Lock your doors!
- Thread starter TallPine
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FYI, it seems everything in the article quoted by the OP has been removed from the latest version. Someone copied the original, better, version in post #5. Don't bother reading the "new" one.
See:
http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4812699&postcount=5
See:
http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4812699&postcount=5
"Idaho jury hears horrid detail of family murders
By The Associated Press
BOISE, Idaho - The crime was meticulously planned, the killer choreographing every step from his surveillance of the doomed family to the videotaped torture of one of his youngest victims.
Yet something as simple as a locked back door, or fiercer family dogs, might have turned Joseph Edward Duncan III away.
Duncan's federal sentencing hearing opened Wednesday with U.S. Attorney Thomas Moss outlining how the convicted pedophile terrorized the Groene family, all because he wanted to "live out his fantasy" and exact revenge on society for perceived wrongs.
Duncan pleaded guilty last year to 10 federal charges in the kidnapping of two siblings, ages 8 and 9, and the murder of the older child. The jury will determine whether he should serve life in prison or be executed.
Moss told jurors they'd have to watch video footage of the sexual torture of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, filmed shortly before Duncan killed him.
Duncan forced 8-year-old Shasta Groene, the sole survivor, to watch the video. He also made her watch as he killed her brother, jurors were told.
Duncan, who is representing himself, told the jury Wednesday that most of what Moss said was fair and accurate "up to the point of what occurred at the campground."
He said he would testify so he could try to "clarify things."
His standby legal counsel, Judy Clarke, has said Duncan doesn't plan to offer any mitigation, such as evidence of his own traumatic childhood.
Shasta's videotaped statements to police will tell her story in court. It's not known if she will offer a victim impact statement.
Duncan's past is littered with arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, Calif.
In 2005, he went to Idaho. Duncan broke into the Groenes' Coeur d'Alene home, bludgeoning 13-year-old Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie, before abducting Shasta and Dylan. Duncan has already pleaded guilty in state court for the three murders; the federal case concerns the crimes against Shasta and Dylan.
Duncan had researched police investigation procedures and took steps to avoid getting caught, Moss told jurors. He bought too-large tennis shoes at a thrift store so no bloody footprints would lead police to him. He wiped down shotgun shells before loading them so there'd be no fingerprints. He loaded the first shot with BB pellets because he thought he'd have to shoot the family dogs and didn't necessarily want to kill them.
He had a video camera, a computer and a GPS device filled with locations he thought would be handy, such as potential campsites, Moss said. He brought with him the framing hammer he used to bludgeon the older victims.
On the night of the murders, Duncan crept across a field to the home, using a low-visibility red-bulb flashlight to guide his way. He peered into a window and saw the children sleeping. One of the family dogs saw him and growled, frightening him enough that he retreated to the fence, Moss said.
"He made a decision: 'If that back door is locked, I'm going to abort,'" Moss said Duncan later told police.
When he turned the handle, it opened. Then the terror began.
The dogs scurried away when they saw Duncan's gun, Moss said. Duncan bound the family, took the youngest children outside and beat the others to death.
Then he drove away with Dylan and Shasta, making sure they knew he had killed their relatives as he headed into the Montana wilderness.
The trio camped for several weeks at the end of a remote road. When Duncan left the camp, he tied the children to a tree with a dog chain.
On June 22, 2005, Duncan left Shasta at the camp, taking Dylan to a cabin, where he videotaped himself sexually abusing and torturing the boy.
"Heinous, cruel and depraved are tough words in the English language, but none of these words ... fully express the outrage of what you will see," Moss told jurors.
After they returned to the campsite, the first thing Duncan did was show Shasta the video, Moss said.
Then, at some point during the next four days, Shasta heard a gunshot and turned to see Dylan clutching his stomach where he'd been hit. She watched as Duncan walked over to Dylan, held the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The gun didn't fire, Moss said, so Duncan reloaded and fired again.
Duncan wrapped the body in a tarp, threw it on the campfire and let it burn until it was reduced to ashes. He then took Shasta back to Coeur d'Alene, stopping for a meal at a Denny's restaurant, where a waitress recognized the girl and called police.
