Looters in New Orleans
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Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Borachon,
Personally, I've got a couple of weeks of food and other emergency supplies.
But say they're lost? You might go robbing other people who are caught in the disaster with you. I won't. I will offer to work for them. If I find some group that has already had a run in with folks who think that their survival trumps others' rights and still has some supplies left...I'll offer to guard for food and water.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier posts about the looters in the riot. The riot started that morning at the RACO convenience store on Liberty Street. The authorities had advance warning of unrest. There were about 50 officers across the street in riot gear. They watches as young thugs beat elderly customers at the RACO. Didn't even yell stop. As the crowd of rioters moved about three blocks to the main business district; the riot police followed. They watched as the looting started. They did nothing to prevent the looting and did nothing to arrest the looters. I personally watched the rioters assault bystanders, destroy about twenty vehicles, and loot about six businesses while the riot police stood by and watched also.
Personally, I've got a couple of weeks of food and other emergency supplies.
But say they're lost? You might go robbing other people who are caught in the disaster with you. I won't. I will offer to work for them. If I find some group that has already had a run in with folks who think that their survival trumps others' rights and still has some supplies left...I'll offer to guard for food and water.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier posts about the looters in the riot. The riot started that morning at the RACO convenience store on Liberty Street. The authorities had advance warning of unrest. There were about 50 officers across the street in riot gear. They watches as young thugs beat elderly customers at the RACO. Didn't even yell stop. As the crowd of rioters moved about three blocks to the main business district; the riot police followed. They watched as the looting started. They did nothing to prevent the looting and did nothing to arrest the looters. I personally watched the rioters assault bystanders, destroy about twenty vehicles, and loot about six businesses while the riot police stood by and watched also.
Borachon
Member
Work with what? EVERYTHING is destroyed. No water. No electricity. No help. The roads are blocked. There is no gas.
I "robbed" some abandoned car earlier this morning. We needed gas, and we siphoned it. I don't think anyone will mind though. This car's engine was crushed by a tree.
You are thinking like you can go to Wal Mart and buy some stuff to help out. Or you think that your stash of goods will survive so that you can hand them out to people while your wife or sons cover you from the second floor. Know how I know that? Cause that's what *I* use to think.
EVERYTHING IS GONE. Rap your mind around that.
kihnspiracy
Member
It's not about gettin much needed food, water, diapers etc. IT IS STEALING. Period. Everytime the news comes on here with looting footage, they are showing people stealing tv's, dvd players, jewelery, appliances, etc. Not one of the looters shown was carrying food or water. I am all for providing for your loved ones in time of crisis. But this is stealing pure and simple. 
As far as I am concerned, shoot the looters.
As far as I am concerned, shoot the looters.
Borachon
Member
Call it whatever you want.
Theft, robbering, stealing...whatever.
You can't get it anywhere else. They aren't selling food. They aren't selling gas. They are aren't selling air conditioning. There is no fresh water. There are snakes everywhere.
Like I said before, sit back on your couch and moralize all you want. Maybe when it happens to you you'll undestand.
Theft, robbering, stealing...whatever.
You can't get it anywhere else. They aren't selling food. They aren't selling gas. They are aren't selling air conditioning. There is no fresh water. There are snakes everywhere.
Like I said before, sit back on your couch and moralize all you want. Maybe when it happens to you you'll undestand.
Borachon
Member
I'd love to chat with you unsympathetic people all day long. But I gotta go back down to south Mississippi with a load of ice this afternoon and I wanna catch some sleep.
Like I said, considering the way you guys have been talking...no offense, but I hope it happens to you.
Like I said, considering the way you guys have been talking...no offense, but I hope it happens to you.
Borachon
Member
We DID put gas in ALL our cars. I'm buying a bunch of it now that I'm here in New Albany.
After two trips back and forth between the Gulf Coast and New Albany, Mississippi, we have had problems getting more. Especially when we are down there. You have to detour around a LOT of damage in order to get to some places and it uses a lot of gas. In fact, last night we needed gas for an outboard motor to put a boat on the Wolf River in order to get to a buddy's place down on the coast. He called me on Sat phone and told me that he was challenged by SOMEONE last night in the dark and shots were fired at his boat. National Guardsmen, Deputies...who knows? But they are taking that whole curfew thing pretty serious right now.
