Looters in New Orleans

[LawDog]

If Hurricane Katrina had been a surprise, I could forgive looting for food, water and such.

It wasn't.

There were warnings damn near a day and more before the storm hit. People were told - repeatedly - get the hell out, because New Orleans was about to become a bay of Lake Ponchartrain. CNN, FoxNews, ham radio, FM radio, AM radio -- heck aliens on Antares Five didn't have a clue where Earth is located, but they knew that New Orleans was about to be at the bottom of a 20-foot-deep toxic pool.

My baby nephew probably thinks that "N'Awlins" is Cajun word that means "Atlantis", as often as that metaphor was on cable news stations.

No. They made a conscious choice to remain, believing that the results of the hurricane were going to be worse than what actually happened.

And they made a conscious choice to be unprepared. They made a conscious choice not to stock up on necessities.

They were stupid, and stupidity hurts. Time to take their lumps.

They aren't owed a damned thing.

LawDog

 

[GRB]

Well besides food and water...

there could be one more thing:

Another man rolled a mechanized pallet, stacked six feet high with cases of vodka and whiskey. Perched atop the stack was a bewildered toddler.

Medicial supplies. I am sure that toddler must have been teething, of course!

 

[Stauble]

very well put LawDog.
all these peopel out that say society owes them this and the "white man" keep then down pisses the hell outa me.
they need to take respnsiblitly for thier own stupidity and laziness

 

[Byron Quick]

I've taken up a position in a position to defend my store against looters and arsonists during a riot.

Believe me, folks. Looting my store is NOT the path for survival for you and yours when times get desperate. You're not going to do your needy family much good in the way of survival as you decompose. Except that you won't be using up scarce resources.

Everyone who maintains the "you'll do what it takes to survive when the SHTF" and "salvage" had best stock up on what you need rather than figuring "you'll do what you need to do to survive" and "salvage" when it involves what I possess that I need to survive.

Had a rioter turn around and yell at me as the crowd around him looted a clothing store,"Yeah, Quick! We're going to get your place tonight!" I yelled back across the street,"If so much as a window is cracked on my store tonight then they will rioting over your dead butt tomorrow night."

He came out in the middle of the street to get closer to hear better and asked for clarification of my statement. I told him that I meant exactly what I said. If any damage, of any degree, happened to my business that night then I was going to hold him personally responsible and kill him for it. I then went on to tell him that I was going out of town that night so feel free to do whatever. I was told later that he spent the rest of the day and night running all over town pleading with people to leave my business untouched. It was one of the few in the downtown business district that sustained no damage.

The National Guard and police should be shooting them on sight by the Governor's order.

 

[Crosshair]

There are reports of the police joining in on the looting.

Cops looting in NO. (25th Story Down)

 

[GRB]

Stupidity may hurt but if someone is out of food and water and has no way out of town think about it. I guess it would have been better to go where the city or state put people, in the whatever dome. Yet for those who were stupid enough to stay, they would have to be even stupider than you suppose to not take necessary provisions if it was in order to live (such as food). I don't think they are owed anything either but, as for myself, I would be damed to hell if I listened to someone who told me no you cannot have it while my family went hungry. So I can understand how it happens. I don't condone it, I understand maybe they learned something from their stupidity and are now trying to make up for it. That of course goes for the small minority who really need what they take for emergency needs as opposed to the thugs who take whatever they can get.

Funny how this has become a racial thing in the eyes of people in this thread, I have it on very good authority that whites are looting too. You have not seen them on the tube because they have been doing it in fewer numbers but they are doing it.

 

[R.H. Lee]

New Orleans police hold shotguns as they try to keep people away from a drug store in a flooded are of downtown New Orleans, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Numerous other nearby store were previously looted.

 

[LawDog]

Yet for those who were stupid enough to stay, they would have to be even stupider than you suppose to not take necessary provisions if it was in order to live (such as food). I don't think they are owed anything either but, as for myself, I would be damed to hell if I listened to someone who told me no you cannot have it while my family went hungry.