Dylan "deserves the justice that only you can provide," Moss told the jury"
What a tragedy.
This mistake of God should be hung by his ankles and beaten to death with a golf club starting at his privates.
__________________
By The Associated Press
BOISE, Idaho - The crime was meticulously planned, the killer choreographing every step from his surveillance of the doomed family to the videotaped torture of one of his youngest victims.
Yet something as simple as a locked back door, or fiercer family dogs, might have turned Joseph Edward Duncan III away.
Duncan's federal sentencing hearing opened Wednesday with U.S. Attorney Thomas Moss outlining how the convicted pedophile terrorized the Groene family, all because he wanted to "live out his fantasy" and exact revenge on society for perceived wrongs.
Duncan pleaded guilty last year to 10 federal charges in the kidnapping of two siblings, ages 8 and 9, and the murder of the older child. The jury will determine whether he should serve life in prison or be executed.
Moss told jurors they'd have to watch video footage of the sexual torture of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, filmed shortly before Duncan killed him.
Duncan forced 8-year-old Shasta Groene, the sole survivor, to watch the video. He also made her watch as he killed her brother, jurors were told.
Duncan, who is representing himself, told the jury Wednesday that most of what Moss said was fair and accurate "up to the point of what occurred at the campground."
He said he would testify so he could try to "clarify things."
His standby legal counsel, Judy Clarke, has said Duncan doesn't plan to offer any mitigation, such as evidence of his own traumatic childhood.
Shasta's videotaped statements to police will tell her story in court. It's not known if she will offer a victim impact statement.
Duncan's past is littered with arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, Calif.
In 2005, he went to Idaho. Duncan broke into the Groenes' Coeur d'Alene home, bludgeoning 13-year-old Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie, before abducting Shasta and Dylan. Duncan has already pleaded guilty in state court for the three murders; the federal case concerns the crimes against Shasta and Dylan.
Duncan had researched police investigation procedures and took steps to avoid getting caught, Moss told jurors. He bought too-large tennis shoes at a thrift store so no bloody footprints would lead police to him. He wiped down shotgun shells before loading them so there'd be no fingerprints. He loaded the first shot with BB pellets because he thought he'd have to shoot the family dogs and didn't necessarily want to kill them.
He had a video camera, a computer and a GPS device filled with locations he thought would be handy, such as potential campsites, Moss said. He brought with him the framing hammer he used to bludgeon the older victims.
On the night of the murders, Duncan crept across a field to the home, using a low-visibility red-bulb flashlight to guide his way. He peered into a window and saw the children sleeping. One of the family dogs saw him and growled, frightening him enough that he retreated to the fence, Moss said.
"He made a decision: 'If that back door is locked, I'm going to abort,'" Moss said Duncan later told police.
When he turned the handle, it opened. Then the terror began.
The dogs scurried away when they saw Duncan's gun, Moss said. Duncan bound the family, took the youngest children outside and beat the others to death.
Then he drove away with Dylan and Shasta, making sure they knew he had killed their relatives as he headed into the Montana wilderness.
The trio camped for several weeks at the end of a remote road. When Duncan left the camp, he tied the children to a tree with a dog chain.
On June 22, 2005, Duncan left Shasta at the camp, taking Dylan to a cabin, where he videotaped himself sexually abusing and torturing the boy.
"Heinous, cruel and depraved are tough words in the English language, but none of these words ... fully express the outrage of what you will see," Moss told jurors.
After they returned to the campsite, the first thing Duncan did was show Shasta the video, Moss said.
Then, at some point during the next four days, Shasta heard a gunshot and turned to see Dylan clutching his stomach where he'd been hit. She watched as Duncan walked over to Dylan, held the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The gun didn't fire, Moss said, so Duncan reloaded and fired again.
Duncan wrapped the body in a tarp, threw it on the campfire and let it burn until it was reduced to ashes. He then took Shasta back to Coeur d'Alene, stopping for a meal at a Denny's restaurant, where a waitress recognized the girl and called police.
Dylan "deserves the justice that only you can provide," Moss told the jury"
What a tragedy.
This mistake of God should be hung by his ankles and beaten to death with a golf club starting at his privates.
