romulus
Member
Sounds like everyone here is looking for a good reason to vote away their gun rights, which is exactly what will happen with a Dem Prez and a Dem Congress...
Cheers everybody
Cheers everybody
Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection
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longeyes
member
Let's face it, our gun rights are not at the whim of any party, at the whim of a majority. I think most of us here are agreed on that.
I for one have no intention of dismembering my country by voting for Bush because he MIGHT allow me to hang on to a .22 or a single-shot shotgun to protect my house. Our right to self-protection is not negotiable. Molon labe!
I for one have no intention of dismembering my country by voting for Bush because he MIGHT allow me to hang on to a .22 or a single-shot shotgun to protect my house. Our right to self-protection is not negotiable. Molon labe!
spartacus2002
Member
AFter the 89 Import Ban, GW's comments regarding the AWB, the Prescription drug bill, and this, I think it's pretty obvious the Republicans believe they can lie to us with impunity -- and believe we will keep voting Republican because we either can't believe we're being lied to, or we accept utter defeat on Issue A because we support their position on Issue B.
Gun-owning, anti-illegal-immigration, border-protecting, limited-govt Americans who vote Republican are like abused spouses -- we just keep on believing that they really love us, and that to leave them would be disloyalty.
Gun-owning, anti-illegal-immigration, border-protecting, limited-govt Americans who vote Republican are like abused spouses -- we just keep on believing that they really love us, and that to leave them would be disloyalty.
romulus
Member
Actually there's no such illusion on my part. But I feel certain that a Dean victory will embolden the antis and then you can kiss goodbye even your favorite Romanian .22
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Ka-Bing!
If someone ran on the "I'll make the Southern border one giant minefield and expell all the illegals"-Platform, I'd vote for him with a smile, but thats not gonna happen any time soon.
I'd really like to vote for W, but I might have to go Libertarian in this election.
I'll probably make up my mind on 9/14/03: No AW renewal = vote for W, AW renewal = vote for Libertarian. I might have to fill in the scantron sheet with a little regret due to W's campaign finance and immigration decisions, but 4 years of hardcore liberal rule might not be so good at this point in time.
Kharn
I'd really like to vote for W, but I might have to go Libertarian in this election.
I'll probably make up my mind on 9/14/03: No AW renewal = vote for W, AW renewal = vote for Libertarian. I might have to fill in the scantron sheet with a little regret due to W's campaign finance and immigration decisions, but 4 years of hardcore liberal rule might not be so good at this point in time.
Kharn
brookstexas
member
It's simple really
follow the monet trail. Every decision Shrub makes is of benefirt to big business, Halliburton, Clear Channel Radio , companies that want cheap labor, drug companies etc.
follow the monet trail. Every decision Shrub makes is of benefirt to big business, Halliburton, Clear Channel Radio , companies that want cheap labor, drug companies etc.
oldfart
Member
This being a gun related forum, we naturally worry about gun rights more than other things. We like to tell ourselves things like "The 2nd insures all the others."
I don't know who I'm going to vote for in '04, but it sure won't be Bush. He's gone on record as supporting the AWB. He brought us the Patriot Act, Patriot II, Campaign Finance Reform and now he wants to reward a bunch of lawbreakers. Why not out let all the guys who're in prison for firearms related offences? How about the people who tried to shave a few bucks off their taxes? I'm sure they'd be willing to vote for him if they could just get to a poll.
I've raised a few kids in my life, some mine and some who were turned over to me by their parents. The one thing I learned above all else: Don't reward bad behavior!! If they broke the rules, they paid the price.
Bush has taken on some of the worse aspects of those kids. He has acted badly on a number of occasions by trashing one part of the Constitution after another. He has shown himself to be no different than Al Gore in what he wants to accomplish. Gore might have done it more quickly and with less finesse, but we'd still be bent over the barrel.
