Looters in New Orleans
- Thread starter yorick
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MICHAEL T
Member
Its going to get worst before it gets better
M-Rex
member
Lucky, I appreciate what your saying, but there is NO justification for looting. I dare say, you wouldn't feel so altruistic if it was your home being ransacked, or your business being forcibly broken into and plundered.
John G
Member
What's the legality of shooting looters?
I mean sure, that's not the first thing on the mind of a property owner in N.O. right now, but I'm anticipating the heartbreaking aftermath. Any info on Louisiana shoot/no shoot precedent?
I mean sure, that's not the first thing on the mind of a property owner in N.O. right now, but I'm anticipating the heartbreaking aftermath. Any info on Louisiana shoot/no shoot precedent?
Preacherman
Member
Cgjunk2, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your basic premises. To take them one at a time:
Err... no. Everyone in New Orleans was advised repeatedly, over all broadcast media, in all newspapers, even via loudspeaker from police and military vehicles, that FREE transportation was available to eleven designated shelters. No-one had to remain where they were.
Sorry, but again, I must disagree. Out of approximately one-and-a-half million people in the greater New Orleans metropolitan area and the parishes to the south, as far as we know, well over one-and-a-quarter million made it out in time. Of the rest, something like sixty or seventy thousand made it to designated shelters. There is no reason whatsoever why the remainder could not have done the same, particularly since free public transport was laid on for the final 24 hours.
Well, if you evacuated to the shelter in time, you could take the entire kit with you, and take it into the shelter. TV footage shows refugees going in with suitcases, backpacks, cooler boxes, etc. Under such circumstances, your kit would be right where you need it. If you left it on the kitchen floor and suddenly had to take to the attic to avoid rapidly-rising floodwaters, then I'm afraid you're SOL right there. As for those folks who are "going to dry land", there are shelters, Red Cross support, etc. available for all of them. They may not have much of their own possessions, but they'll have what they need to survive, if necessary for months.
Here, I agree with you. It's useless to defend property that is going to be submerged within a measurably short period of time. I'd take what is essential to my survival and bug out, or defend those essentials in a safe place. If someone wants to steal them, he can explain to St. Peter about his unexpectedly early demise. If he asks me for food, it won't "change the moral situation completely" at all - I shall simply point him in the general direction of the nearest shelter or Red Cross station, where he can get what he wants free of charge. If that isn't good enough for him - tough.
coonan357
Member
while watching the tube I noticed one thing while they where evacuating only one side of the higway was being used ! I know they had some emergency euipment coming in but they could have made them a lane or two to get thru . this in my opinion was the most poorly exicuted thing in ages they never prepared they had it won't happen to me mentallity when it came to the studies 5 yrs ago about the levy situation , and we as citizens are also blame about our own infrastructure reling upon one port to be the major one for the whole midwest?? I think things are going to change . but my answer is the looters are going to drown if they think that a tv/clothes /jewery is more important that food . 1st of all where you going to plug it in ?? theres no electricity ... If I was there in theresituation getting food for the trip out of dodge would be first in my priorities . and if we had a disaster like that one up here (closest thing was plainfield tornado) I am sure the peole wouldn't think twice in protecting there property with force . if I had a store its insured let them have it . my house is another story !
ezypikns
Member
The Basic Necessities are One Thing.......
and no one should be denied those, but just out and out thievery is quite another. I believe there's some kind of "Commandment" or something, isn't there? There was a time in this country (although generally in times of Martial Law) when looters were shot on sight by members of the military patrolling the streets. Maybe it's time to declare Martial Law in the Crescent City.
and no one should be denied those, but just out and out thievery is quite another. I believe there's some kind of "Commandment" or something, isn't there? There was a time in this country (although generally in times of Martial Law) when looters were shot on sight by members of the military patrolling the streets. Maybe it's time to declare Martial Law in the Crescent City.
Sportcat
Member
There was news footage this morning by a cameraman walking through a looted (in the process of) Wal-Mart. He walked up to two cops who were taking shoes. They said "we're just doing our jobs." :banghead:
I'm glad they are on video - hopefully that will make prosecutions a little easier!
I'm glad they are on video - hopefully that will make prosecutions a little easier!
bogie
Member
The way I see it, most of the folks still there CHOSE to be there. And I'll venture that more than a few of 'em already planned to steal stuff.
