My First and Probably Last Post: An Open Letter

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As the capitol of California, San Francisco
Sacramento is the capital of California, although one could maintain that San Francisco is a social/cultural "capital".

I realized that I had made the mistake after posting that I had the capitol wrong. My bad!:banghead:

San Francisco and Los Angles are the 'cultural centers'. Both decadent. L.A more so then S.F.
 
I don't see what good locking this thread would do to us politically. She would most likely report back to her superiors and say that we "civil libertarians" don't really respect freedom of speech either.

Soon or later people will start getting out of hand or off topic is what I am refering to.
 
Rachen do you know something we don't? Do you know this person? Methinks you might be taking this just a tad too seriously.

I was just trying not to come to conclusions to quickly, because in her post, she made a reference that she would be labeled as a troll very quickly. Evidently, she thinks very negatively of us. We should be proving her wrong.
 
Good reading just the same.

I fear those who wish to take away my ability to defend myself or my family. I fear those who wish to curtail my previously unalienable rights. I fear those who would, in the past, be called busy-bodies that strive for power to effect their notion of right and wrong; thereby, forcing their will upon those who wish it not.

I do thank the founders for providing a constitutional republic instead of a democracy. In a democracy, 50.00001% would rule leaving those legions (We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo. ) possibly in charge.

Does Riy possibly understand that she is disparaging the people in this forum?
 
Soon or later people will start getting out of hand or off topic is what I am refering to.

We will all participate, and we will all monitor each others' actions. If someone gets out of line, the moderators can do something with the offending post. Otherwise, lets all keep it high road. A constant reminder.
 
Evidently, she thinks very negatively of us. We should be proving her wrong.

The problem is, if she's already made her mind up, there's not a damned thing any of us can say that's going to change her mind.

Also, don't discount the possibility that she really is trolling, and knows it.



J.C.
 
Sounds like someone that wants to wallow in her self pity. The fact that she doesn't even morn her father's passing is a shame. The people on here from what I've seen aren't in some elite moral class but neither is she. Why even post such a thing if you aren't going to dialogue with those whom you have gotten the attention of?
 
This is a cowardly approach, showing that you prefer to come here and give us a sermon rather than engage in a constructive dialogue.

Etc.

Having read this:

My First and Probably Last Post: An Open Letter

Followed by this:

In fact, my heritage is in large part the reason that I find myself here at all (at least until the inevitable point that I am branded a troll and rendered persona non grata) .

Leads me to the belief that she thinks that she will be banned for her post, not that she won't try to return.
 
She also made reference to this being her last post. How are we supposed to prove anything to her?

She has lurked here for more than a year. Of course, this may be her last post, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't be viewing the thread's progression without participating in the discourse. She's probably reading this thread while we are talking.
 
Riy,

Welcome to THR. I am truly happy that as an American you and I both have the opportunity to express our views openly and freely.

I am also grateful that you have had an opportunity to vent some deeply felt feelings about your father. I have read what you have had to say and I am truly sorry that your mother, sister and you had to endure whatever it was you had to endure. There is nothing that I can say that will blot out those memories. I spent 7 years in law enforcement when I was young, so I have had first hand experience with the dark side of human nature. I have seen horrors that defy description. Those were horrors perpetrated by people. Sometimes they used tools. Other times whatever was available, even just the power of the force of will or size or age.

My gut feeling is that you found out, as you say you did, that your father was a known and liked member of this fraternity of arms. I think perhaps you are lashing out as us as a surrogate because of the anger and sorrow you carry around with you because of his abhorrent behavior. You are unable to punish him for what he has done so you lash out at us. I can accept that and hope that in some way your opportunity here today has brought you some peace of mind and spirit and soul.

Let me apologize for some of our members for not understanding your anger and deeply held sorrow. We get lashed pretty often and it hurts us to be generalized about because we happen to enjoy the myriad uses for and of firearms. Because I own a hammer, it does not make me a carpenter. Because I own firearms does not make me an abuser or a criminal. But then, you understand that, don't you.

You have also mentioned that you have a fine husband, great kids and a good marriage. You have worked hard at educating yourself, found a worthy profession and have grasped the opportunity that America affords you. I would say that you have overcome deep adversity and pain in your life and not allowed it to stand in the way of a good, productive and happy life.

So again I say that I am glad that you have had the opportunity to be able to empty a dark area of you life into this fine forum of many fine people such as yourself. I pray that your ability to purge your dark feelings here has unburdened your soul and that you have taken another step away from the pain of your past.

God bless you and yours.

grampster
 
I see someone without conviction enough to defend her life and her rights and the lives of those she cares for. That's why pro-rights people refer to them as sheep.

She demonstrates that she does not have the conviction in her point of view to stay here and debate her position. Thus she retreats, as a sheep retreats from a predator.

Nothing more to see here. Moderators, please lock this thread.
 
This is great example of what I consider to be a "drive by". (My definition is a little different from that of the Management.) An anonymous self-important message that uses 1146 words to basically say "you suck", and then the poster is never seen nor heard from again.

