M1 Carbine or Camp 45?

[Dr_2_B]

This is just a passing thought I had tonight. An idle curiosity. Would you rather have an M1 Carbine or a [edited] Camp 45? I'm intentionally leaving the purpose somewhat vague, but I'm talking about real-life use rather than competition or something. I'm imagining home defense, ranch use, the like.

To make it equitable, let's say either could have 10 round or 15 round mags. And why would you choose the one you do?

 

[firesky101]

Marlin camp 45 is what I think you meant to say. But I would take the M1 anyways. Still very effective at close range, but has a lot longer legs than the .45 cap.

 

[Devonai]

I can't imagine the Marlin would stand up to the same kind of abuse as an M1 Carbine. For occasional use, then the intended range is the only real issue. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it generally more difficult to find a Camp .45 these days than an M1?

 

[chris in va]

After watching an M1 carbine blast powder into a guy's face due to an out of battery firing, I cannot recommend one. Voted for the 45.

 

[Devonai]

With all due respect, that's a false dichotomy. Given one of each rifle, in perfect condition, a fair comparison can be made. One incident with one rifle does not a pattern make. I can certainly understand why such an incident would give you pause, but there are too many variables to categorically reject the M1 Carbine based on one injurious occurrence.

A legitimate discussion could be had on the relative merits of relying on a military surplus M1, considering the potential problems involved with 70+ year old parts that may have experienced hard use. For the purposes of this thread, however, the only fair comparison is that between new or like new rifles.

 

[56hawk]

While on the weak side, the 30 carbine is still a rifle round. The 45 ACP is a pistol round and gains little or nothing from the rifle length barrel. In fact with some ammo 45 ACP will actually be slower from the longer barrel. So, short of running a suppressor, I can't really see any situation where the Camp Carbine would be desirable over the M1.

 

[rswartsell]

The .30 carbine in a walk. Good luck with paying a reasonable price at this late date.

The .45 ACP is great in 1911's and disappoints as a carbine round.

The .30 carbine round disappoints as a rifle round, but your whole post says what is the better compromise and the answer is the .30 carbine.

 

[rcmodel]

While neither is still in production as such.

The M1 Carbine was a military issue weapon that worked reliably in at least three wars (WWII, Korea, and Vietnam) and innumerable "police actions" all over the world.

If a Camp carbine breaks, it is likely to stay broke for quite some time while you try to find parts to fix it.

If a M1 Carbine breaks, which is very unlikely after three wars of product testing?

You can get parts from any of several sources by the crate full, if you have enough money.


As for power?
It has way more power then a .357 Magnum revolver or .45 ACP pistol.
And it holds 30 rounds instead of just 6, or 7.

As for accuracy?
Go stand out there at 200 yards and state which one you would rather be shot at with?
I bet it won't be the M1 Carbine!

rc

 

[MachIVshooter]

The M1 Carbine was a military issue weapon that worked reliably in at least three wars (WWII, Korea, and Vietnam) and innumerable "police actions" all over the world.

The military rifle did. Commercially produced M1 carbines are another matter entirely. I have only seen a handful that were decent and would run reliably.

I'd take my Camp 45 over any commercial M1 carbine. Versus a FA M2, though? That math is easy.

Of course, I prefer an AR to both for any purpose.

 

[mavracer]

I sold my Camp Carbine because I got a M1 carbine.

 

[jon86]

I dont have any experience with any of these guns. However, if I found them each for a good price, and was considering them for the same roles, I'd take the M1 Carbine. I'll admit it, it has almost nothing to do with ballistics.

I think M1 carbines look cool.

And for their historical significance.

I keep thinking that an AR15 would do a better job though.

 

[jimwill48]

Have both

 

[Furncliff]

I like pistol caliber carbines, and currently own three. I would trade my Camp 9 and Hi Point .45 for a M1 Carbine.
I was looking to duplicate the M1 Carbines characteristics for something much less than the 650-800+ dollars they go for.
That was a mistake.

 

[SHR970]

M1 in a heart beat.

I have a Camp 9 and an M1.

The Camp carbine trigger guard is made of ABS plastic...more than one solvent will melt it. If you need to reassemble one you'll need four hands and five slave pins to get it back together.

The Camp is a 100 yard gun; the carbine 200+.

The Camp needs its recoil buffer; you'll want to get spares.

The Camp doesn't do +P or hot ammo...Buffalo Bore et. al. is out of the question. The M1 has a definite power advantage.