As for the ethics of shooting a looter on one's property: If you've worked all your life for that house and its contents, and it made it through the storm okay, only to have a pack of human jackals descend, and they're going to come in, toss family pictures in the muck, etc... Well, that's just wrong.
I suspect that the Superdome is gonna get _really bad_. I'm wondering if they're _letting folks leave_. If not, it's gonna get ugly today. At the very least, I'd chopper in some generators and fuel bladders, and _televisions_. Hook those puppies up to the satellite, and get the minds numbed...
As for the ethics of shooting a looter on one's property: If you've worked all your life for that house and its contents, and it made it through the storm okay, only to have a pack of human jackals descend, and they're going to come in, toss family pictures in the muck, etc... Well, that's just wrong.
I suspect that the Superdome is gonna get _really bad_. I'm wondering if they're _letting folks leave_. If not, it's gonna get ugly today. At the very least, I'd chopper in some generators and fuel bladders, and _televisions_. Hook those puppies up to the satellite, and get the minds numbed...
JamisJockey
member
By BRETT MARTEL, Associated Press Writer
8 minutes ago
NEW ORLEANS - The governor of Louisiana says everyone needs to leave New Orleans due to flooding from Hurricane Katrina. "We've sent buses in. We will be either loading them by boat, helicopter, anything that is necessary," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said. Army engineers struggled without success to plug New Orleans' breached levees with sandbags, and Blanco said Wednesday the situation was worsening, leaving no choice but to evacuate.
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"The challenge is an engineering nightmare," Blanco said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "The National Guard has been dropping sandbags into it, but it's like dropping it into a black hole."
As the waters continued to rise in New Orleans, four Navy ships raced toward the Gulf Coast with drinking water and other emergency supplies, and Red Cross workers from across the country converged on the devastated region. The Red Cross reported it had about 40,000 people in 200 shelters across the area.
Officials said the death toll from Hurricane Katrina had reached at least 110 in Mississippi, while Louisiana put aside the counting of the dead to concentrate on rescuing the living, many of whom were still trapped on rooftops and in attics.
Blanco acknowledged that looting was a severe problem but said that officials had to focus on survivors. "We don't like looters one bit, but first and foremost is search and rescue," she said.
To repair one of the levees holding back Lake Pontchartrain, officials late Tuesday dropped 3,000-pound sandbags from helicopters and hauled dozens of 15-foot concrete barriers into the breach. Maj. Gen. Don Riley of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said officials also had a more audacious plan: finding a barge to plug the 500-foot hole.
Riley said it could take close to a month to get the water out of the city. If the water rises a few feet higher, it could also wipe out the water system for the whole city, said New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert.
Blanco said she wanted the Superdome — which had become a shelter of last resort for about 20,000 people — evacuated within two days, though was still unclear where the people would go. The air conditioning inside the Superdome was out, the toilets were broken, and tempers were rising in the sweltering heat. "Conditions are degenerating rapidly," she said. "It's a very, very desperate situation."
The Federal Emergency Management Agency was considering putting people on cruise ships, in tent cities, mobile home parks, and so-called floating dormitories — boats the agency uses to house its own employees.
A helicopter view of the devastation over Louisiana and Mississippi revealed people standing on black rooftops, baking in the sunshine while waiting for rescue boats.
"I can only imagine that this is what Hiroshima looked like 60 years ago," said Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour after touring the destruction by air Tuesday.
All day long, rescuers in boats and helicopters plucked bedraggled flood refugees from rooftops and attics. Louisiana Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu said 3,000 people have been rescued by boat and air, some placed shivering and wet into helicopter baskets. They were brought by the truckload into shelters, some in wheelchairs and some carrying babies, with stories of survival and of those who didn't make it.
"Oh my God, it was hell," said Kioka Williams, who had to hack through the ceiling of the beauty shop where she worked as floodwaters rose in New Orleans' low-lying Ninth Ward. "We were screaming, hollering, flashing lights. It was complete chaos."
Looting broke out in some New Orleans neighborhoods, prompting authorities to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city. One police officer was shot in the head by a looter but was expected to recover, authorities said.