BTW, I liked the comparison with the "Smug Alert" episode of South Park.
 
You are called sheep because sheep depend on others for protection. Gun owners has chosen to make their personal safety their own responsibility. Are you aware the police have no duty to protect you? Look up the case of Warren v. District of Columbia for more information. I will not put the lives of family in the hands of someone who is too far away, too out of shape, too apathetic, or too late to save them.

Your question about the environment reeks of ignorance. Pro-gun, pro-hinting groups such as Pheasants Forever and Ducks Unlimited are devoted to preserving the environments and habitats of the game they hunt. They encourage sound, science-based animal population control.

I've never heard of anyone against healthcare. Some people, Republicans and Democrats alike, are against universal healthcare because they see it as an extension of the welfare state. That is a discussion for another board as it has nothing to with guns, and gun owners are on both sides of that argument.
 
She's probably reading this thread while we are talking.


Or in other words, she just wanted to get a rise out of a pro-gun forum with her anti babble.

Exactly. She (or he) is probably laughing at all the "attention" he (or she) is getting. I say we let this thread die. Many good points have been provided and any further posts will probably not provide any new insights unless, of course, Riy decides to comment. Then, like a hot spot in a smoldering housefire, the thread will come alive again for a few pages only to die down again until she comes and fans the flames of his/her little internet arson escapade.
 
Or in other words, she just wanted to get a rise out of a pro-gun forum with her anti babble.

I agree too. She could be someone just like that. But still, getting all heated up and ranting about until this thread starts to resemble the original Mall Ninja threads won't do us any good either.
 
I just like reading the spectrum of responses...from some very well articulated responses to the more "home-grown" ones. I'm very much enjoying this thread:D
 
I believe the main reason the liberal protectionists bother us and you tolerate us is that YOU want to take from us and we are not wanting to take from you. Ya see those with spines really don't like those who want to take our stuff- whether it be freedoms,rights or material goods... we do not want,need or desire to be protected and do not want penalized unless we do actual unwarranted damage. We are tired of being restricted because we "might" hurt someone undeserving... that logic would have ya locked up because you are a hooker because ya have the needed tools to be so...


BTW I say delete the dribble- we don't need your journalistic assessment let alone one as biased and flawed in your logic as that is. Your personal pain has definitely kept that from being unbiased- so much for your professional journalism.
 
Well, I appreciate Riy's openness; like our own pro-gun bent, she's equally entitled to her viewpoint in not liking guns.

I don't like a lot of things, either (breakfast pancakes, for one - blergh). Thing is, lots of people do like pancakes at breakfast and I'm not one to force my preferences on others - they like them, I don't, and everything's cool with the world.

However, there are some who decide that their opinion should be forced onto others - there's a big difference between mere dislike of something and actively working against another person's freedom to choose. That's the only thing that would offend me - interfering with my right to decide for myself (and myself alone) - if I want to have something.

As for the contempt shown by pro-gun people towards antis, I believe it's a mere shadow of the invective hurled by the ignorant at decent, law-abiding people who are blamed for the actions of criminals simply because we use (and enjoy) the same tools which are misused by that segment of society.
 
This, my friends, is why we must tread lightly. In my younger years, which if you know me is quite young, I used to make fun of a certain person for being a Democrat. As I found out, he is more oriented towards liberty than I was at the time.
Of course, that was also when I considered myself a Republican.
You, Riy, have had a hard life. I have had a hard life as well, but one not propagated by any one person.
You recognize that firearms are a tool. You recognize that they cannot inflict harm without outside force, any more than an automobile or a baseball bat.
I thank you for that, and I thank the powers that be for giving you the ability to find truth even in a world clouded by unfiltered emotion.
You are a remarkable woman, I can tell that merely by your words and your courage to step into the lion pit, or so we might seem.
Why then, given the fact that "I" am capable of giving "you" that benefit; given the fact that I am able to objectively reason through the illogisms that struggle so hard to compel me to not only write you off, but also commit my considerable energy and resources to supporting, with pen and with pocketbook, the cause of those that would see your rights decimated and ground to shards... WHY THEN do you choose to disparage me and others of those like me?

Why do you call us sheep?

Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?

Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?

You see, there are many, many of us out here who all of you consider "antis' who are not at all. There are some of us who, were we to give in to the temptation to slip logic in kind at the butt of your own tendencies to do so, would have damn fine reason to be "antis", would be very good at it, and would represent a considerable benefit to the cause of your nemeses.

We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo.

So, the next time you feel like hurling wisdom at us, the next time your own brush feels heavy and wanting for a target, consider that there are a few of us who haven't yet decided which ring to throw our dogs in. And our dogs are big. And our dogs are hungry.

