Man killed during dispute regarding Child Protective Services action

[CAS700850]

SteveS has a good and valid point, back to the original thread and not the hijacking along the way. Here you have a social worker in obviously dangerous environments as required by her job, and her only means of protaction is another person. What if Daddy Dearest had gone after the officer first? Social worker runs for her life, best bet.

My best friend in law school had been a probation officer in Arizona, and was issued pepper spray and handcuffs. No firearms were permitted. Of course, concealed means concealed... Maybe this social worker should read that line...

 

[Sindawe]

I am curious. How many of you work in places where you are denied the basic right of self-protection?

My last place of employment did. Stated such in the policy manual. Silly, since we had ready access to all sorts of sharp objects, heavy objects, leathal gases, fire, flammable liquids and flingable acids and bases. I had to tell the maintenance guys that it was NOT a good idea to mix bleach and acid. That pretty green smoke is really a chemical weapon (chlorine gas).

I've not asked my current employer about it, yet.

SteveS has a good point. While a PRIVATE employer may set the rules of employment it desires no matter how wrong-headed they may be, the STATE should NOT be able to do such. Of course, the STATE should not be attempting to infringe on the liberties of its non-employee citizens either.

 

[itgoesboom]

This is an issue that concerns me greatly.

See, my wife is a social worker. She works for an agency that provides parenting help to first time parents. Essentially, case workers talk to first time mothers prior to giving birth, and they have the option of having a social worker assigned to them, doing home visits, giving them advice, resources and the like. This can go on for a few years (I think they get passed on after 3 years, but I could be wrong about that).

Despite what our local conservative radio host, Lars Larson (who I normally agree with), says, it is 100% voluntary. This program cannot assign a social worker to someone without consent.

Obviously, some families want support, some don't, and sometimes, the mother wants support, and the father doesn't.

Obviously, if my wife is at a home, and she sees something wrong, she has to take corrective action, and this is something that parents are informed of.

Usually she can just explain what the problem is, and ask for it to be corrected. But there have been days where there was something more serious that happened, as in physical abuse. In those cases she is required to contact CPS. That is probably the hardest thing for her, and I can always tell when something like that happens, because she comes home in tears.

I am always concerned for her safety when she is out, since she is out in a rural community, where there is a high level of Meth use. While many of the people in her agency have CHLs, they are prohibited from carrying into a client's house, and they can't carry on work property either.

I am hoping that at some point she will get her CHL, and just pocket carry a P3AT or something.

I.G.B.

 

[SteveS]

I perused my agency's policy manual and it was clear that no weapons are allowed at work. No guns, knives, batons, pepper spray, mace, etc...no nothing. I also found the policy on violence. Basically, if you are "violent" at work or off duty, you can be fired. This makes sense. If I were to be arrested for battery while not at work, this certainly decreases confidence in me by my employer and I deserved to be fired.

I then read about what is considered a violent act. One of the acts was carrying or displying a weapon. Based upon this rule, I could be fired for lawfully carrying a weapon while I am not at work. As far as I know, there is no effort to root out employees that CCW, but I am bothered that this is even in the manual. Obviously, someone thought this was something that people shouldn't be able to do at work and off-site.

 

[itgoesboom]

Steve,

That sucks.

One of the many reason why I love where I work is because I have actually been encouraged to carry while here.

There are only two people that know, the owner of the company, and myself, and I know that he keeps a couple of revolvers here too.

I.G.B.

 

[p35]

My mother has worked for Washington State CPS for some 20 years.
I remember once taking her out to dinner on her birthday. In the middle of it, she got a call to some situation where LE needed help (a lot of their calls originate with LE either finding a bad situation or arresting a parent). When she got back, I took her out for dessert, and spent a good part of it explaining that if it looks like someone's going to start shooting, you hide behind the engine block, not the back wheel . Of course, with a bunch of deputies there, her job was to hide, not join in on the excitement.

The woman who got injured put out the word that, instead of flowers, they should put any money they would have spent toward gifts for kids in foster care. I guess there's some cards being sent to the deputy by social workers around the state as well.

I've represented a lot of parents whose kids are in State custody, usually because of drug addiction. Sometimes they get it together, sometimes they don't. Some are just mentally incapable of taking care of themselves, let alone someone else. While CPS sometimes does jump into cases they shouldn't, I see a lot more cases where they ought to get involved and don't.

