Massad Ayoob- magazine articles...

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Safety First

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Does everyone else enjoy reading his articles as much as I do? It seems everything I have read by him is written with quite a lot of thought,knowledge and experience. Once I start reading one of his articles it is hard to put the magazine down. So I just wanted to know if most of the High Road folks find his writings as insightful as I do??
 
I find much of his magazine writing to be self-serving and condesending. He only gives you enough information about his cited "cases" to support his opinion. He writes about court cases that are a matter of public record as though they're Top Secret. If "Case One" will prove his point about something, why won't he properly cite the pertinent case law?

I know a couple of people that have taken some of his LFI courses. All have high praise for the information he gives in those courses. I also found his book "In the Gravest Extreme" to be excellent. His writings in the gunrags don't get it done for me though.




Edited to remove my mistaken opinion.:eek:
 
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Mas is a good man, great writer, and dedicated public servant. Be sure and follow up what you read in his articles by researching your state's laws, training to maintain/improve your skill level, and having a good attorney to call should you ever need to defend yourself. The money many of us might spend on a new gun might be better saved for the day we need an attorney just as bad as we needed a gun we already had.
 
Howdy Howdy, I enjoy his writing in the gun rags. He is one that has "been there done that"
Like alot that is writtin for mags etc. Use your own judgment bout it, but he is a good honest fellow in my book.
 
Blades67, I asked Mas about this last August, when I did LFI-2 and -3 with him. He says he never identifies cases by state, defendant's names, etc. because most of them are still very traumatic memories to those involved. They usually pertain to violent death or assault, and those involved often want to forget about them. Another factor is that many of those involved suffer social isolation because of their successful use of a firearm in self-defence. After the case is over, many move to new communities where their "past" is not widely known. To publicize their names might jeopardize the new lives they've built in different communities. For these reasons, he doesn't publish information that could identify those involved, except when they give permission for him to do so. Sounds reasonable to me...
 
One reason I look forward to buying "Combat Handguns" is to read his articles. I have never met Mr. Ayoob but, he sounds like a nice guy with much experience.
 
Like anyone else, you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I generally like what he writes, but I do wonder about some of the cases he writes about.

Also - he is one of the big "single action triggers will put you in jail" promoters. He pretty much says go DAO so they can't say you had a hair trigger, etc.

I think that you cannot consider that in a vacuum and while drawing a gun is rare enough, shooting and hitting someone is rarer - then to be rung up on charges for your trigger seems... unlikely.

He is a learned man though - it takes an intelligent person to keep listening to someone they have serious disagreements with to get to the good parts.

As my dad likes to say about the sermons on Sunday: "Eat the meat and leave the bones".
 
Ayoob is entertaining, but has a flair for dramatics. Remember the thingee he wrote on being ready for home defense, where he was decked out like he was en route to defend the Alamo? I hope it was tongue-in-cheek, although I'm sure that many readers took him literally. I think it was called, "Be Roll-Out Ready!".

I also got a kick out of his comment about "the South American work ethic" at Taurus generating high quality.

But he is more honest about discussing some guns than are other writers.

Lone Star
 
He is probably one of the only ones since the old crop, Askins, Keith, Skelton stopped writing that still produces what passes for a decent article. I don't agree with everything he says but he does a good job of articulating his opinion and I understand his classes are among the best.
 
Trained with him, socialized with him. I'll take him standing next to me when the chips are down. Remember that most of his articles are geared to the "buy gun for self defense then put it away" crowd. Some are slanted toward the knowledgeable gun owner who trains regularly. Writing is his main livelyhood at has to accomodate all levels of readers. He also states that he writes to be overly cautious on purpose. Not all readers are skilled.
 
I enjoy his stuff. I bought "In the Gravest Extreme" along with the "VA Gun Owner's Guide" just after I bought my first handgun and took my CCW class.

As noted, he writes for all levels of gun owners and isn't going to be as pertininet to expert level folks as for 'Joe Citizen'. I've found his advice on staying out of trouble (esp. on 'technicalities')to be useful. If nothing else, he's always good for 'food for thought'.
 