On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
Officials said it was simply too early to estimate a death toll. One Mississippi county alone said it had suffered at least 100 deaths, and officials are "very, very worried that this is going to go a lot higher," said Joe Spraggins, civil defense director for Harrison County, home to Biloxi and Gulfport. In neighboring Jackson County, officials said at least 10 deaths were blamed on the storm.
Several of dead in Harrison County were from a beachfront apartment building that collapsed under a 25-foot wall of water as Hurricane Katrina slammed the Gulf Coast with 145-mph winds Monday. Louisiana officials said many were feared dead there, too, making Katrina one of the most punishing storms to hit the United States in decades.
Blanco asked residents to spend Wednesday in prayer.
"That would be the best thing to calm our spirits and thank our Lord that we are survivors," she said. "Slowly, gradually, we will recover; we will survive; we will rebuild."
Across Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, more than 1 million residents remained without electricity, some without clean drinking water. Officials said it could be weeks, if not months, before most evacuees will be able to return.
Emergency medical teams from across the country were sent into the region and President Bush cut short his Texas vacation Tuesday to return to Washington to focus on the storm damage.
Federal Emergency Management Agency director Mike Brown warned that structural damage to homes, diseases from animal carcasses and chemicals in floodwaters made it unsafe for residents to come home anytime soon. The sweltering city of 480,000 had no drinkable water, and the electricity could be out for weeks.
Katrina, which was downgraded to a tropical depression, packed winds around 30 mph as it moved through the Ohio Valley early Wednesday, with the potential to dump 8 inches of rain and spin off deadly tornadoes.
The remnants of Katrina spawned bands of storms and tornadoes across Georgia that caused at least two deaths, multiple injuries and leveled dozens of buildings. A tornado damaged 13 homes near Marshall, Va.
___
Associated Press reporters Holbrook Mohr, Mary Foster, Allen G. Breed, Adam Nossiter and Jay Reeves contributed to this report.
___
Pretty soon,the whole place will be underwater. Maybe this is what happened to Atlantis....
8 minutes ago
NEW ORLEANS - The governor of Louisiana says everyone needs to leave New Orleans due to flooding from Hurricane Katrina. "We've sent buses in. We will be either loading them by boat, helicopter, anything that is necessary," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said. Army engineers struggled without success to plug New Orleans' breached levees with sandbags, and Blanco said Wednesday the situation was worsening, leaving no choice but to evacuate.
ADVERTISEMENT
"The challenge is an engineering nightmare," Blanco said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "The National Guard has been dropping sandbags into it, but it's like dropping it into a black hole."
As the waters continued to rise in New Orleans, four Navy ships raced toward the Gulf Coast with drinking water and other emergency supplies, and Red Cross workers from across the country converged on the devastated region. The Red Cross reported it had about 40,000 people in 200 shelters across the area.
Officials said the death toll from Hurricane Katrina had reached at least 110 in Mississippi, while Louisiana put aside the counting of the dead to concentrate on rescuing the living, many of whom were still trapped on rooftops and in attics.
Blanco acknowledged that looting was a severe problem but said that officials had to focus on survivors. "We don't like looters one bit, but first and foremost is search and rescue," she said.
To repair one of the levees holding back Lake Pontchartrain, officials late Tuesday dropped 3,000-pound sandbags from helicopters and hauled dozens of 15-foot concrete barriers into the breach. Maj. Gen. Don Riley of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said officials also had a more audacious plan: finding a barge to plug the 500-foot hole.
Riley said it could take close to a month to get the water out of the city. If the water rises a few feet higher, it could also wipe out the water system for the whole city, said New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert.
Blanco said she wanted the Superdome — which had become a shelter of last resort for about 20,000 people — evacuated within two days, though was still unclear where the people would go. The air conditioning inside the Superdome was out, the toilets were broken, and tempers were rising in the sweltering heat. "Conditions are degenerating rapidly," she said. "It's a very, very desperate situation."
The Federal Emergency Management Agency was considering putting people on cruise ships, in tent cities, mobile home parks, and so-called floating dormitories — boats the agency uses to house its own employees.
A helicopter view of the devastation over Louisiana and Mississippi revealed people standing on black rooftops, baking in the sunshine while waiting for rescue boats.
"I can only imagine that this is what Hiroshima looked like 60 years ago," said Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour after touring the destruction by air Tuesday.