You get thirty hours advance warning on the hurricane, and you don't A)leave; and/or B)Stock up, then no you don't get to take squat from my store.

Come up and ask like a civilized human being -- or if I'm not there, leave a note -- and you can more than likely have what your family needs.

Kick in the window, or take things not necessary for survival, and the National Guard has my blessing to blow your brains out and hang your lifeless body from a streetlamp as a warning, if I don't do it first.

LawDog

 

[Byron Quick]

I have no problem with people grabing the food and water, but anything else, I do not agree with.

They'd best hope and pray that it's not my food and water nor that of any business owner with whom I have a mutual protection agreement..

 

[GRB]

Byron Quick,

You have already demonstrated that you are ready to commit what may well be premeditated murder, or at the least manslaughter, of an individual whether or not he was invloved in any theft from your store. Does that somehow make you better than the looters? I cannot condone looting as I said earlier. I can understand how someone may have driven to it to survive. Beyond that I see no need to loot. Looters should be rounded up and prosecuted or possibly even shot by authorities under marshal law and under the limits of the law; however you doing what you said you would do is not appropriate at all. In my eyes you are worse than the most heinous looter by far.

Glenn B

 

[Sindawe]

heck aliens on Antares Five didn't have a clue where Earth is located, but they knew that New Orleans was about to be at the bottom of a 20-foot-deep toxic pool.

I wish those guys on Anteres Five would come by and sell us one of the their FTLs, its getting a might crowded on this planet.

From the link about a cop joining in on the looting:

Officers claimed there was nothing they could do to contain the anarchy, saying their radio communications have broken down and they had no direction from commanders.

“We don’t have enough cops to stop it,” an officer said. “A mass riot would break out if you tried.”

Personal initiative? Realization that looting survival supplies is not the same as looting electronics and useless pretty rocks. "Shoot looters on sight" would be my suggestion.

Sandra Smith of Baton Rouge walked through the parking lot with a 12-pack of Bud Light under each arm.

This I can see, since the beer has been pasturized and sealed, so is safe to drink. Unlike the water supply. Heck, even the distilled EtOH (Whisky and Vodka) can be used to help clean up biological contamination of water if mixed in the right proportions IIRC.

 

[Joejojoba111]

I think a lot of people don't understand what is about to happen. Maybe I'm way off, but it seems like this is a survival situation. Now morals aside, you have a limited amount of juice. And if you burn all your calories looting jeans and televisions, you're going to die. All the smart people will be thinking about how they need potable water, and a dry place to sleep.

IMO that water is going to smell like a giant sewer in a matter of a few dozen hours, and anyone who doesn't start rationing what clean water they have is as good as dead, and dieing by crapping myself to death is not how I want to go.

I truly hope emergency services can inform and supply people enough.

 

[JamisJockey]

Well, I should have added "Loot at your own risk" to my statement. While I do believe that people should do what is necessary to survive, but there are always consequences to ones actions. If being unprepared forces one to loot for the necesseties, you should pay the price to society. And, if someone defends what is thiers....well they paid the price for unprepardedness.
So I guess what I mean is its understandable when you're desperate and unprepared. Of course, I understand and wholeheartedly agree with the stance of shooting looters, and would do the same if I were defending my home or store. Part of why I bought an SKS, when I didn't need one.

 

[Atticus]

I agree that the looting is terrible, but I'm not suprised in the least. The City and State had time to prepare as well. Their evacuation plan (if you can call it that, was pathetic), their mobilization of police and NG is pathetic. They've known that this could happen at any time during the season.
There's no excuse for stealing appliances, jewelery and such, but how exactly does a person prepare for something like this when whatever they've stashed at home is under water (or blown away)- they can't get out of town because the evacuation is poorly planned and the highways are parking lots (assuming they even own a car)- the airports are closed- the buses aren't running-etc. How do you feed, protect, and move yourself, the family (perhaps a couple 85 year old grannys and a baby or two) under those conditions, especially if your not very well off and have no lump sum of cash to get your whole family out? It's 90 degrees there now; there's no lights at night, theres no water, no sewer, no nuthin. Bad stuff.