__________________
bdickens
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....
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SSN Vet
Member
I've read enough detail about this horrible event to turn my hair gray three times over.....
I think about this monster and that family very, very often. As I do the two cat burglers in CT who raped and burned their victims alive.
Two things that are especially troubling to me are:
1. he singled out this family because he saw the cute kids playing in the yard.
2. he conducted surveilance for several days before he attacked
We now lock our doors and windows religiously.
When I leave for work in the a.m., I lock the door. Even though I know my wife will be leaving to take the kids to school just 15 min. later. My routine is so regular, it would be a breeze for this type of pedophile pervert to figure it out and wait for me to drive by in the a.m.
I have three daughters who all turn heads. Fortunately, our house is set back in a wooded lot and is not visable from any street and live in a very low crime small town in a very low crime state. But I'm no longer letting that lull me into a false sense of security.
I often carry in my own home.
When I'm tinkering in the basement, I open the door on the RSC so that a weapon is readilly available.
Basically, we watch our kids lke a hawk. Fortunately, we have several acres and they can have quite a bit of freedom and still be far away from the public eye.
None the less....
dead bolts are being reinforced.
an extra motion sensor light has gone up.
long term projects.....
get my wife out shooting more
a second gun vault for the first floor
a family dog
and if I had the money....
a remote control gate with intercom at the end of the drive (~800' through the woods)
I think about this monster and that family very, very often. As I do the two cat burglers in CT who raped and burned their victims alive.
Two things that are especially troubling to me are:
1. he singled out this family because he saw the cute kids playing in the yard.
2. he conducted surveilance for several days before he attacked
We now lock our doors and windows religiously.
When I leave for work in the a.m., I lock the door. Even though I know my wife will be leaving to take the kids to school just 15 min. later. My routine is so regular, it would be a breeze for this type of pedophile pervert to figure it out and wait for me to drive by in the a.m.
I have three daughters who all turn heads. Fortunately, our house is set back in a wooded lot and is not visable from any street and live in a very low crime small town in a very low crime state. But I'm no longer letting that lull me into a false sense of security.
I often carry in my own home.
When I'm tinkering in the basement, I open the door on the RSC so that a weapon is readilly available.
Basically, we watch our kids lke a hawk. Fortunately, we have several acres and they can have quite a bit of freedom and still be far away from the public eye.
None the less....
dead bolts are being reinforced.
an extra motion sensor light has gone up.
long term projects.....
get my wife out shooting more
a second gun vault for the first floor
a family dog
and if I had the money....
a remote control gate with intercom at the end of the drive (~800' through the woods)
SSN Vet
Member
....
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True confessions time.
I have always been a staunch advocate of locking the house doors - when we are asleep or away. We have a couple of big dogs and various loaded firearms in the home, and we are both prepared to use them if needed.
Occasionally my wife goes out in the afternoon running erands or occasionally to hang out with a friend. She is not always good about telling me when she is coming home, I just see her when I see her, no big deal. Last night was one such occasion. It's about 7pm, I'm sitting on the sofa looking away from the front door, watching a little tube. I hear her rummaging thru the mail box, then I hear the screen door open... I turn around and GUESS WHAT - it isn't HER! Some guy is standing there with his face hanging out, holding the door open.
I said "EXCUSE ME - CAN I HELP YOU?" and he replies "I'm looking for so-n-so..." While he stands there our new puppy scampers out the door and towards the street. I chase after her, calling over my shoulder "He's not here, you want next door". With a very unhappy look on my face I come back with the puppy and say "You shouldn't go around opening people's doors, y'know" "sorry" he mumbled and headed next door.
I later learned that this NINNYHAMMER works at the DOJ.
Now, I spent the evening pretty ticked off about this. Ticked that he can't knock or ring the doorbell. Ticked that he felt ok with rummaging thru my mail box. Ticked that he endangered a member of my household (Tegan, the puppy). Even MORE ticked that as someone who participates in the Justice system, he didn't see anything wrong with what he did (a less sincere "sorry" I have never heard). But after thinking about it all night, I came to the realization that more than anything, I'm ticked at myself - for not locking the outer door, for not having a firearm handy, for trusting the dog to alert me, for not training the dog to react to a stranger on our porch, etc.