Our gun rights will go only as fast as we let go of our guns. Congress can pass all the laws it wants and as long as we-- that's all of us, including the ones with good jobs and nice homes and cars-- as long as we refuse to abide by those laws-- they will be ineffectual. It will make not a whit of difference whether the occupant of the White House has a 'D' or an 'R' by his/her name or whether Congress is predominately one party or the other, in the end, they'll still vote to take your "gun righs." It's up to us to keep 'em.
I don't know who I'm going to vote for in '04, but it sure won't be Bush. He's gone on record as supporting the AWB. He brought us the Patriot Act, Patriot II, Campaign Finance Reform and now he wants to reward a bunch of lawbreakers. Why not out let all the guys who're in prison for firearms related offences? How about the people who tried to shave a few bucks off their taxes? I'm sure they'd be willing to vote for him if they could just get to a poll.
I've raised a few kids in my life, some mine and some who were turned over to me by their parents. The one thing I learned above all else: Don't reward bad behavior!! If they broke the rules, they paid the price.
Bush has taken on some of the worse aspects of those kids. He has acted badly on a number of occasions by trashing one part of the Constitution after another. He has shown himself to be no different than Al Gore in what he wants to accomplish. Gore might have done it more quickly and with less finesse, but we'd still be bent over the barrel.
Our gun rights will go only as fast as we let go of our guns. Congress can pass all the laws it wants and as long as we-- that's all of us, including the ones with good jobs and nice homes and cars-- as long as we refuse to abide by those laws-- they will be ineffectual. It will make not a whit of difference whether the occupant of the White House has a 'D' or an 'R' by his/her name or whether Congress is predominately one party or the other, in the end, they'll still vote to take your "gun righs." It's up to us to keep 'em.
Selfdfenz
Member
Romulus wrote,
"Actually there's no such illusion on my part. But I feel certain that a Dean victory will embolden the antis and then you can kiss goodbye even your favorite Romanian .22"
With Bush stating even before the last election, and during his term in office he supports the AWB, gun control is a none issue for the peps that support Dean. Dean and Bush are their men in this issue. Conress is holding the line on the 2nd at this time not Bush. The antis should take heart they have a gun-banner in the White House now!
Anyone that thinks this president is pro-2A and will go to the mat over the 2nd is just not listening the the very words he speaks and the actions he takes.
IMHO, no flame intended romulus
S-
"Actually there's no such illusion on my part. But I feel certain that a Dean victory will embolden the antis and then you can kiss goodbye even your favorite Romanian .22"
With Bush stating even before the last election, and during his term in office he supports the AWB, gun control is a none issue for the peps that support Dean. Dean and Bush are their men in this issue. Conress is holding the line on the 2nd at this time not Bush. The antis should take heart they have a gun-banner in the White House now!
Anyone that thinks this president is pro-2A and will go to the mat over the 2nd is just not listening the the very words he speaks and the actions he takes.
IMHO, no flame intended romulus
S-
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/bush.immigration/index.html
But wait! Teddy likes this...
"I certainly hope the administration's long-awaited re-involvement in this fundamental debate is genuine, and not because of election year conversion," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy said in a statement Tuesday. "The immigration status quo is out-dated, unjust and unacceptable."
If Ted Kennedy supports this – it must be good.
Bush has lost my vote.
But wait! Teddy likes this...
"I certainly hope the administration's long-awaited re-involvement in this fundamental debate is genuine, and not because of election year conversion," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy said in a statement Tuesday. "The immigration status quo is out-dated, unjust and unacceptable."
If Ted Kennedy supports this – it must be good.
Bush has lost my vote.
longeyes
member
If Bush cannot comprehend the moral, social, cultural, fiscal, and legal liabilities surrounding his "solution" to the illegal alien problem in this country, it is rather unlikely he can comprehend the importance of the Second Amendment.
What he comprehends is what Karl Rove wants him to comprehend: VOTES. And I'm sure the two of them have already run the numbers on how many "rabid" gun owners can be safely ignored, written off as Bush has already apparently written off conservatives in general.
If Tom Tancredo ran for President he might pull enough votes to cost Bush this Election. I must say that would poetic justice given the fact that Rove told Tancredo to "never darkne the door of the White House again" because of his stance on illegal immigration.
