk of liability to market a load that others won't). Lead bullets can be pushed higher, with less pressure, but FMJ's are at a different pressure level at any given velocity than lead. I don't mind the occasional hot load, carefully crafted, and using new brass, but a steady diet of stuff off the charts in manuals is probably not a good idea, even in a robust gun with a supported barrel. Everything has its limits.
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Not at all correct, and some of your statements reveal an ignorance of the history of the 10mm cartridge. :rolleyes:

"200gns @ 1200fps" was the load Norma marketed (after actually getting safe velocities @ 1250fps) with the then-available powders of the early to mid-1980s. Might want to start by reading this book on the 10mm Bren Ten pistol, which also details the 10mm's development:

http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id85.html

Some 20+ yrs later, McNett (and others) achieved higher velocities @ 1250-1275fps w/ the 200gn slugs using hybrid powders that safely kept pressures within SAAMI levels. These hybrid powders weren't available in the early Norma 10mm era.

Such propellants really aren't a "new" idea either, as Hornady developed their "light magnum" line of rifle ammo from a special blend of powders, not necessarily off-the-shelf stuff.

:cool:
 
I respectfully disagree with the OP. We can all agree that the most important factor in self defense shooting is shot placement over caliber (assuming standard self defense calibers are used - .380, 9x18, 9x19, .38, .357, .40, .45, 10mm, etc.).

However, the 10mm offers so many disadvantages that it's painfully obvious why it's not commonly used.

1) Too rare and pricey - which leads to less practice which leads to less accuracy
2) Not as many choices for HD ammo
3) WAAYYY too hot for most shooters and platforms.
4) Too large for most people's comfortable grip.

I'm 6'1, athletic and have large hands (can palm a basketball). Been shooting for 15 years and am in the military. I used to own a G20, full size 10mm pistol. I found it to be awkwardly large grip and too hot to fire accurately. And the ammo broke the bank. I kept asking myself "why bother?" 9x19 or .40 or .45 is plenty good enough, much more common, and if I do my job, the common ammo will do its job.
 
However, the 10mm offers so many disadvantages that it's painfully obvious why it's not commonly used.

1) Too rare and pricey - which leads to less practice which leads to less accuracy
2) Not as many choices for HD ammo
3) WAAYYY too hot for most shooters and platforms.
4) Too large for most people's comfortable grip.
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1) 10mm ammunition is more pricey than .40S&W for sure, but not that much more expensive -- about $0.50 per round versus $0.30 for CCI Blazer. If that's a deal-breaker then you're probably better off with a .22.

2) Maybe not as many choices but certainly enough. How many different choices do you need? I shoot Blazer for practice & Silver-Tips for SD, but there are several others and at least one place I know that will do custom loads.

3) I really have to disagree with this one. I read this over & over before buying my first 10mm and went to the range with some real trepidation. Much to my surprise I found the recoil little more than my .40S&W and I'm certainly not overly athletic. I'm 62, 6' 0", out of shape & definitely can not palm a basketball. On the other hand, I'm not shooting a plastic pistol either -- S&W 1006 & S&W 1066.

4) The grip on the 1006 & 1066 definitely is larger than most, but I'm able to shoot it comfortably. (Although, I can't reach the slide release without shifting my grip.) Heck, my wife fired two magazines worth this past weekend.

I think a lot of the criticism of 10mm is a self-perpetuating myth that just keeps getting passed around by people who've never fired one. When you look at the, so called, FBI load, most 40's & 45's these days are stronger, but no one complains about them.

Cheers!

cmr
 
Well, we've been corrected on history, and heard a lot of philosophy, but where is the loading date for getting a 200 grain jacketed bullet over 1200fps safely? Still waiting........:rolleyes:
 
Picked that bad boy up today. Doesn't show much evidence of having been fired. Even the breech face looks damn near to pristine. It does have a pretty fair amount of congealed oil besmirching it, so some cleaning is in order. So, who is going to teach me the secret handshake and the password?
 
Congrats Joe. The initiation is that first shot. A grin on your face means you got the secret handshake and password. :cool:
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
Well, we've been corrected on history, and heard a lot of philosophy, but where is the loading date for getting a 200 grain jacketed bullet over 1200fps safely? Still waiting........:rolleyes:
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Right. If you are really getting 1200ft/s with a 200gr bullet, you are doing well and would be smart to leave it at that. Is another 50-75ft/s going to make any difference?

I think if I had a pet hotload I would NOT post it on the internet for public consumption. You never know when some dunce is going to use your data to blow up their gun. Lawyers and Insurance companies can be a real pain.

Personally, if I want hotloads for my G20, I will buy them from a reputable manufacturer like Double-Tap, Buffalo Bore etc. Yes, they are expensive, but how many of them are you really going to shoot? Most of the stuff I have put thru my G20 is basically .40S&W +100ft/s. Its not all that hot, but why would you need it to be for practice ammo? I handload to save money on practice ammo, and to make the occasional hunting load, not to test the pressure rating on my gun.

That's just my 0.02$
 
Just to add another item can change pressure...
Crimp, not enough, get bullet pushed back some = higher pressure, bullet crimped very tight = same thing:what:

When working in that zone of very high pressures you need to be very careful:evil:
 
That's my point. When the word "safely" is mentioned, all of a sudden everyone backs off the top end load data, and justifieably so. It CAN be done, and some small manufacturers are doing it, but I wonder just how "safely", as any of those factors can get disastrous results from a "factory" load, too.
 
I am considering the Glock 29 ( 10mm ) for a woods guns, but would also like to use the same gun for home defense, and is why the Ruger SP101 seems to be a better choice..
38 specials for the home and 357 magnum for black bear defense..
The 10mm seems to be ( I hate saying this ) too much power for the home. What ammo could I get that lightens the 10mm load down to where I will not shoot my neighbor.. ( unless he is the one breaking into my house ) Yes I am smart enough to realize that the only way it is too much power is if I miss.. but then again the 10 seems to be a beast of a caliber and I may be forced to unleash it before fully comfortable with it..
 
ruger9315 said:
I am considering the Glock 29 ( 10mm ) for a woods guns, but would also like to use the same gun for home defense, and is why the Ruger SP101 seems to be a better choice..
38 specials for the home and 357 magnum for black bear defense..
The 10mm seems to be ( I hate saying this ) too much power for the home. What ammo could I get that lightens the 10mm load down to where I will not shoot my neighbor.. ( unless he is the one breaking into my house ) Yes I am smart enough to realize that the only way it is too much power is if I miss.. but then again the 10 seems to be a beast of a caliber and I may be forced to unleash it before fully comfortable with it..
Click to expand...

180gr Hornady XTP loaded to 1180fps. Its in between full power 10mm and 40s&w on the power scale
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=326255
 
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