I've agreed to transport some ice down there and that should get me thru the check points and then I'll do a side visit to a rendezvous point that my buddy and I worked out and we'll bring his mom and dad back. If they are still alive.
I give the moderator of this forum complete and total permission to post information about my URL location and the city and state of origin of my message. He can confirm that I am in Mississippi.
Oh, by the way, to hell with you for not believing me in the first place.
Looks like Tupelo, actually.
The High Road??
Seems to me that some of you guys are on the wrong site, and should go to "The Low Road". It is amazing to see the absoluters that have no real idea of what circumstances are, to sit and ignore the simple fact that whatever the reasons, these folks don't deserve to die by thirst or starvation. Also to think that there are absolutely no legitimate reasons for these people to be trapped is not very bright. Some seem to have a slightly abnormal desire to see people shot for trying to survive, even if they were stupid. Not criminal, but maybe stupid. Whatever, to advocate that they simply sit by and die because of their circumstance is not what any civilized person would advocate. There may be a number of scum as there always are, but many are simply unfortunate. Including a large number of children. Even if I got my children into an unfortunate circumstance because of my own stupidity, I would still do whatever is necessary and in my power to help them survive.
Seems to me that some of you guys are on the wrong site, and should go to "The Low Road". It is amazing to see the absoluters that have no real idea of what circumstances are, to sit and ignore the simple fact that whatever the reasons, these folks don't deserve to die by thirst or starvation. Also to think that there are absolutely no legitimate reasons for these people to be trapped is not very bright. Some seem to have a slightly abnormal desire to see people shot for trying to survive, even if they were stupid. Not criminal, but maybe stupid. Whatever, to advocate that they simply sit by and die because of their circumstance is not what any civilized person would advocate. There may be a number of scum as there always are, but many are simply unfortunate. Including a large number of children. Even if I got my children into an unfortunate circumstance because of my own stupidity, I would still do whatever is necessary and in my power to help them survive.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
The Red Cross is looking for volunteers. In South Carolina there is training on 9/3 followed, I assume, by deployment shortly after. If you have 2 or 3 weeks to give, I am sure lots of people would appreciate it.
At the moment I am working on clearing my schedule so I can go.
At the moment I am working on clearing my schedule so I can go.
Cosmoline
Member
Borachon, they CAN'T. They've lived too many years in comfort. My support goes out to you and other folks trying to survive this. Do what you have to do. You have seen the elephant--these back row critics haven't.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
You siphoned gas out of a wrecked vehicle? I've no problem with that. On the other hand, siponing gas out of another disaster victim's running vehicle...yes, I sincerely hopes he shoots you dead.
I've already given to the Red Cross for this. I'm not unsympathetic to people's plights. Do I have sympathy for people who will put their survival ahead of your survival by stealing from you? No, I don't. In fact, I hope you kill the savages.
I've already given to the Red Cross for this. I'm not unsympathetic to people's plights. Do I have sympathy for people who will put their survival ahead of your survival by stealing from you? No, I don't. In fact, I hope you kill the savages.
§20. Justifiable homicide
A homicide is justifiable:
(1) When committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.
(2) When committed for the purpose of preventing a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or of great bodily harm by one who reasonably believes that such an offense is about to be committed and that such action is necessary for its prevention. The circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.
(3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle. The homicide shall be justifiable even though the person does not retreat from the encounter.
(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle. The homicide shall be justifiable even though the person committing the homicide does not retreat from the encounter.
(b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply when the person committing the homicide is engaged, at the time of the homicide, in the acquisition of, the distribution of, or possession of, with intent to distribute a controlled dangerous substance in violation of the provisions of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law.
Added by Acts 1976, No. 655, §1. Amended by Acts 1977, No. 392, §1; Acts 1983, No. 234, §1; Acts 1993, No. 516, §1; Acts 1997, No. 1378, §1; Acts 2003, No. 660, §1.
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Sounds like a business owner who was inside his business is justified in using lethal force in Louisiana.
How sad for the take what you have to have crowd.
How sad for the take what you have to have crowd.
Goodness. The poor misunderstood looters have moved up to laying siege to the New Orleans Children's Hospital.
I'm sure that once they break in, they'll have nothing but hugs and kisses for the children. Furthermore, I'm sure that the poor misunderstood looters will be sure not to take anything that is needed by the hospitalized children.