I'm going to be making some changes... and yes they include LOCKING THE DOOR even when we are home and awake.
I have always been a staunch advocate of locking the house doors - when we are asleep or away. We have a couple of big dogs and various loaded firearms in the home, and we are both prepared to use them if needed.
Occasionally my wife goes out in the afternoon running erands or occasionally to hang out with a friend. She is not always good about telling me when she is coming home, I just see her when I see her, no big deal. Last night was one such occasion. It's about 7pm, I'm sitting on the sofa looking away from the front door, watching a little tube. I hear her rummaging thru the mail box, then I hear the screen door open... I turn around and GUESS WHAT - it isn't HER! Some guy is standing there with his face hanging out, holding the door open.
I said "EXCUSE ME - CAN I HELP YOU?" and he replies "I'm looking for so-n-so..." While he stands there our new puppy scampers out the door and towards the street. I chase after her, calling over my shoulder "He's not here, you want next door". With a very unhappy look on my face I come back with the puppy and say "You shouldn't go around opening people's doors, y'know" "sorry" he mumbled and headed next door.
I later learned that this NINNYHAMMER works at the DOJ.
Now, I spent the evening pretty ticked off about this. Ticked that he can't knock or ring the doorbell. Ticked that he felt ok with rummaging thru my mail box. Ticked that he endangered a member of my household (Tegan, the puppy). Even MORE ticked that as someone who participates in the Justice system, he didn't see anything wrong with what he did (a less sincere "sorry" I have never heard). But after thinking about it all night, I came to the realization that more than anything, I'm ticked at myself - for not locking the outer door, for not having a firearm handy, for trusting the dog to alert me, for not training the dog to react to a stranger on our porch, etc.
I'm going to be making some changes... and yes they include LOCKING THE DOOR even when we are home and awake.
macadore
Member
....
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Going through the mailbox....somethings fishy.
Why would this person be going through your mailbox? How sure of his credentials are you? Sounds like "casing" or possible identity theft.
I have caught someone in my mail box. He held up some flyer humane society or something. Said he was dropping it off. Fast forward 2 weeks later, Mastercard is wanting confirmation on my new credit card that I did not order.
TallPine
Member
I really wish folks would leave off the punishment speculations about the perpetrator, and stay on-topic (home security).
Some things we can learn from this:
1) True Evil really does exist
2) "Random" home invasions do occur (the victims apparently had no association with the perpetrator)
3) The victims apparently had little or no concern or plan for home security, or at least were extremely lax about it.
We had a "near-miss" situation a few years ago while our daughters were still home. The former neighbor and/or his felonious friends were apparently stalking our daughters and hiding in our yard area to do something evil. My daughter's little Sheltie found him hiding behind the pony haystack and raised a ruckus, and she dashed back inside before any harm could happen. The creep ran off to his/their car and sped off after being discovered. I spent the rest of that winter getting up at 5am every morning and clearing the yard in the dark with a rifle and a light.
Some things we can learn from this:
1) True Evil really does exist
2) "Random" home invasions do occur (the victims apparently had no association with the perpetrator)
3) The victims apparently had little or no concern or plan for home security, or at least were extremely lax about it.
We had a "near-miss" situation a few years ago while our daughters were still home. The former neighbor and/or his felonious friends were apparently stalking our daughters and hiding in our yard area to do something evil. My daughter's little Sheltie found him hiding behind the pony haystack and raised a ruckus, and she dashed back inside before any harm could happen. The creep ran off to his/their car and sped off after being discovered. I spent the rest of that winter getting up at 5am every morning and clearing the yard in the dark with a rifle and a light.
gidaeon
Member
locking doors (and windows too which might we left open or unlocked!) may not stop someone from entry - but it slows them down, causes more noise to be made alerting you and giving you more time.
TallPine
Member
locking doors (and windows too which might we left open or unlocked!) may not stop someone from entry - but it slows them down, causes more noise to be made alerting you and giving you more time to grab your gun and shoot the bastard
lloydkristmas
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hankdatank1362
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