I have also seen social workers spend huge amounts of unpaid overtime trying to help a parent who is honestly trying to get their act together. I had one father who had PTSD from the first Gulf War. He was living in a travel trailer, drinking a lot, and not holding a job. His ex (who had custody) got sent to prison for embezzling from charities, and the kids ended up in foster care. The SW and I got him into a VA program for PTSD, which got him off the sauce and started dealing with the real problems. She helped him find a job and a house, and helped him get used but clean furniture for it. The kids moved in with him, and now they're all doing great. CPS is out of their lives.

While I complain constantly about social workers, most of them are really committed to helping kids. Thankless job, too, but someone has to do it. I couldn't.

 

[TallPine]

Well, I heard of an instance (directly from the parent involved) of a CPS agent that said that dirty dishes in the sink after 9am constituted child abuse

 

[Derius_T]

As far as the guy getting shot, kind of stupid on his part. I mean, there are probably other circumstances, but in this instance, his children most likely were not being taken care of properly, (only people involved really know) and someone had to get involved.

As for me, I am poor, but have a decent house, water, electric, food, clothes, ect. and my kids are diciplined, but not abused. They have all they NEED to survive, but maybe not all they WANT.

In my case, I believe I am a very good parent, and if someone tried to take away my children, I think it would involve serious violence against them.

For the MOST part CPS is a good thing, and they help alot. But there are instances where fresh out of school young CPS workers, who have no children, make snap judgements, and abuse their power. A relative of mine was involved in a case years ago, and was told that CPS answered to NO ONE, when it came to their descisions, that their power was unchallenged, and absolute. They have no higher governing authority, and no one will touch complaints agaist them. That being said, that type of power can cause corruption.

The relative in question, her and her son were sitting on the couch watching cartoons and playing. The boy was about 4. As they were laughing and playing, boy started jumping, as boys often do, and before she could grab him, fell off the couch. He seemed really hurt, so she immediately took him to family doctor. Family doctor took xrays of his arm, said bruised but no probs, and set her home. Next day, arm was worse, she called doctor, got no call back, so took him to a very well known hospital for children. It turns out on examination in the ER that arm has hairline fracture. Now this hospital has an 'in house team' of social workers, who quickly swarmed all over my relative, and the SHTF. To make it short, she was acused of abuse, this team got together and consulted another doctor, over the phone, and he agreed without ever seeing child that it sounded like abuse, so they came to take the child away. Even though original ER doc said it was not an injury consistent with abuse. My relative tried to explain, and begged them to call the original doctor that she had seen, and that knew the child since birth, and was snottily told they didn't NEED any further evidence, and were taking the child. She had to call another relative, who had to ask for temporary custody, so child would not be put in foster care. They hounded her for months. At her job, at home, made her submit to lie detector tests, ect. She was even told by a worker that if she complied and just admitted abuse that she could have kid back, otherwise she would never see him again. EVENTUALLY, after months of harassment, child was returned, and case was closed due to lack of evidence. BUT STILL, on her PERMANENT RECORD, is a statement about being investigated for child abuse, unsubstantiated.....

So it DOES happen......to really good people, more than you know....

 

[SteveS]

A relative of mine was involved in a case years ago, and was told that CPS answered to NO ONE, when it came to their descisions, that their power was unchallenged, and absolute. They have no higher governing authority, and no one will touch complaints agaist them. That being said, that type of power can cause corruption.

I agree. Fortunately, in my experience, this is not true (at least in MI). CPS can remove children, but the case has to go in front of a judge within a very short period of time. If their isn't any evidence, case dismissed, no matter how much the worker wants to take the kid. Besides having to answer to the court there are citizen foster care review boards that offer additional oversight, along with Children's Ombudsman.

So it DOES happen......to really good people, more than you know....

Yes, it does happen. I can think of several cases and I am sure that newspapers pick them up, certainly much more than the average case of abuse. Despite this, I still believe that CPS errs more on the side of not removing when they should.

I worked with a father that was trying to get custody of his daughter and was unable to afford a lawyer. He attempted to file his own papers and motions, and not being familiar with the syatem, was mostly unsuccessful. His main concern was that the mother (and daughter) lived in a crack house. He took me by the house and introduced me to sveral neighbors that backed up his claim. He filed a complaint with CPS and heard back from them two weeks later, when they told him that the environment she was being raised in was "acceptable."