With regards,

A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.
I, unfortunately, cannot speak on the behalf of my comrades at THR. I cannot say why they may do what they do.
But many, many of us here will not say such unthinking and petty words, and that the owner of this forum, Oleg Volk, is one of them.
From Oleg Volk's thread "Changes at THR: LEGAL BOARD, READ BEFORE POSTING":
Oleg Volk said:
I'd like to reiterate the main mission goals of THR:

* Introduce new people to RKBA
* Support new shooters with information and encouragement
* Present a civil, peaceable and friendly image of gun owners to the world
* Organize actions to protect and expand our rights...
...Special care must be taken to ensure that we appear as reasonable and peaceable to the world as possible. Antis are sure to pluck even a rare example of uncivil, bigoted or Rambo conduct out of context and use against us. With that in mind, make sure that remedy of shooting anyone is only considered if all other legal options are exhausted. No more "feed the hogs!" or "from my cold dead hands!" If we ever come to that, the last thing you want is a discussion of tactics in an open forum, where the likely opposition can read and which they can use to justify bigger budgets and heavier armor.

Conduct becoming ladies and gentlemen is expected, without religious, national or other prejudices. That means no slurs on Californians, French, Muslims, cops, women or anyone else. If a particular group of people does something you dislike, let their actions speak for themselves. When debating, please avoid the typical logical fallacies common to debates at lesser forums. Remember that we should be more interested in a Socratic discourse, a search for the truth and a plan of action more than on winning the debates.

This forum is the extension of the company I wish to keep. Consider yourself invited by me personally and please do not abuse my hospitality by picking on other guests or by misusing the venue provided for discussions of topics specifically excluded from its brief, such as celebrity misbehaviors or non-RKBA politics.
I cannot speak for some people, and neither can Oleg. But we can speak for ourselves.
Welcome to THR.

P.S., I know you addressed us wanting to take you shooting, but perhaps you have seen shooting as a Judas.
I always found it very sad that the name "Judas" will forever mean "betrayer" because I found that it was an almost unequally beautiful name. So I have often wondered what would happen if a child today were named "Judas" and then went on to do great and good things in the future, forever redeeming the name for generations.
Shooting is your Judas. It represents your father and many, many things you have come to hate. When, or if, your father taught you to shoot, he probably gave you the biggest gun he could find and watched as you hurt yourself firing it. He, possibly, laughed when you hit yourself from the recoil. If he was the bully you say he was, and I have no reason to doubt you, then it was probably just another way to put himself into a superior position, just the same as those that other sociopaths use.
Allow someone to redeem shooting for you. Allow someone to take that concept, that has a scar on it from your father's heinous acts, and clean it. You may find something you truly enjoy.
 
OMG people.

She DIDN'T correlate her father's actions with gun owners in general. She indicated that to do so is tempting but would be illogical. She offered her background as an illustration. Then she went on to ask why, if she can exercise logic, others cannot when considering liberals, Californians etc. She is showing us how we look to people on the fence, and how it damages us.[/I]

I know what she is trying to sell us on. What I am telling you is that I am not buying in. It would be great to take her at her word, but her personal experiences have traumatized her. There is no way around that. And, you better believe it influences her views and feelings.

The undecided do nothing until you alienate them. Then they drop over to one side or the other. I think that's the point. You've met LOTS of people who were undecided at one point or another. The question is whether we, as gun owners, wish to push or pull people like the OP.[/I]

I don't think any of us are too stupid to understand what her threat was. Are you willing to grant her that all of us are the stereo type she proclaimed? And, are we forgeting that the anti-gun people have members that go too far too? What about the people they will push over to the right to bear arms side? Please don't accept the bag guys role so easily. There is two sided to this issue.

Let's not forget the wording at the the end either. Her dogs are hungry? What is that? Sounds like aggressive wording to me. Kind of like a threat. In order for one person to weild a threat for a group, don't they have to be a leader. A leader of say and organized group? Get where I was coming from now?

Suppressed anger perhaps?
 
Why are you judging me by what other people write here?

For every person who calls an anti a "sheep", for every person who bitches about California or the Bay Area, for every person who moans about "dimocrats" or "Billary" you'll find somebody else here who objects to that type of behavior. Don't judge me by what you read here, because I don't judge you.
 
"We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo."

Indeed, words are often mightier in thieir influence than mere bullets. That is why many of us are somewhat wary of you journalists.

Some of you are more careless with the use of your mighty words than many of us think you should be and less diligent about the facts which your words often are represented to portray.

But then you are not required to pay for and substantiate that you have completed a minimum of training in order to exercise your First Amendment rights.

You are not required to pay the state for a permit/license and to regularly re-test, re-qualify, and re-license in order to exercise your First Amendment rights.

Nor should you be.

Many of us fear that those among your profession that are avowedly anti Second Amendment rights and too many of those among your profession that simply do not understand the importance of all of our rights may be an actual threat against those rights.

We, for the most part, do not feel that we should be required to be licensed, qualifed, indeed, permitted to exercise our Second Amendement rights any more that we are permitted to exercise any of our constitutional rights.

Many among us are quite frightened of the power of some of those in your profession and the irresponsibility, not to mention open disdain, that some of you seem to hold for us.

I hope you are making progress toward putting the horrors of your childhood behind you, and I encourage you, if you haven't done so already, to avail yourself of professional help.

God bless you and best wishes.

Will
 
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