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breaki..._08.html#075288
You know, I can't help but think that if some of those poor misunderstood looters had been shot down and/or hung from anything convienient during their initial forays into the looting business that this bunch of jackals wouldn't have worked up the nerve TO ASSAULT A CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL!
Sod 'em. Gun looters down on sight. Few of them wind up dead, and other places won't wind up under siege.
LawDog
I'm sure that once they break in, they'll have nothing but hugs and kisses for the children. Furthermore, I'm sure that the poor misunderstood looters will be sure not to take anything that is needed by the hospitalized children.
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breaki..._08.html#075288
You know, I can't help but think that if some of those poor misunderstood looters had been shot down and/or hung from anything convienient during their initial forays into the looting business that this bunch of jackals wouldn't have worked up the nerve TO ASSAULT A CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL!
Sod 'em. Gun looters down on sight. Few of them wind up dead, and other places won't wind up under siege.
LawDog
Cosmoline
Member
They've locked a hospital-how do you know these people aren't trying to get in for medical help?
I love how quickly the warm and dry are passing judgment and issuing death decrees on behalf of Wal-Mart. It's wonderful to see.
I love how quickly the warm and dry are passing judgment and issuing death decrees on behalf of Wal-Mart. It's wonderful to see.
There's a world of difference between foraging for supplies in stores that are obviously abandoned and breaking into jewelry stores, Best Buy etc to take advantage of the situation. How do rings and TVs translate into survival necessities.
Furthermore, there is a world of difference in making best use of abandoned items (as illustrated by taking gas out of a destroyed car) and forcibly taking them from others.
Furthermore, there is a world of difference in making best use of abandoned items (as illustrated by taking gas out of a destroyed car) and forcibly taking them from others.
Cosmoline
Member
Indeed there is--and my point is nobody here is in a position to judge exactly what side of the line people are on down there. The reports are sketchy and contradictory--often the product of hearsay and rumor.
I don't have much sympathy for mega-stores that are getting looted. If a business owner wants to protect his business, he'd better be down there with a rifle. It's not the duty of the state to protect your property from desperate people.
I don't have much sympathy for mega-stores that are getting looted. If a business owner wants to protect his business, he'd better be down there with a rifle. It's not the duty of the state to protect your property from desperate people.
Shaking head...
You know, what's really messed up is that while we bicker about who is looting what (and I'm NOT saying it's right... we all need food and water) the cops (who have also lost everything) are mostly busy looking for survivors who for whatever reason didn't leave.
The water keeps rising.
The bar that was OPEN on Bourbon street monday is now under 3 feet of water... the levees are still broken and while reports are conflicting on martial law being declared (all of NO? parts of NO)... they won't let anyone back in to defend anything. And the pumps aren't working.
The rational thing to do is get outta dodge.
That TV/VCR etc you just heisted isn't going to float, and pretty soon you aren't going to have a place to hide it.
Fires are burning out of control, 'armed gangs' are running inthe streets and even some of the cops can't seem to resist temptation. We are close to anarchy down there.
I will not understand the looters mugging for the camera as they hold ill gotten goods in the air like it's payday...
I can understand the uprepared making a run at the grocery stores...
I can't condone the grifters looking to score oxycotin or jewelry or guns... even if the place/merch. was insured.
But there is a limit to my sanity on this...
Case in point... on the news I saw a cop point a shotgun at a youth carrying a garbage bag full of looted sneakers, he complied with the officer and dumped the sneakers in the water... the cop then turned his attention to the next looter and the shoes floated away.
Would he have shot the kid for a pair of shoes he was going to leave to rot anyway?
Would any of us?
We aren't talking about taking a stand on a pile of rubble that used to be ours... keeping bad guys away from our bug-out bags and pressure sealed packs of toilet paper... we are talking about a massive disaster where the ones LEFT squabbling over the crumbs are risking disease, violence at the hands of each other and/or the law. The smart folk have already left.
Shooting someone trying to break into a sinking ship sounds like a morally bad idea and tactically unsound.
Bug out. Head for the hills while you still can.
Defending a hospital is an obvious exception... there are things of value there (lives) that need protecting.
You know, what's really messed up is that while we bicker about who is looting what (and I'm NOT saying it's right... we all need food and water) the cops (who have also lost everything) are mostly busy looking for survivors who for whatever reason didn't leave.
The water keeps rising.