All day long, rescuers in boats and helicopters plucked bedraggled flood refugees from rooftops and attics. Louisiana Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu said 3,000 people have been rescued by boat and air, some placed shivering and wet into helicopter baskets. They were brought by the truckload into shelters, some in wheelchairs and some carrying babies, with stories of survival and of those who didn't make it.
"Oh my God, it was hell," said Kioka Williams, who had to hack through the ceiling of the beauty shop where she worked as floodwaters rose in New Orleans' low-lying Ninth Ward. "We were screaming, hollering, flashing lights. It was complete chaos."
Looting broke out in some New Orleans neighborhoods, prompting authorities to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city. One police officer was shot in the head by a looter but was expected to recover, authorities said.
On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
Officials said it was simply too early to estimate a death toll. One Mississippi county alone said it had suffered at least 100 deaths, and officials are "very, very worried that this is going to go a lot higher," said Joe Spraggins, civil defense director for Harrison County, home to Biloxi and Gulfport. In neighboring Jackson County, officials said at least 10 deaths were blamed on the storm.
Several of dead in Harrison County were from a beachfront apartment building that collapsed under a 25-foot wall of water as Hurricane Katrina slammed the Gulf Coast with 145-mph winds Monday. Louisiana officials said many were feared dead there, too, making Katrina one of the most punishing storms to hit the United States in decades.
Blanco asked residents to spend Wednesday in prayer.
"That would be the best thing to calm our spirits and thank our Lord that we are survivors," she said. "Slowly, gradually, we will recover; we will survive; we will rebuild."
Across Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, more than 1 million residents remained without electricity, some without clean drinking water. Officials said it could be weeks, if not months, before most evacuees will be able to return.
Emergency medical teams from across the country were sent into the region and President Bush cut short his Texas vacation Tuesday to return to Washington to focus on the storm damage.
Federal Emergency Management Agency director Mike Brown warned that structural damage to homes, diseases from animal carcasses and chemicals in floodwaters made it unsafe for residents to come home anytime soon. The sweltering city of 480,000 had no drinkable water, and the electricity could be out for weeks.
Katrina, which was downgraded to a tropical depression, packed winds around 30 mph as it moved through the Ohio Valley early Wednesday, with the potential to dump 8 inches of rain and spin off deadly tornadoes.
The remnants of Katrina spawned bands of storms and tornadoes across Georgia that caused at least two deaths, multiple injuries and leveled dozens of buildings. A tornado damaged 13 homes near Marshall, Va.
___
Associated Press reporters Holbrook Mohr, Mary Foster, Allen G. Breed, Adam Nossiter and Jay Reeves contributed to this report.
___
Pretty soon,the whole place will be underwater. Maybe this is what happened to Atlantis....
HankB
Member
After the Martin Luther King assassination, when much of Detroit burned, rioting/looting in Chicago (where I lived at the time) was halted before it really got started.
Hizzoner Mayor Richard J. Daley (the father of the current mayor) issued a very public order to the police - SHOOT TO KILL arsonists, SHOOT TO MAIM looters.
Aside from howls of protest from the usual suspects, the net effect was to put an immediate halt to both arson and looting.
Now I read about New Orleans cops joining in the looting, or standing by and doing nothing . . . I wonder if they'd still do nothing if the store owner showed up and shot a couple of looters. If they'd intervene then, in effect they're a security detail for the looters. Hmmm . . .
I seem to remember reading a few years back that the arrest rate of New Orleans cops was the highest in the nation . . .
Hizzoner Mayor Richard J. Daley (the father of the current mayor) issued a very public order to the police - SHOOT TO KILL arsonists, SHOOT TO MAIM looters.
Aside from howls of protest from the usual suspects, the net effect was to put an immediate halt to both arson and looting.
Now I read about New Orleans cops joining in the looting, or standing by and doing nothing . . . I wonder if they'd still do nothing if the store owner showed up and shot a couple of looters. If they'd intervene then, in effect they're a security detail for the looters. Hmmm . . .
I seem to remember reading a few years back that the arrest rate of New Orleans cops was the highest in the nation . . .
Today's The New York Post reported that it's reporter witnessed the New Orleans Police SWAT Team loot a shoe store.