 

[BenW]

Sandra Smith of Baton Rouge walked through the parking lot with a 12-pack of Bud Light under each arm.

This I can see, since the beer has been pasturized and sealed, so is safe to drink. Unlike the water supply. Heck, even the distilled EtOH (Whisky and Vodka) can be used to help clean up biological contamination of water if mixed in the right proportions IIRC.

Somehow I don't think good old Sandra was taking the beer out of the knowledge that it was pasturized and sealed. Twinkies are supposed to last a century or so, but I also don't think their preservative qualities mattered to the people I saw on TV with shopping carts full of them, cookies, and other snacks (not to mention the home electronics, etc., etc.) as they laughed and danced their way down the road.

In fact the majority of looters I saw on the news had happy looks on their faces -- a far cry from desperate need in my humble opinion.

 

[bogie]

Within a few days, when that looted food and drink runs out, we're gonna see some major nastiness.

 

[kart racer]

I work for an insurance company and a few years ago a hurricane tore up the NC coast pretty good,the people there were helping one another, although all of their belongings were on main street being bull dozed away.These people lost their homes cars-everything.I think it shows the caliber of people you are dealing with.Personally ,I think if you don't take your vehicles and leave, then there should be no coverage.It's not like the hurricane sneaks up on ya,you have plenty of warning.The very poor,elderly..etc..that can't leave is one thing,but the dreggs of society are just that..but maybe that's the difference between here and there-a community that tries to take care of their own verse one that just wants to take.The stores,individuals,etc.. were giving anything they had to their neighbor.Sorry for the rant,but I know I'll be going there to deal with these people and the aftermath.

 

[Stauble]

ted nugent used to have a show. i only saw it once but the sign he had on his fence said
"trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again"
those signs should be put up in all the shops and enforsed. we'll see how many people suddenly dont need those twinkees

 

[GoRon]

Just heard martial law was declared in New Orleans. Will the looters even care about that?

Nema and JoJo, start a thread at THR's sister site on climate change ArmedPoliteSociety

 

[Byron Quick]

Glenn Bartley,

The man to whom I was referring in my previous post was in about the third row of a pack of looters in the process of kicking out the plate glass window of Dolin's Department Store when he turned, saw me and threatened my business with looting that night.

As far as I'm concerned I was merciful to a looter in the act of looting. YMMV. I wish Mr. Dolin had shot the entire group. If he had opened fire; then I darn sure would have supported him. At the time. With armed support.

 

[The_Shootist]

Looters vs Salvagers

Anybody walking off with a TV (that likely doesn't work anymore anyway) is an idiot who will probably starve to death in the long run and isn't worth spending the ammo on I mean, does he think he will take it home and plug it in and watch MTV or something? Especially with the flood waters rising .

I'd be carrying my 686+ and SP 101 both stuffed with Silvertips (sorry - no time to get dainty - I feel revolvers are less likely to jam) and would use them for personal protection / anti-car jacking material. All the rest of my possesions are covered by insurance - it just isn't worth the paperwork to shoot some guy running out of my slightly trashed apt by category 4/5 hurricane with my TV when I'm in good hands with Allstate.

I'd differentiate between the guys making off with durables and those grabbing food.

Food is going to spoil soon anyway - as cynical as it sounds, might as well scrounge it and get arrested on a full stomach than starve with a clear conscience.

 

[ezypikns]

It's Simple

If people are in need of food or drink, give them what they need. Otherwise shoot the bastards where they stand.

 

[cgjunk2]

Some of the comments made here seem a bit oversimplified, so I think it is worth repeating some thoughts that have been mentioned here...(this is directed at no one in particular). My apoligies in advance for the long rant...

The people that are left in the ravaged areas are most likely the people who had little or no means to get out. You can say all you want that you had a day's warning, but that doesn't do you any good if you got no way to get out, or if you decide that getting out will be more dangerous. All the warning does is give you another day to contemplate your fate. Also a day's warning is nothing when you've got a whole city to evacuate, absolutely nothing. More like a cruel joke.