Camp 45's have been known to crack their stocks...the M1's are not as delicate.

The Camp 45 is a blowback gun...The M1 is gas operated.

 

[SHR970]

Chris in Va...do you know the gun that was the subject of your repeated in many posts insistence that the M1 is unsafe? Do you know what the then owner had done in regards to maintenance, modifications, etc? Do you know if the gun was inspected after the incident by a competent smith and what the determination was?

To the out of battery shot issue...I've seen a Garand and a Tupperware gun do that too. When a Garand fires out of battery it gets every ones attention.

Considering over 6 million M1s were made during WWII, they were shipped all over the world, used in three wars, used and abused by God knows whom, then they came back 40- 60+ years later, then tinkered with by God knows whom, I think that to pillory every M1 based on one incident is a very unfair broad brush to paint all M1's with.

 

[Batty67]

I have both. The M1 is an Auto Ordnance and has been made to be tacticool (to a limited extent). Very accurate, somewhat fussy with ammo. More than I'd like.

My Camp 45 is a recent addition and I love it. With the 21-pd spring and replaced recoil I can shoot +P rounds all day long. I even shoot Super 45 out of it. But sparingly. Once I'm out I'll stick with +P for HD. Very reliable, accurate, but runs filthy given its design.

 

[RCArms.com]

Having had both at one time, I still own 4 M1 carbines and the Marlin camp9 and camp 45 rifles have been sold off.

For every imaginable purposes, the M1 carbine is, IMHO, the clear winner.

Think of it as an auto-loading .357 Magnum and you begin to see the advantages.

Don

 

[chieftain]

I also own both. My M1 carbine was made in 1943 by national postal meter. Paid an arm and a leg for it, fifty bucks not quite 20 years ago.

Got the Marlin 45 about 12 years ago. The stock was beginning to split, so I put it in a high quality Chote folding stock.

Not surprisingly, the M1 is much more reliable with either 15 or 30 round "actual" GI magazines.

And, the M1's ballistics just blows the 45 out of the water. For serious social intercourse, I like Cor-Bon's DPX load.

The Marlin is fun, the M1 is more fun, reliable, and of course, history.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[jerrard]

I have had my G I carbine (Inland) since 1967. Have had only a hand full of stovepipes and
failure to feed up to now. I broke a M2 bolt at the extractor. I can't begin to estimate how many
thousands of rounds have been through it. It would not be near my first choice for
hunting or defense but I enjoy shooting it more than any other rifle I have ever shot.

 

[stiab]

The 45 ACP is a pistol round and gains little or nothing from the rifle length barrel. In fact with some ammo 45 ACP will actually be slower from the longer barrel.

That's incorrect, but a common misconception. I have owned two .45 Camp Carbines, and ran actual chonograph tests on many .45acp factory rounds in comparison with a 4" S&W Model 625 revolver. Athough I don't have the actual numbers with me now because I am traveling, the average gain was about 200 fps from the Camp Carbine. Winchester WB ran at over 1100 fps. That is a significant improvement.

 

[56hawk]

That's incorrect, but a common misconception.

I didn't say it was true for all guns and all ammo. If you look at the graph, there are several rounds that lose velocity with longer barrels. I have also seen magazine articles where lower velocities were measured out of carbine length barrels compared to a 1911.

 

[stiab]

I didn't say it was true for all guns and all ammo. If you look at the graph, there are several rounds that lose velocity with longer barrels.

The slower burning the powder the greater the increase, but of the dozen or more I tested they ALL increased by a significant portion. Your graph does not show velocity.

 

[56hawk]

The velocity graph would look the same. Here is the website it is from if you want to check: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

I don't doubt that you got lower velocities with a 625. A short 4" barrel and a cylinder gap are really going to hurt the velocity.

 

[firesky101]

56hawk is right if you are looking at the vast majority of .45acp that has been produced since its inception. 230gr standard pressure, there is a reason those M1928's had 10.5" barrels 12" if you count the compensator. They just did not get any gain after that, in fact they were losing velocity on an 18" barrel like the m1 carbine had. Lighter weight bullets do better in the longer barrels, and so do +P. So with modern ammo the .45acp can benefit from a carbine length barrel, but not much and only with the right ammo.

 

[Blackrock]

Don't leave out the Hi Point .45acp carbine as a choice either. I carry mine a lot onn my Polaris Ranger or Jeep CJ5. I did vote for the Marlin though.