Aside from that, one photo shows a NO officer carrying what appears to be a scoped lever action Marlin rifle. Probably a personal weapon.
NYPD is sending a team of officers to NO.
Aside from that, one photo shows a NO officer carrying what appears to be a scoped lever action Marlin rifle. Probably a personal weapon.
NYPD is sending a team of officers to NO.
Partisan Ranger
Member
It's probably been said elsewhere on this thread, but the chaos in New Orleans with the looting, lack of police enforcing the law etc. really does show why the citizenry being armed is a good thing. I just read a report at Michelle Malkin's site about how store owners are sitting in front of their establishments armed to the teeth, with You Loot I Shoot signs. If the anti-gun scum had their way, those poor people would be utterly defenseless.
There are times when man must fend for himself, even in our highly advanced society.
There are times when man must fend for himself, even in our highly advanced society.
Kjervin
Member
I suspect that you are correct. I bet if a store owner opened fire on looters (of if WalMart sent a Tac Team to secure their store 
) you would see how POWERFUL the police would be. In the end, the police aren't gonna risk their lives to protect your stuff. I wonder if they would even try to stop the looters from ransacking a non-detention police substation.
That said, if someone tried to come into my house after it survived the storm, I would "repel all borders". As for a store, that's what insurance is for. OTOH, if my store was more sturdy or on higher ground then my house, I would move my family to the store and defend that ground.
KJ
) you would see how POWERFUL the police would be. In the end, the police aren't gonna risk their lives to protect your stuff. I wonder if they would even try to stop the looters from ransacking a non-detention police substation. That said, if someone tried to come into my house after it survived the storm, I would "repel all borders". As for a store, that's what insurance is for. OTOH, if my store was more sturdy or on higher ground then my house, I would move my family to the store and defend that ground.
KJ
Kjervin
Member
Another thought...
Since most walmarts carry firearms, I wonder if NO police would be so "powerless" if people were looting firearms and ammo instead of TV's and jewelry!
Kj
Since most walmarts carry firearms, I wonder if NO police would be so "powerless" if people were looting firearms and ammo instead of TV's and jewelry!
Kj
Just heard that more shots fired at police by looters, with guns & ammo stolen from the pawn/gun shops. If the cops are complicit in, or participating in, the looting, then they're encouraging a behavior that's going to come back & bite them in the arse. If I was a 'good cop', then boy would I be hacked at the bad ones encouraging the looting. It just may get really bad there. Only thing gonna help it is that the water & heat will slow down the looters/rioters quite a bit.
Well, Wally Mart guns have been taken:
"A giant new Wal-Mart in New Orleans was looted, and the entire gun collection was taken, The Times-Picayune reported. "There are gangs of armed men in the city moving around the city," said Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief. Also, looters tried to break into Children's Hospital, the governor's office said."
The link to the story
"A giant new Wal-Mart in New Orleans was looted, and the entire gun collection was taken, The Times-Picayune reported. "There are gangs of armed men in the city moving around the city," said Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief. Also, looters tried to break into Children's Hospital, the governor's office said."
The link to the story
DrDremel
Member
There is a large community of low-income people in the hurricane destruction area. These people are living week to week financially. They don’t have enough savings in many circumstances to stock up on everything they might need. They may not have a vehicle to leave and no place to go. Their only option was to stay put. For them, if the hurricane were not as bad as it was, they would be in desperate measures trying to leave. I am sure that some people did stock up. But what if it was washed away or destroyed. To take food water, medical supplies or items to survive is not unreasonable. Those that are taking video games, TVs, jewelry, and other luxury items are just plain stealing. Not to condone their actions but I would bet that some do not have any insurance to cover their loss and they are looking at this as survival as well. Others are simply taking advantage of the opportunity.
If I were there right now with my 10 week old daughter, who needs special formula, and everything was lost., I would be out doing whatever is necessary to provide food, water, diapers and sanitary items for my family. With no clean water, and little means of evacuation, it would be life and death. You could not buy supplies right now even if you have the money. To steal from someone else in need is one thing but to take what is needed to live until tomorrow is different. I have mixed feeling here. If the devastation was not as severe, I would agree about the looting but in many cases these people have no other choice. They can take what they need to survive, or die from polluted food and water. I predict the death toll to hit 500 or more if the real numbers are given. To have no home, no means to support your family and to be stuck in that situation would cause everyone to think in terms of survival.
