Looking for budget precision rifle, savage 110 elite precision?

[small town life]

Honestly I don't care what anybody uses, I just don't like non-substantiated BS.

I load for a friend's 6.5C and I load for my .260Rem (+ 30 other calibers). With 140s and a 24" barrel the 6.5C is a 2750 or so MV (which is actually being generous).

Spaulding's actually correct, he ran his numbers with both cartridges using their highest BC bullets.

As for MVs:

Nosler Lists 2730 as max in 6.5C with a 142 : https://www.nosler.com/65-creedmoor
Nosler also lists 3020 for a .270 with a 140: https://www.nosler.com/270-winchester

Using Strelok Pro and the same environmental conditions with a 10mph 90 degree wind:

For the 6.5C I used a AB Long Range with BC of .625

500 yds 6.5C 39.5" of drop and 20" of windage at 500 1346 lbs of energy
700 yds the 6.5C has 105.5" Drop, 28.0" of windage and 1056 energy

The .270 Win I just used a plain old 140 gran AB with a BC of 0.496

500 yds 34.2" Drop 15.6 Windage 1412 energy
700 yds 93.6" Drop 32.4" drift 1042 energy

IF I was worried about LR with the .270, why not go with the 150AB LR bullet and a BC of .591 and a MV of 2900?

500 drop 35.0 drift 13.4" 1571 energy
700 drop 93.8 drift 27.4" 1221 Energy

Of course there could be some variations, fast barrels etc., but a freaking 6.5C is not catching a .270W anywhere close to 200 yds no matter how many time jmr40 posts it.

I have some 150ablr's in 27cal and Berger 150's, but the Berger's are much less in bc. Using the same type bullet from the same company makes it more even for comparisons.

 

[horsey300]

Now you're talking velocity needed for reliable expansion. I didn't mention hunting.

No, but the op did, and for LR shooting, I've never needed energy for anything other than a dust cloud (why I didn't bring any .22s into this one I hate watching for .22 impacts lol) thus, my statement about energy numbers leaned more towards his (op) stated use of hunting as a secondary purpose, plenty of people argue energy for hunting, few references towards it outside of power factor for handguns in the target realm, so for the blended purpose threads (like this one) I didn't for a second think energy would by calculated in a meaningful way for LR targets, and ASSuMEd that the reference to energy must have been towards the secondary topic. The latter posted stats on wind drift are way more useful than an energy number.

Honestly I don't care what anybody uses, I just don't like non-substantiated BS.

I load for a friend's 6.5C and I load for my .260Rem (+ 30 other calibers). With 140s and a 24" barrel the 6.5C is a 2750 or so MV (which is actually being generous).

Spaulding's actually correct, he ran his numbers with both cartridges using their highest BC bullets.

As for MVs:

Nosler Lists 2730 as max in 6.5C with a 142 : https://www.nosler.com/65-creedmoor
Nosler also lists 3020 for a .270 with a 140: https://www.nosler.com/270-winchester

Using Strelok Pro and the same environmental conditions with a 10mph 90 degree wind:

For the 6.5C I used a AB Long Range with BC of .625

500 yds 6.5C 39.5" of drop and 20" of windage at 500 1346 lbs of energy
700 yds the 6.5C has 105.5" Drop, 28.0" of windage and 1056 energy

The .270 Win I just used a plain old 140 gran AB with a BC of 0.496

500 yds 34.2" Drop 15.6 Windage 1412 energy
700 yds 93.6" Drop 32.4" drift 1042 energy

IF I was worried about LR with the .270, why not go with the 150AB LR bullet and a BC of .591 and a MV of 2900?

500 drop 35.0 drift 13.4" 1571 energy
700 drop 93.8 drift 27.4" 1221 Energy

Of course there could be some variations, fast barrels etc., but a freaking 6.5C is not catching a .270W anywhere close to 200 yds no matter how many time jmr40 posts it.

I don't disagree with your premise, but if we're gonna run the 150 ablr in the .270, don't discount the federal 145(iirc?) tlr "edge" that has since been discontinued and on the same note, include bergers 156 for the creed, and MAYBE do a custom fast twist .270 and sew if there's an EOL for the .270......since we're having fun numbers don't exclude the other cool kids from the party

 

[WisBorn]

@Big-bore-bob I don't think you can go wrong with the 300WM. The 300 PRC would be a good choice also.
I had a Savage model 12 BVSS in 300wsm. I couldn't personally shoot as well as the rifle could. I averaged 1/2 MOA with it.
Savage rifles aren't budget rifles they are just great values

 

[Chuck R.]

No, but the op did, and for LR shooting, I've never needed energy for anything other than a dust cloud (why I didn't bring any .22s into this one I hate watching for .22 impacts lol) thus, my statement about energy numbers leaned more towards his (op) stated use of hunting as a secondary purpose, plenty of people argue energy for hunting, few references towards it outside of power factor for handguns in the target realm, so for the blended purpose threads (like this one) I didn't for a second think energy would by calculated in a meaningful way for LR targets, and ASSuMEd that the reference to energy must have been towards the secondary topic. The latter posted stats on wind drift are way more useful than an energy number.