The bar that was OPEN on Bourbon street monday is now under 3 feet of water... the levees are still broken and while reports are conflicting on martial law being declared (all of NO? parts of NO)... they won't let anyone back in to defend anything. And the pumps aren't working.
The rational thing to do is get outta dodge.
That TV/VCR etc you just heisted isn't going to float, and pretty soon you aren't going to have a place to hide it.
Fires are burning out of control, 'armed gangs' are running inthe streets and even some of the cops can't seem to resist temptation. We are close to anarchy down there.
I will not understand the looters mugging for the camera as they hold ill gotten goods in the air like it's payday...
I can understand the uprepared making a run at the grocery stores...
I can't condone the grifters looking to score oxycotin or jewelry or guns... even if the place/merch. was insured.
But there is a limit to my sanity on this...
Case in point... on the news I saw a cop point a shotgun at a youth carrying a garbage bag full of looted sneakers, he complied with the officer and dumped the sneakers in the water... the cop then turned his attention to the next looter and the shoes floated away.
Would he have shot the kid for a pair of shoes he was going to leave to rot anyway?
Would any of us?
We aren't talking about taking a stand on a pile of rubble that used to be ours... keeping bad guys away from our bug-out bags and pressure sealed packs of toilet paper... we are talking about a massive disaster where the ones LEFT squabbling over the crumbs are risking disease, violence at the hands of each other and/or the law. The smart folk have already left.
Shooting someone trying to break into a sinking ship sounds like a morally bad idea and tactically unsound.
Bug out. Head for the hills while you still can.
Defending a hospital is an obvious exception... there are things of value there (lives) that need protecting.
Carl N. Brown
Member
N.O. LA looters
The food and water I can forgive: it would be wasted if it
were not consumed immediately, and there is a justification
of necessity there.
There is no necessity for taking jewelry or electronics.
TVs? THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY IN N.O. LA AND WON'T BE
FOR WEEKS OR MONTHS. They should be stealing brains.
The food and water I can forgive: it would be wasted if it
were not consumed immediately, and there is a justification
of necessity there.
There is no necessity for taking jewelry or electronics.
TVs? THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY IN N.O. LA AND WON'T BE
FOR WEEKS OR MONTHS. They should be stealing brains.
Horsesense
Member
- Joined
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Pro 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;
Pro 6:31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.
Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Pro 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Pro 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.
Pro 6:31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.
Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Pro 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Pro 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.
Dr. Rob, you said it well. It's so easy for us to comment here. We are dry, and safe, and always correct. Right, everyone?
Some folks here have strongly held convictions and stick like glue to those positions. More power to you. But, this situation isn't hypothetical. This isn't a game. This is a disaster of major proportions that has only just begun.
Some here are concerned about law and order and how it can defend their view of right and wrong. Others argue for compassion and sympathy (empathy is tougher). Some care about their property because...well frankly, to some (note I wrote "some") that's how they define themselves. Others see only the humanity, but that's a tough thing for many people to see on a board dedicated to firearms. It's just so easy to be safe and dry and overlay this tragedy with your own self interests. Sorry, it's bigger than us. It isn't about our gun rights. It's about tragedy and sorrow and lots of pain that those folks are experiencing.
Reading all the news provides me many mixed feelings and even contradictory ones. I don't want looting and shooting or any other illegal, unethical activity. But we are slipping into a Lord of the Flies situation down there and it just might be best to sit back and take a deep breath before we pass judgements on all that is going on.
Some folks here have strongly held convictions and stick like glue to those positions. More power to you. But, this situation isn't hypothetical. This isn't a game. This is a disaster of major proportions that has only just begun.
Some here are concerned about law and order and how it can defend their view of right and wrong. Others argue for compassion and sympathy (empathy is tougher). Some care about their property because...well frankly, to some (note I wrote "some") that's how they define themselves. Others see only the humanity, but that's a tough thing for many people to see on a board dedicated to firearms. It's just so easy to be safe and dry and overlay this tragedy with your own self interests. Sorry, it's bigger than us. It isn't about our gun rights. It's about tragedy and sorrow and lots of pain that those folks are experiencing.
Reading all the news provides me many mixed feelings and even contradictory ones. I don't want looting and shooting or any other illegal, unethical activity. But we are slipping into a Lord of the Flies situation down there and it just might be best to sit back and take a deep breath before we pass judgements on all that is going on.
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