This is a prime example that you would need to defend yourself and your belongings. Living in Michigan, it is hard to come up with a scenario that would demolish the entire infrastructure of society as much as what happened there. You can bet that the UN won’t be sending relief efforts. The US and your family is on your own. Your supplies wiped out, if you have no place to go, you are in real trouble. Most survival scenarios I can come up with around here would not wipe out all supplies and transportation options. This is close to a worst case scenario. About the only thing worse would be biological weapons or nuclear attack.
If I were there right now with my 10 week old daughter, who needs special formula, and everything was lost., I would be out doing whatever is necessary to provide food, water, diapers and sanitary items for my family. With no clean water, and little means of evacuation, it would be life and death. You could not buy supplies right now even if you have the money. To steal from someone else in need is one thing but to take what is needed to live until tomorrow is different. I have mixed feeling here. If the devastation was not as severe, I would agree about the looting but in many cases these people have no other choice. They can take what they need to survive, or die from polluted food and water. I predict the death toll to hit 500 or more if the real numbers are given. To have no home, no means to support your family and to be stuck in that situation would cause everyone to think in terms of survival.
This is a prime example that you would need to defend yourself and your belongings. Living in Michigan, it is hard to come up with a scenario that would demolish the entire infrastructure of society as much as what happened there. You can bet that the UN won’t be sending relief efforts. The US and your family is on your own. Your supplies wiped out, if you have no place to go, you are in real trouble. Most survival scenarios I can come up with around here would not wipe out all supplies and transportation options. This is close to a worst case scenario. About the only thing worse would be biological weapons or nuclear attack.
Lighten up on most of those people
What do you think? Should police shoot someone for being armed?? Just keep in mind that the news will only print the bad news. Most of those people are really interested in getting SOMETHING to drink. There is no water. Food is wasted if not used anyway. No one is able to help them at this time. We would all do the same for survival food and water. As for guns, there are probably many times more guns in NO than were in the gunshops.
Keep in mind that there are only a small percentage of animals among the normal people trapped by circumstance. Think of it, no car, no available space on commercial transportation, -- many just couldn't get out. And as usual, the government was NO help. We have seen many people trapped by circumstance before, just not on this scale in this country. I agree that cops should be shooting some looters and predators, but I also think that what emergency workers are available should be helping find and distribute food and water. Shoot anyone obviously looting or obvious breakin to homes, but man, those folks are in survival mode for the most part. You can tell a real looter from a person trying to survive. Some folks are too eager to start shooting people for the wrong reasons.
What do you think? Should police shoot someone for being armed?? Just keep in mind that the news will only print the bad news. Most of those people are really interested in getting SOMETHING to drink. There is no water. Food is wasted if not used anyway. No one is able to help them at this time. We would all do the same for survival food and water. As for guns, there are probably many times more guns in NO than were in the gunshops.
Keep in mind that there are only a small percentage of animals among the normal people trapped by circumstance. Think of it, no car, no available space on commercial transportation, -- many just couldn't get out. And as usual, the government was NO help. We have seen many people trapped by circumstance before, just not on this scale in this country. I agree that cops should be shooting some looters and predators, but I also think that what emergency workers are available should be helping find and distribute food and water. Shoot anyone obviously looting or obvious breakin to homes, but man, those folks are in survival mode for the most part. You can tell a real looter from a person trying to survive. Some folks are too eager to start shooting people for the wrong reasons.
The situation looks like this to me:
Since yesterday, and the failure to be able to stop the flooding through the levees (indeed it seems to have gotten worse), it is going to be impossible to keep the entire city from becoming flooded. In that case, anyone who is expending any energy in either looting, or trying to stop looters, has had a severe failure of their survival instinct. The only rational thing for anyone to be doing in N.O. right now is to be getting out of that town.
It is going to take months for the levees to be repaired, then more months for the water to be pumped out, then more months for the city to be basically bulldozed flat and rebuilding to start. Holding on to the illusion that you just need to steal a few days food, or that you are going to be able to save any of your personal or business property is silly, and could be fatal.