Pendragon, there are some parts of the country, and some cities, where the prosecutorial establishment does not believe that "just citizens" should own any guns at all, and generally believes that no shooting is self-defense.

It is these bad apples in the LE barrel who will use anything they can to get a murder conviction for your self-defense good-shoot. They will use the issue of a custom gun or handloaded ammo, not to mention attendance at a firearms training school.

I believe it is for these situations that Ayoob is cautious. Makes sense to me. It's that arena wherein there is more to fear from the law than from the crook. Sad situation.

Art
 
I really like some of the stuff he writes. But I really don't like when he promotes an STI racegun as a good SOCOM pistol alternative...
 
Kodak publishes two distinct lines of literature-amateur and professional. One reviewer noted that the amateur line is written in short simple words so as not to tire the lips of the target reader. Ayoob seems to have much the same split. Does his popular product reflect an accurate assessment of, or a contempt for, the targeted reader?
 
Huck, most any professional has to work with two vocabularies. It has nothing to do with "talking down to". It goes back to an ancient saying, "It is not your duty to understand me. It is my duty to make myself understood."

Would you start in with "ogive" and "sectional density" to one who has never done any shooting at all?

I'm retired from civil engineering, having worked in the dam and reservoir business. If we talked about the failures of some dams, would you understand me if I started in about "Swedish Slip Circle"? Or about such design characteristics as a "spillway with an ogee crest" or "Taintor gates"?

Whoever spouted off with "...short simple words so as not to tire the lips of the target reader." impresses me as probably an arrogant and ignorant twit. He certainly doesn't understand how one is to reach a non-professional audience.

In talking to a general lay audience, you use layman's terms as much as feasible.

:), Art
 
I look forward to his articles even if I don't particularly like it.

One thing for sure, he's definitely pro-gun for the lawful, and jail or worse for the the criminals.

He makes you think about situational self defense and this is a good thing. I just got "In the Gravest Extreme" for Xmas and can't wait to read it.
 
I like him, and that's good enough for me. When it comes to guns, gun writing, gun shooting, etc., I have yet to see a complete consensus from everyone on ANYTHING. He's not the best writer around, but he does a good job with his material, and who the heck is going to replace him?
DAL
 
Not a lot of training resources available here to civilians, so my wife and I are reading (incl. In The Gravest Extreme and The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, 5th Edition by M. A.) and viewing (Mail Order Video Lenny Magill Productions M. A. presents Shoot to Live, Gunfight Survival) in preparation for attending classes when we return to the States.

Of all of the writers and video talent so far, Mr. Ayoob seems to have the most real world applications and ideas. We especially appreciate the information about When, as well as How and Why, not just What.
 
The High Road

These are the most pleasurable, insightfull and logical posts I have read on the the subject of Mas Ayoob. I have battled those on other forums who have disparaged/insulted him without even meeting the man or training with him. They base their hatred on one or two articles they do not agree with and they of course are the true knowledgable gun gurus. My hats off to this forum and its members as it seems you have apparently truly taken "The High Road".
Al
 
Albert,
I think I know which story condemned Mas for the hardbitten crowd.
In "The Gravest Extreme"., he advocated tossing some money to some street people so he could walk unmolested. That comment disturbed the "Not a penny for tribute" group.
The man had worked for years in helping people retain their Rights and educated thousands. That's enough for me.
Just so everyone knows, I never met the guy, attended any of his classes and haven't read anything of his in years.
 
Okay ... I may step on somebody else's toes here, although I don't mean to ... but here's my answer to the question, along with some thoughts ...

Never met the man, so I can't comment one way or another on him as either a person, or a trainer, based upon personal knowledge ...

I have read much of what he writes. He IS a writer by trade, and is generally able to clearly articulate many points he wishes to make. Not a bad thing. I can read what he writes. I may question its validity or correctness ... but I can read it and understand what he's saying. Can that be said of all the other writers?