I don't disagree with your premise, but if we're gonna run the 150 ablr in the .270, don't discount the federal 145(iirc?) tlr "edge" that has since been discontinued and on the same note, include bergers 156 for the creed, and MAYBE do a custom fast twist .270 and sew if there's an EOL for the .270......since we're having fun numbers don't exclude the other cool kids from the party

Its not a premise, just exterior ballistics. Within the distances most big game is shot, BC really doesn't play that big a role.

You're right, but it still won't matter until the 6.5C somehow magically grows more case capacity... a few numbers delta in BC takes some distance to overcome a few hundred ft per second in velocity.

Browning already makes a fast twist barreled. 270 add to that a 170 grn bullet and the 6.5C will never catch up.

Like I said, there's no replacement for displacement.

 

[horsey300]

Its not a premise, just exterior ballistics. Within the distances most big game is shot, BC really doesn't play that big a role.

You're right, but it still won't matter until the 6.5C somehow magically grows more case capacity... a few numbers delta in BC takes some distance to overcome a few hundred ft per second in velocity.

Browning already makes a fast twist barreled. 270 add to that a 170 grn bullet and the 6.5C will never catch up.

Like I said, there's no replacement for displacement.

Not in total disagreement here either, going to point out that the longest shots we've taken on game (deer/antelope) are 500ish and truthfully we can't discern enough difference between a 130gr .270 wsm and a 95 gr .243 to matter practically speaking.... so for displacement, at comfortable distances, the size of game is gonna have to increase considerably to notice the difference between the 6.5 and well....really anything bottlenecked. I would say, realistically speaking, the .280/ai is where we truthfully can enter a different ballpark, without going custom. I can't think of anything (within similar parameters) that I'd point my buddy's .270 at and say "nope" with his dad's 6.5 creed.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I'm just trying to figure out why the 270 would come up in the discussion. It's a good hunting round, and may be accurate, but it has lost popularity.

 

[LoonWulf]

I'm just trying to figure out why the 270 would come up in the discussion. It's a good hunting round, and may be accurate, but it has lost popularity.

IMO its because its one of the original high-velocity flat shooting cartridges. its also one everyone is familiar with. It DOES make a good comparison cartridge, as its kinda a gold standard for 06 length action hunting cartridges. Given the increase in twist rate the .277s (along with many other calibers) are now as capable of tossing high bc bullets, which gives it some extra legs when its high velocity runs out.

If were steering away from the .308 and 300WM, then theres a whole world of cartridges with have little advantages and disadvantages, or are just slightly different.
Personally, NEITHER would be my choice. I get harassed by my shooting buddies, because Im "anti" .30.....truth is I'm not, but I don't see an advantage to them in my personal use. Much like @horsey300, im very happy with less bullet weight for anything I would do, and if I want the extra bullet weight I want more powder to push it....... I also happen to be a 7mm fan, so most of my rifles similar to what the OP is looking at are in 7.
Nothing hugely advantageous either way.
.

 

[horsey300]

I'm just trying to figure out why the 270 would come up in the discussion. It's a good hunting round, and may be accurate, but it has lost popularity.

Because some folks think it's the bees knees, so the other folks say the 6.5 creed can match it to trigger the first group but the first group are inadmitadley insecure, and this debate will continue till the end of time, "O'Conner V. Manbun" shall never die. Honestly if I could go back I'm time to be in Sidney cabelas the day my buddy grabbed his .270 I would have persuaded him to something else, I only have two .270 friends (my .270wsm was a compromise, I wanted a benelli r1 in something sub .30 caliber so I justify it as not you average. 270) and neither of them know much except that it's an elk killer (dominantly pronghorn/deer hunters) and has wide popularity, the last successful hunt with primary friend was at 30ish yds with a 134 bar and when showing him the carcass next to the wife's 40ish yd .243 prohunter deer, he blushed, his best day was when I introduced him to lite 120 sst factory loads. That all being said..... if I were the OP, I'd run my target rig HEAVY(12+lbs) with 6.5c target loads, then hunt with a lighter sporter class(10>lbs) 6.5c with similar scopes (6-20ish v 4-16ish) same manufacturer and reticle, and call it a day

 

[horsey300]

IMO its because its one of the original high-velocity flat shooting cartridges. its also one everyone is familiar with. It DOES make a good comparison cartridge, as its kinda a gold standard for 06 length action hunting cartridges. Given the increase in twist rate the .277s (along with many other calibers) are now as capable of tossing high bc bullets, which gives it some extra legs when its high velocity runs out.