What he comprehends is what Karl Rove wants him to comprehend: VOTES. And I'm sure the two of them have already run the numbers on how many "rabid" gun owners can be safely ignored, written off as Bush has already apparently written off conservatives in general.
If Tom Tancredo ran for President he might pull enough votes to cost Bush this Election. I must say that would poetic justice given the fact that Rove told Tancredo to "never darkne the door of the White House again" because of his stance on illegal immigration.
spartacus2002
Member
There is only one fix to this mess:
WRITE YOUR F***ing POLITICIANS
Write your congressman, your senators, The WHite House, and The Republican Natl Committee. Tell them you think this idea stinks, why you think it stinks, that GW has lost your vote, and oh by the way, all your friends feel the same way and they vote too.
The only thing hte politicians care about is which side of an issue is the winning issue. IF they hear an uproar against this, most will choose to side with the uproar (with the exception of the hardline ideologues).
Write, write, write.
Oh, and even if he isn't your congressman, write Tancredo a letter of support.
WRITE YOUR F***ing POLITICIANS
Write your congressman, your senators, The WHite House, and The Republican Natl Committee. Tell them you think this idea stinks, why you think it stinks, that GW has lost your vote, and oh by the way, all your friends feel the same way and they vote too.
The only thing hte politicians care about is which side of an issue is the winning issue. IF they hear an uproar against this, most will choose to side with the uproar (with the exception of the hardline ideologues).
Write, write, write.
Oh, and even if he isn't your congressman, write Tancredo a letter of support.
WilderBill
Member
Thank you Sparticus.
If you can't wait for snail mail:
[email protected]
For my part, I think the money that I might have sent to the RNC will have to go to the GOA and Ranch Rescue.
Write those congress critters!
If you can't wait for snail mail:
[email protected]
For my part, I think the money that I might have sent to the RNC will have to go to the GOA and Ranch Rescue.
Write those congress critters!
romulus
Member
No flame taken Seldfenz...
I haven't seen Bush use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to rail against "all those guns on the street" and "cop-killer bullets" and "rifles whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people" a la Clinton. Dean or Clark (let's not take for granted that Dean will be the nominee) will do so, just like ole Bill. I can see Dean, "I'm a physician, and let me tell you the CDC is right when it says guns are a public health issue!"
There will then be some Republican opposition in Congress, but the Presidency usually succedes in ramming through these things with their allies in the press whipping the antis into their typical frenzies.
Gun control is a sleeping dog now, but they will kick that dog awake with a Democrat in the White House. I just don't see that happening with Bush. With Dean (and surely Clark) it will be 1994 all over again...
I haven't seen Bush use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to rail against "all those guns on the street" and "cop-killer bullets" and "rifles whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people" a la Clinton. Dean or Clark (let's not take for granted that Dean will be the nominee) will do so, just like ole Bill. I can see Dean, "I'm a physician, and let me tell you the CDC is right when it says guns are a public health issue!"
There will then be some Republican opposition in Congress, but the Presidency usually succedes in ramming through these things with their allies in the press whipping the antis into their typical frenzies.
Gun control is a sleeping dog now, but they will kick that dog awake with a Democrat in the White House. I just don't see that happening with Bush. With Dean (and surely Clark) it will be 1994 all over again...
Bush must just be pandering to the Latinos and others in an election year.
It is hard to believe that Bush and Co. have read the political tea leaves so erroneously. Every poll I have seen on immigration, especially illegal immigration, is 80% plus against.
Maybe Bush assumes this new policy will never get implemented. Scary part is supposedly the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill embraces the plan.
RNC head Gillespie says they are planning on another tight Presidential election in 2004. Now I can see why. Prior to this immigration announcement, all the pundits were saying Bush would win in landslide. But, maybe not now.
It is hard to believe that Bush and Co. have read the political tea leaves so erroneously. Every poll I have seen on immigration, especially illegal immigration, is 80% plus against.
Maybe Bush assumes this new policy will never get implemented. Scary part is supposedly the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill embraces the plan.
