My first SHTF scenario

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it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the store you were in gets broken into within the very near future
 
it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the store you were in gets broken into within the very near future
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Yeah, as soon as the hooptie gets fixed.


If it was so cold in the car then why did it take them so long to come in? Sounds like a bs story they told the cop.

I walk on pins and needles when I go into a new gun shop. They don't know me and I don't want to give any bad vibes. Hands out of pockets, smile and wave at the owners, no cussing or death threats on the first visit. :) If I have a firearm to bring in or sell, I leave it in the car and go in and talk about it first. Noobody taught me these things, they just seem to make sense.

What these guys did was DUMB and they are lucky to be alive. Some people don't have any good sense.

Nice that the boy's mother came back with him to apologize, wonder where she went wrong raising him? We see who has the manners in the family. Too bad good manners are learned and not passed on genetically.
 
Hmm take cold hands out of warm pockets are get shot in the face. there hands must have been realy cold.

Lifes full of difficult choices this isnt one of those though
 
Yeah, you guys did the right thing. It's quite probable that the non-gangsters fed that poor cop quite a line of crap. I mean, seriously, how cold can your hands be?
 
Cold enough so that you put them in your pockets to preserve heat. :D

I think you guys reacted reasonably, I mean they ignored gun store etiquette by walking in without showing their hands, they cursed the owner and refused to respect his requests. What were you supposed to do but assume that they were armed and about to become a threat to you?

As for the racial profiling comment, I don't think that you should search for a criminal based solely on race. I mean, let's say that a victim says that a white guy threatened him with a knife, should the cop have reason to stop and question every white guy he comes across?
 
^^^ That would be my guess too.

Seriously, if they really were telling the truth they have to be the dumbest guys on the planet. Cold hands notwithstanding, when a guy points a gun at your head and tells you to take your hands out of your pockets, you do exactly that unless you have something to hide. If they weren't telling the truth and were casing the place, they're still the dumbest guys on the planet; who, really, attempts to rob a gun store who isn't looking to be blown away?

Which may have been the point; there are a lot of racial and political cards that can be played by a smart lawyer in a wrongful death lawsuit.
 
So, its ok to draw down on someone who enters your shop with their hands in their pockets?
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Umm, no. It is, however, ok to take proper precautions when someone starts cussing you and acting aggressively on your private property. At least thats my take on it.
 
obviously the three people in the store that had firearms/threat recognition training didn't think they were over-reacting...
 
"obviously the three people in the store that had firearms/threat recognition training didn't think they were over-reacting..."

Maybe they need more training.
 
Yeah Frank,

That's what I tell a law enforcement officer too. "Hey, they're my pockets. Bleep you man, don't you think you're overreacting?" :rolleyes:


As for the story, good call. I wish more people were as aware of their surroundings.
 
1. They were not LEO, they were clerks.

2. As it turned out, the "bad guys" were not robbers, they were customers.


Spin it any way you like.
 
Ade's Gun shop - IMO, currently the only gunshop in Orange County, CA worth doing business with - "buzzes" his customers in.

He has a sign on his locked door that states: "Please wait to be recognized"; if he doesn't like your looks, then you are not allowed into his shop.

Also, there was a Turner's Outdoorsman here in So. Cal. that was recently a victim of a Takeover/Smash'n'Grab where a group of men robbed the place. Brave robbers WILL rob a gunstore - but Turner's is unique in that none of the employees that I see there ever have a gun on their hip, unlike other gunstores I've been in - makes them a target for easy pickins', I would think.

Find the video of the robbery here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcSp4SJAsOE

A question for you Frank:

1. They were not LEO, they were clerks.
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Are you saying that ONLY LEO's are capable of ascertaining wether someone is a criminal, or that you must be a LEO to respond to perceived criminal intent?

I depend on myself for my safety, as you will find most members here on THR do likewise.
I do not want to phone the Police AFTER I have been beaten and robbed, I want to prevent the beating and robbery BEFORE it happens.
Also, I do not want my wife to call the cops AFTER she has been raped, I want her to be able to stop the rape BEFORE it happens.
Hopefully, you will be lucky to have a cop available when something bad happens to you, but I wouldn't count on it; myself - I hope to be prepared enough to make sure that I am not an easy target for any evildoer.
 