For example, How many of you would rather risk dying in a car (if you had a car) in an expressway that becomes a parking lot? Or would you rather risk dying in your home? Which is better? Where would your kids and wife fare best? What if you didn't want to leave your elderly family members behind? If you do leave, where would you go if you had no money? What if you had money, but all motels were booked? It is a tough decision, and I don't claim a correct answer. All the machismo in the world that is going around in this thread will do squat for ya. The situation is horrible right now, and people need to open their eyes as to how complicated the situation is.

Second point to be repeated...

That wonderfully sealed survival kit (one in the car, one in the home, etc) is a wonderful idea that we should all have on hand, but unfortunately will not do much good after it floats away or is 15 feet below underwater. Or after your ass if plucked off a roof and you are not allowed to take all 50 pounds of it with you. Where do you think all these people are going when they get plucked off? To dry land, that's it. Fend for yourself after that my friend (for the forseable future, at this point in time).

Third...
Whoever would be defending PROPERTY in a LIFE THREATENING situation is frankly pretty high up on Darwin's "NEXT" list. Wouldn't one have better things to do (ie survive) when the gates of hell are opening, rather than protecting some potato chips, or worthless TV's, or worthless jewelery, etc? That material stuff is absolutely worthless at a time like this. I doubt anyone is going to trade a thief his diamond for daily bread, so let the idiots have at it. Those thieves are going to die hungry with their worthless diamonds anyway, they are not worth worrying about when one should be completely in survival mode. (Should have grabbed chips instead).

This looting that is going on in New Orleans isn't quite comparable to the looting seen during riots. I would be willing to bet most of this is for survival (yeah yeah, the TV thingies just shoes the TVs and jewelery...) The folks that are stealing TVs and such are just unfortanately not prioritizing things correctly (I'm being very kind and generous here ).

The only way I could justify having to threaten someone with deadly force in this extreme survival situation is if they are trying to steal the food that is for my family and me. If an aggressor is directly compromising your ability to survive, then all bets are off for the poor fella. This can be viewed as a self defence sitiuation. Of course, if the fella began begging for food instead, that would change the moral situation completely. Frankly, my ammo would best be saved for making alligator sushi, of for preparing fresh seal for lunch (there was a live seal that washed up somewhere, looked tasty ).

The fact is that this place is currently without law as we are used to. Things will be only as good as the people make it. In this situation, morality, compassion, basic social mores and the need to survive will be the real law. I hope and pray that the people of this region get through this.

I personally don't think we will know the scope of the disaster for weeks, there simply isn't any communication down there at this time. It looks like it is really bad, on the highest order. On a less immediately important note, I bet that this disaster can push the rest of the country into an economic recession because of the oil situation. Old W is going to have to think quick on his feet.

 

[Lucky]

Sorry, I sound like a tool. But I was brought up to be thrifty, it's my nature to think like this.

I even spoke to my mom, she agrees. Here's the deal - if the sun comes out and drys everything up tomorrow, every store is going to have to take all their merchandise to the dump, and throw it away. They can't give it away, or they won't get insurance money. If they could give it away, they'd be breaking the law beacuase their product would be unsanitary and harmful. IF they get insurance.

If they don't get insurance, (act of God), the same rules apply. The merchandise is just a mess they have to clean up. They have to pay someone to take it all to the dump.

If the company is receiving no insurance money, then people hauling away their merchandise is saving the store the money they would have to spend to take it to the dump.

And if the store was not going to receive any insurance money, because it was an act of god, now they suddenly do receive insurance money because the flood didn't destroy their premises, it was people. And the flood didn't destroy their product, it was stolen.

It seems like the looters win, and the stores win. The stores have a long tenuous ordeal ahead, to be sure. And the looters have a grueling and physically challenging 3 months ahead, too.

But they're better off this way!

(P.S. IMO, but I'm no expert, every structure is garbage now. Every house will have to go, everything but brick walls will have to be demolished.)

 

[gunner03]

Stealing tv's, instead of helping others in worse shape than themselves....BOOM!!!!Food is more understandable. I can't speak for everyone,but I was raised to help when I can.