He does, indeed, write a lot of "fluff" articles. Even if you consider them so, anybody here NOT finished reading them?

Yeah, he does "water down" a lot of his material. Then again, he has no way of knowing who's reading his articles, and he probably writes to an "expected" standard of knowledge and competency that's been mutually agreed upon with the magazines, and his book publishers. They're still popular among a large spectrum of readers and shooters.

If I disagree with something he writes in one magazine, I often merely have to look for one of his contemporary articles in another magazine, and I'll occasionally be able to read an opposing view of something written in one article, in his own words in another article ... :rolleyes:

When it comes to relating useful information of a legal perspective, he's only the messenger, not the message ... his personal "spin" on something notwithstanding, although he generally distinguishes this sort of thing himself ... so I don't hold much of that either for, or against, him ... If it happened to someone in a court proceeding somewhere, it's useful to at least know about it, right?

While I naturally won't even remotely try to compare my firearms & shooting knowledge or experience to his ... I DO find many of his comments referencing aspects of the martial arts somewhat vague :scrutiny: and "interesting", but that's because I have more than 30+ years of experience in the arts ... He needs better technical advisors, or, maybe should simply listen to them better.

I've met many of his students. Not hard to do, as he has trained a LOT of folks in his courses. I've only met more Gunsite students than LFI students. That may say something about his popularity. I won't even begin to presume to evaluate a trainer based upon the demonstrated abilities of the trainer's students, if only because I'd prefer to be extended the same courtesy and benefit of the doubt. :D

There are often a lot of barbs and cheap shots taken at him regarding his Reserve L/E status, implying that since he's not doing it as a full-time career, he's somewhat less qualified to make some of the judgments and comments he does ... Well, there may be some merit to that.

On the other hand, part time Reserves that have a steady "outside" income, whether they're paid or not in their Reserve activities, are still subject to many of the same dangers to which full-time L/E are subjected ... Maybe not as often, granted, but none of the rest of us doing it full-time can predict which hour, or day, is going to be the most dangerous. They run the same risk. Besides, I've always had to wonder about the unpaid Reserves that subject themselves to the same risk of permanent injury or death that the rest of us face ... AND, at the risk of losing their "other" lives. (The glory hounds & thrill seekers notwithstanding. We've got those, too, in the full-time ranks). They often volunteer to do tasks for free that I would rather not do, even being paid. Makes me somewhat introspective ...

I can't recall him EVER printing anything derogatory about someone else in the fields he moves within ... general firearms-related literary, L/E firearms training & officer safety, and shooting sports/training. Can that be said of all the other writers & trainers?

His printed literary musings aren't that different than the thoughts and stories we all trade back and forth in the locker room and at our own ranges. ... Of course it's faster to draw a pocket weapon from your pocket if you already have your hand in the pocket and on the weapon's grip ... Of course it's more "flattering" to throw out the worst 2 of 5 shots fired for accuracy ... Of course it's more difficult to conceal a N-frame .44 Magnum under an untucked shirt tail on a safari in Africa ... Of course it's better to have custom tuned revolvers and pistols, versus "stock" models, in some situations ... Of course many of the currently produced pistols and revolvers are functional without any custom modifications ... Of course it's better to have access to defensive weapons when you're traveling, and have one loaned to you for official purposes upon your arrival ... Of course it's entertaining to read about someone knowing many of the people that are "legends" of our firearms age, and passing on interesting trivia and tidbits gained over a dinner table ... Of course a long photographer's vest with multiple pockets conceals handguns better than a t-shirt ... Of course there are many ways to draw from concealment, and some of them require the use of 2 hands ... Of course there are prosecutors and defense attorneys that apparently slept through most of their classes in law school ... Of course colder temperatures make it harder to shoot well when you're testing a new weapon ... Of course there are always things to learn in other schools and shooting academies, and we all have bad days ... and we can entertainingly go on & on, just as we could with our own musings in our own little groups. He just gets paid to talk about it. :neener:

I'd like to meet him someday, just to meet him ... and visit over some coffee, if he's a coffee drinking man ...
 
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