1. They were not LEO, they were clerks.
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I was merely pointing out that saying the same thing to a cop is about as smart as saying it to a shop full of gun clerks, who also happen to have their weapons trained on you. I do not think it is unreasonable to request that four people show their hands when they enter a store in the manner in which they chose. LIkewise, if I have a police officer who makes a similar request I will comply.

2. As it turned out, the "bad guys" were not robbers, they were customers.
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They didn't buy anything, however they used curse words and chose to use a very aggressive posture while in the store, after sitting in their car for five minutes "not being suspicious".

I also would not call them "good guys".


Spin it any way you like.
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Thanks....


-------

I'm done-zo, nothing more to be said...
 
That is the most F'd up, most hilarious scenario I've read in a looooong time. From the sound of things - from your perspective and that of the owner's - you guys certainly did the wrong thing, because:

1) The kids exhibited suspicious behavior to begin with
2) The kids/thugs made a note of themselves by the way they dressed and what they were driving
3) The kids then disobeyed a direct order within a gun shop and didn't think of the consequences or the reason for said order
4) They continued to exhibit suspicious behavior after a rebuke
5) After the display of arms, they then got aggressive
6) After further rebuke, one of them made aggressive/potentially threatening move

Those kids are very, very fortunate they didn't get shot.
 
Now, I am in constant orange.
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And you probably will be for a while. Both my buddy and I have had guns drawn on us, and I can honestly say I've never looked at a person the same way since.

I do not envy police officers.

Oh yeah, and I'm going to bet dollars to pesos (while supplies last :() that those thugs were as guilty as sin of something and that they were both up to no good, and probably had some sort of record already. My money is on "casing the joint", or maybe some sort of gang initiation - or both.
 
though I'd put my money on the good-guys. Punks with guns versus trained and practiced people who are on the ready.... Little, if any, contest
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I used to think the same thing but I read in a magazine that there were tests done with ppl who had never fired a gun and within 15 feet they hit the target 65% of the time within 3 seconds. Not a comforting fact.
 
According to those who want college campuses disarmed, you 3 would have killed the bad guys and probably each other and if any one of you was left standing then he would have been shot by the cops when they got there.

According to me, job well done!
 
Had something sorta similar happen a while ago at a pawn shop that I used to visit.

To quote myself...
Not too long ago I was at my favorite pawn shop (the guy there lets me know when something nice comes in) and in come a trio of gangsta-punk types. Serious attitude and RUDE right from the get-go. So after the second time he has to tell them that he's only going to bring one firearm out of the cabinet at a time they start in with "Yo 'ol man you gotta problem? We could make a problem y'know."

He looks the mouthy one in the eye and says "you know what, I'm not going to do any g@#d@m#$d business with you so you need to leave, now".

Ummmm...okay.

So I move off to the archway on the side (honestly I was clearing out of any potential field of fire) only to discover that there's already two of the other shop guys there waiting (fortunately they know me well so they just give me a nod) and we've ALL got our hands in our pockets, on grips, etc.

At this point I just want to get out of there but before I can move the mouthy one spews out a few more cuss words and tells his buddies that he's leaving. He spins around to head out the door and sees all of us standing there and you can see the situation click together in his head and suddenly he's really polite with "'scuse me, I'd like to leave now" as he goes past us.

The owner is standing at the door and says "gentlemen, do you see that" pointing behind them. They all turn and look...right into the video cameras. The owner then says "Thanks, now we have good video footage of you. You are not welcome in this store any more so please do not come back".

Punks leave and we all kinda heave a sigh of relief then the girl behind the counter pipes in with "Hey boss, 911 wants to know if they still need to come"? Okay it's not that funny to repeat but we had quite a laugh over it at the time (tension release I guess).

In the end, just some mouthy punk kids, but NOT a fun situation to be in for sure!
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I don't mind saying I was kinda locked on condition orange for about 48 hours after that as well.
 
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