RNC head Gillespie says they are planning on another tight Presidential election in 2004. Now I can see why. Prior to this immigration announcement, all the pundits were saying Bush would win in landslide. But, maybe not now.
fix
Member
He also (supposedly) thought the USSC would rule CFR unconstitutional and look what that got us. He's also betting that conservatives will adopt the "where ya gonna go?" attitude. I'm afraid that's gonna send him back to Texas prematurely.
spartacus2002
Member
Again: Write, Fax, Email, and call your representatives, senators, The White House, and the RNC.
Write letters to the editor of your newspaper.
Call in to talk radio shows.
But most of all, don't be racist about it. This is not about how many people from ________(Fill in the blank) are here. It is about respect for the law and preserving our system of law, our economy, and our resources. America is not a lifeboat with infinite capacity, with room for all 6 billion people. We WILL sink if we open the doors to everyone from everywhere.
Write letters to the editor of your newspaper.
Call in to talk radio shows.
But most of all, don't be racist about it. This is not about how many people from ________(Fill in the blank) are here. It is about respect for the law and preserving our system of law, our economy, and our resources. America is not a lifeboat with infinite capacity, with room for all 6 billion people. We WILL sink if we open the doors to everyone from everywhere.
You might add in your letters that the Bush immigration policy is basically an open admission that we have little control over our borders, and over those who successfully jump our borders.
And, what are the implications of that lack of effective control on the War on Terrorism, and the War on Drugs which we apparently are loosing?
One of the first duties of the Federal Government is to protect our borders, our people and our way of life. Those duties do not include having a job fair for illegal aliens.
And, what are the implications of that lack of effective control on the War on Terrorism, and the War on Drugs which we apparently are loosing?
One of the first duties of the Federal Government is to protect our borders, our people and our way of life. Those duties do not include having a job fair for illegal aliens.
longeyes
member
"You might add in your letters that the Bush immigration policy is basically an open
admission that we have little control over our borders, and over those who
successfully jump our borders.
And, what are the implications of that lack of effective control on the War on
Terrorism, and the War on Drugs which we apparently are losing?"
_________________________________
I think we have too little control of ourselves, a lack of clarity about who we are, what is essential to protect, what kind of world we live in, and what we have to do--and Bush exemplifies that. We are in a time in our history where Bush's oft-repeated appeal to "compassion" is a luxury we can't afford. I voted for Bush in the hope that he would bring some steel to our spirit. Now I see he is just another appeaser obedient to political expediency.
admission that we have little control over our borders, and over those who
successfully jump our borders.
And, what are the implications of that lack of effective control on the War on
Terrorism, and the War on Drugs which we apparently are losing?"
_________________________________
I think we have too little control of ourselves, a lack of clarity about who we are, what is essential to protect, what kind of world we live in, and what we have to do--and Bush exemplifies that. We are in a time in our history where Bush's oft-repeated appeal to "compassion" is a luxury we can't afford. I voted for Bush in the hope that he would bring some steel to our spirit. Now I see he is just another appeaser obedient to political expediency.
The small city I live in (pop ~30,000) is home to the worlds largest beef packing plant. According to the local news editor we are a diverse population and we like it.
I have seen what the influx of illegal aliens does to the school systems, law enforcement , judicial systems and public services (welfare).
Not all these people are from Mexico, they come from South America via Mexico. I have respect for a hard working person trying to support a family but have none at all for people who are only here to exploit the system, show no pride or respect for the community and have no plan on staying and becoming a productive citizen.
I hear the claim "But they do pay taxes". Yes, but only the ones they can't avoid. Savvy illegals will use a false S/S number, claim the maximum number of dependants then not file state or federal income tax.
I have good health insurance but every time I go to the doctors office it costs me $20-50 in co-payments. As I'm writing out the check I see other people throw down a county health card, pay nothing then watch them in the parking lot getting into a $20,000 pickup truck with another $5000 worth of wheels tires and fiberglass accessories bolted on to it.