Face it folks, if you lived or worked in N.O. you don't anymore. N.O. as we knew it, has ceased to exist and will never be the same. This makes me sad -- it is one of my favorite cities -- I just spent a week there last month on vacation, and did visit fairly often. That is over I am afraid.
Since yesterday, and the failure to be able to stop the flooding through the levees (indeed it seems to have gotten worse), it is going to be impossible to keep the entire city from becoming flooded. In that case, anyone who is expending any energy in either looting, or trying to stop looters, has had a severe failure of their survival instinct. The only rational thing for anyone to be doing in N.O. right now is to be getting out of that town.
It is going to take months for the levees to be repaired, then more months for the water to be pumped out, then more months for the city to be basically bulldozed flat and rebuilding to start. Holding on to the illusion that you just need to steal a few days food, or that you are going to be able to save any of your personal or business property is silly, and could be fatal.
Face it folks, if you lived or worked in N.O. you don't anymore. N.O. as we knew it, has ceased to exist and will never be the same. This makes me sad -- it is one of my favorite cities -- I just spent a week there last month on vacation, and did visit fairly often. That is over I am afraid.
toivo
Member
Unfortunately, some of those shelters are now at risk, like the Superdome. 20-30,000 with no power, food, water. (Although I'm sure the rescue teams have gotten in there by now with some supplies.) Everyone was looking at hurricane risk, but they weren't planning for the levee breaches and flooding. Some people had already headed back home when the flooding hit, based partly on the rosy reports from the news media saying that New Orleans was mostly OK.
I used to live in an earthquake-prone area, and there were designated "evacuation centers," where you supposed to go and wait to be told what to do next. I decided was that if there ever was a catastrophe, I wasn't going to go to the evacuation center. I kept my dirt bike full of gas at all times. That was my evacuation plan.
Borachon
Member
It's really funny to me to see how many of you are supporting the idea of shooting looters who are taking food and water. The city is still flooding. There is NO fresh water. It's over 90 degrees, and you guys are moralizing about what you would and wouldn't do during a disaster, and what other people should or shouldn't be allowed to do. In my opinion, you shoot to protect your LIFE. Everything else you ought to be able to work out without shooting.
Let 'em take whatever they want. Why do I say that? Cause everybody needs food. If you are stupid enough to focus on stealing a DVD player instead of bottled water, then shooting them isn't necessary because this is a problem that Darwin will fix all by himself. Profiting is going to be impossible because the govt isn't going to let people take DVD players with them when they evac the city.
Imagine that your precious cache of guns and ammo, and food, were destroyed in an earthquake and that you had no house or fresh water, and that the only way to escape was to walk 150 miles until you got somewhere.
Most of you would do the same that the looters are. Except that many of you would be more dangerous, because you would have probably kept hold of one or two of your handguns. You'd kill to get away. Or for a half loaf of bread. Or for a glass of water. Don't be so quick to judge. Shoe may be on the other foot really soon now.
Now then...why am I insulting you by saying this? Because maybe one or two of you will feel enough shame if you ever find yourself in this situation to rob someone at gunpoint. And refrain from killing them to take what they have. So try to remember what YOU said, and what I said.
Also, work on your sympathy and empathy. Many of you have got poor imaginations if you can't picture these types of situations happening to you.
Let 'em take whatever they want. Why do I say that? Cause everybody needs food. If you are stupid enough to focus on stealing a DVD player instead of bottled water, then shooting them isn't necessary because this is a problem that Darwin will fix all by himself. Profiting is going to be impossible because the govt isn't going to let people take DVD players with them when they evac the city.
Imagine that your precious cache of guns and ammo, and food, were destroyed in an earthquake and that you had no house or fresh water, and that the only way to escape was to walk 150 miles until you got somewhere.
Most of you would do the same that the looters are. Except that many of you would be more dangerous, because you would have probably kept hold of one or two of your handguns. You'd kill to get away. Or for a half loaf of bread. Or for a glass of water. Don't be so quick to judge. Shoe may be on the other foot really soon now.
Now then...why am I insulting you by saying this? Because maybe one or two of you will feel enough shame if you ever find yourself in this situation to rob someone at gunpoint. And refrain from killing them to take what they have. So try to remember what YOU said, and what I said.
Also, work on your sympathy and empathy. Many of you have got poor imaginations if you can't picture these types of situations happening to you.
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