If were steering away from the .308 and 300WM, then theres a whole world of cartridges with have little advantages and disadvantages, or are just slightly different.
Personally, NEITHER would be my choice. I get harassed by my shooting buddies, because Im "anti" .30.....truth is I'm not, but I don't see an advantage to them in my personal use. Much like @horsey300, im very happy with less bullet weight for anything I would do, and if I want the extra bullet weight I want more powder to push it....... I also happen to be a 7mm fan, so most of my rifles similar to what the OP is looking at are in 7.
Nothing hugely advantageous either way.
.

Anti .30 covert, grew up shooting. 30-30, .300 savage, grabbed a .300 win, got my dad a .300rum, now? Efficiency is king and if I can't do it with a .28something, it's gonna start with .37somethimg. Handguns? Hunting/distances? .327, .357, .41, .454, .460 yea I own others but they don't do that job as efficiently as i want, and honestly? .429 ranks with a .30 rifle. This ain't 1983, let's celebrate that shall we? The true tragedy is rifle makers not getting on board. Twist the barrels faster! Give us enough leade for slippery bullets, hormady/federal (creed/prc, valk) deliver half promises; I want factory brass, 50 ish gr of powder a true short action cartridge throwing 156gr b.c.'s (in a 6.5) for 3000ish and even better if I can get sub-1 moa in a semi-auto. Then I'd only ask for a .375 ruger that packs like an ar15, shoots like .408 Tejas, and kicks like a .450 bm.....I don't ask for much really...just insane efficiency and I can't find a .30 that wins in any category

 

[Chuck R.]

I'm just trying to figure out why the 270 would come up in the discussion. It's a good hunting round, and may be accurate, but it has lost popularity.

I agree, I only posted to refute once again some misinformation that one poster in particular seems to spout periodically.

Every cartridge, caliber, twist rate etc. have their + and -, in most cases the differences are moot at practical hunting distances. IF you like X or Y, by all means have fun with it. There's lots of logical reasons why someone prefers one over the other.

I just don't think there's a need or place for misleading information, especially since he and I have had this tit for tat in past. Now I can back up my posts with actual data, but can he?

To get back on topic, IF it were me, I'd skip the 6.5C and either go with a 6mmC or a 6.5PRC. We're going to practice this morning, me with my 6mm SLR and my friend with his 6.5C. The differences in drop and wind drift between the two are noticeable. He shoots 143s at 2720 and I'm using 105 hybrids at 3170. I can completely miss a wind call and usually stay on a plate.

Now IF a 6mm barrel would just last longer..

 

[rdnktrkr]

Recently I went shooting with some friends, I took some 30-06s, a 30-30, 270w, 6.5cm and 243w, everyone agreed the 6.5cm was a sweet shooting rifle (MDT chassis and 3 port brake), the runner up was a friends 7mm08, but the 243w is a lightweight rig. If I was looking for a "TARGET" rifle where shooting 100rnds or more a day I don't think I would be looking at anything 270 or above due to recoil and cost per round. My 6.5cm has a very light recoil and maybe with a brake and chassis some of the bigger cartridges could be tamed. The only 30-06 I would want to shoot 100rnds was the Garand, but it shoots lower psi rnds so can't hold up to the others at longer distances.

 

[snowman357]

T3x TACT A1 comes in 308 but I would get it in 260 if you reload. I ' think it comes in 300 mag though. No such things as niche caliber if you reload and brass is available.

https://choose.tikka.fi/usa/code/TF1T2917A6349G4MB

 

[WisBorn]

@Big-bore-bob
I went to the Savage website to look at the 110 Elite Percision. Have you also considered the 110 Percision?

I agree with your 308win or 300WM choices.
With the opportunity to reach out 1400 yards the 300WM has a clear advantage. If you plan on shooting out to 500 or less the majority of the time save barrel life with the 308.

Hunting rifle? If you plan on using it frequently for hunting the 110 Percision 300 weights 11.25 #s @ $1649
The 110 Elite Percision 300 weights 14.95 #s @ $2199
At over 3#s less and $550 I would go with the 110 Percision and spend the $500 on better glass.

Members have mentioned recoil. A 12-15# ported rifle set up for percision shooting has little recoil. If you can shoot a 7-8# hunting rifle in 6.5 creedmoor, You can shoot a 300mag target rifle that is ported!!!

 

[Lo-Profile]

Savage 110
Howa 1500
Ruger American

All make a good precision baseline

 

[LoonWulf]

Just got home from shooting at 1800 and change. 6.5CM (1 20moa rail, 1 flat), 7prc (flat), 28Nosler (20moa rail). The only rifle that got on our +/-2moa target without using 10+ minutes if hold over was the 28.
Drops for the CMs were in the 70moa range (holding out of reticle), the 7prc was 53moa, the 28nosler was 13mil.

Out to 1000yds I feel like were wasting powder with the 28, at 1200-1500 it becomes more reliable, at 1600-1800 it REALLY starts to stand out.
Hopefully well get the 300PRC out there soon, im waiting for a scope to come back for it.