I've seen people at the grocery store with two shopping carts, one cart full of food-stamp eligible items the other cart full of stuff that's not. The second cart and a hand full of lottery tickets gets paid for with cash.
Again, I don't want to appear to be bigoted or racist, I don't care what country of origin or skin color these people are, if they're taking advantage of what this country has to offer with no intention of giving back then they don't need to be here.
Selfdfenz
Member
Spartacus,
I wrote all of my reps (state and fed) regarding the legalization of illegals 2 weeks before Christmas.
I'm still waiting for a response.
I will not surprise me if I never get a reply given that this is Texas, and most of the crew support Bush, at least with their silence.
S-
I wrote all of my reps (state and fed) regarding the legalization of illegals 2 weeks before Christmas.
I'm still waiting for a response.
I will not surprise me if I never get a reply given that this is Texas, and most of the crew support Bush, at least with their silence.
S-
I would be OK with a program that requires that applicants apply from outside of the U.S. for jobs that have gone unfilled for a set period of time when properly posted. The employer would pay for the expenses involved in verifying that the person is not a felon, or terrorist and would agree to provide all medical expenses associated with the worker. The worker would need to exit the U.S. and go through the normal channels for any other immigration status leading to a green card. The flip side of the bill would provide the money for local/state police to go after illegal immigrants. Appeal would be severely limited.
Congress will tread with care in that the outcry will be great, but industry will grease the skids with lots of money. This should be interesting. Enough money should buy public opinion...
This century will see more mosques than churches in France and English as the world's universal language....except within the United States where we will produce all government documents in forty languages..including English..I think.
Congress will tread with care in that the outcry will be great, but industry will grease the skids with lots of money. This should be interesting. Enough money should buy public opinion...
This century will see more mosques than churches in France and English as the world's universal language....except within the United States where we will produce all government documents in forty languages..including English..I think.
longeyes
member
peace in our times
This will be the century in which America goes from being a nation to a concept, like "cool," or "The Enlightenment," that will be broadcast on a 24-hour satellite station for general inspiration. What is now the physical United States will be a combination of a Club Med and Starbucks, where people of the Global Oneness will come and get a pause that refreshes before returning to their New World Order workstations in the various international "markets." The world language will be orgasmic grunts and, of course, 1s and 0s run through that International ID-cum-transaction card that will be issued to the world's indefatigable shoppers.
A few cowboys and barbarians will have left for Mars, on a one-way trip. No one will miss them.
This will be the century in which America goes from being a nation to a concept, like "cool," or "The Enlightenment," that will be broadcast on a 24-hour satellite station for general inspiration. What is now the physical United States will be a combination of a Club Med and Starbucks, where people of the Global Oneness will come and get a pause that refreshes before returning to their New World Order workstations in the various international "markets." The world language will be orgasmic grunts and, of course, 1s and 0s run through that International ID-cum-transaction card that will be issued to the world's indefatigable shoppers.
A few cowboys and barbarians will have left for Mars, on a one-way trip. No one will miss them.
I wonder what this means?
Below is the CCN web-site that reports something interesting. We have a reviving economy, but so far it has created few new jobs. Economists were projecting 148,000 new jobs would be created in December, but only 1,000 new jobs were reported.
Maybe those new jobs are being outsourced overseas, or being taken up by illegal aliens and not being reported for obvious reasons.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/09/news/economy/jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes
It is interesting that during the 2000-2002 time period when the economy slowed down quite a bit, illegal immigration rates grew extensively. One conclusion is that the illegal aliens did not come to the USA looking for jobs.
Below is the CCN web-site that reports something interesting. We have a reviving economy, but so far it has created few new jobs. Economists were projecting 148,000 new jobs would be created in December, but only 1,000 new jobs were reported.
Maybe those new jobs are being outsourced overseas, or being taken up by illegal aliens and not being reported for obvious reasons.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/09/news/economy/jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes
It is interesting that during the 2000-2002 time period when the economy slowed down quite a bit, illegal immigration rates grew extensively. One conclusion is that the illegal aliens did not come to the USA looking for jobs.
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