My Liberal Girlfriend Loves to Shoot and Loves Guns.

[Leanwolf]

Aside from mandatory eye protection!!, buy your girlfriend a good pair of shooting ear muffs!

Those little foam plugs are virtually worthless when it comes to real ear protection. They may be okay for .22 L.R., but won't hardly cut it at all when you move up to the centerfire stuff.


Orionenger, as for Tellner's reference to being a "Watermelon" in relation to his "left wing liberal," political ideolgy the term means "Environmental greenie whacko" on the outside, and "communist," or "red" on the inside.

Therefore, "Watermelon."

FWIW.

L.W.

 

[armedandsafe]

The caption to the picture states:

This is right after the first shot.

Then we get this:

Classic scared female stance there -- weight on back foot, head far away from stock, terrified of recoil.

When I fire a truely big-bore, I get rocked back, too. I weigh just a bit more than the lass depicted. here. While I agree that shooting stance is an important thing to teach (and practice) I did not get the immediate impression that her stance was improper before she pulled the trigger.

Pops

 

[wooderson]

While I have no knowledge of Orwell's political inclinations

He was a 'democratic socialist' with libertarian socialist (nee anarchist) leanings. (Hard to differentiate at times, the two groups intermixed heavily in the late-19th and early-20th centuries, and had a common foe in the Bolsheviks between the wars.)

The term "liberal" (along with "Progressive") has been co-opted by Leftists to the extent that it is almost meaningless....or at least, frequently (and often intentionally) mis-used.

"Liberal" has no more been co-opted and rendered 'meaningless' than libertarian has. Times change, words change. In one era liberal refers to anti-feudal reformers, in another it refers to abolitionists, in another it refers to welfare capitalists. In the late Soviet era 'liberals' were capitalists and 'conservatives' were the party-line nationalist Bolshies.

90 years ago libertarian meant 'anti-state socialist' (and still does in other parts of the world) now it refers to a laissez-faire capitalist ideology. Even today, you throw 'civil' in front of libertarian and you've moved the issue completely.

Language is gloriously fluid, especially when it comes to the two or three most common descriptors in American politics.

 

[Janos Dracwlya]

My wife is a pagan (and a pro-gun anarchist), and most of her liberal pagan friends are at least gun-tolerant. One of the most otherwise left-leaning of the group is very clear on the idea that access to guns is a civil right just like free speach (and freedom of religion, naturally).

I've had a number of other friends who were both liberal (not libertarian) and pro-gun, so it's not an isolated phenomena.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Folks our age actually tend to lean libertarian, so long as they're not the silly overly idealistic type hoping for utopia.

 

[Zoogster]

Careful, you show her leaning over a vehicle with a loaded firearm. In many places that is against the law. In fact some LEO were going so crazy as to bust people leaning loaded firearms against the tire after hunting that some pro gun states specificly added it in legislation that is legal to lean them against the vehicle loaded Firing them leaning over it, and most likely laying on top of it though is perhaps still considered firing from a vehicle which is a felony many places. Careful what proof you post. Both the owner/driver of the vehicle as well as the person doing the shooting is guilty of a felony for letting someone do so in CA. The law makes no distinction aobut what part of the vehicle or whether it is on/off in motion etc.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Eleven Mike & tellner ~

Open a separate thread, in L&P, if you want to pursue that discussion, please. Hate to see this one get thread-jacked.

pax

Well, that went over well.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Thats cool and all, but this is one of the hobbies I have that she enjoys almost as much a I do.

Same here, and mine took a similar path. Some of my favorite times with her are a lazy afternoon talking, walking, and shooting our way through a sporting clays course.

 

[RemingtonFreak870]

Well Zoogster, I know in AZ you are not allowed to shoot from a moving vehicle. However I do not believe there is a law against leaning rifles on them or using them as a rest while practicing. As long as it is winter and there is no evidence that it is criminal I think I will continue to use my hood as a rest. It snowed again and yesterday when I went out there was 3" everywhere. Now in the summer I like to sit on the ground and simulate real hunting scenarios, in the winter I am just trying to sight in my scope. The hood is the right height and temperature for using as a rest in the winter. I would really like to know if I am committing a crime here, if so I will be upset. Thankfully Az has pretty reasonable gun laws, unlike Ca and whatnot. I would like to know, however I would be very surprised if what I did were illegal, especially a felony. Either way you bring up an interesting point. That is, what all do you use for rests and things, I have a Jeep, thus no room to bring out tables and chairs and things. Also we were standing on the ground. Not on or in the car. And Az does make distinctions between on/off and moving/unmoving.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Careful, you show her leaning over a vehicle with a loaded firearm. In many places that is against the law. In fact some LEO were going so crazy as to bust people leaning loaded firearms against the tire after hunting that some pro gun states specificly added it in legislation that is legal to lean them against the vehicle loaded Firing them leaning over it, and most likely laying on top of it though is perhaps still considered firing from a vehicle which is a felony many places. Careful what proof you post. Both the owner/driver of the vehicle as well as the person doing the shooting is guilty of a felony for letting someone do so in CA. The law makes no distinction aobut what part of the vehicle or whether it is on/off in motion etc.

You'll definitely have to provide a reference for me to even begin to believe this...

 

[bogie]

Those little foam plugs are virtually worthless when it comes to real ear protection. They may be okay for .22 L.R., but won't hardly cut it at all when you move up to the centerfire stuff.

I have to differ on this... A lot of the foam plugs are just as effective, if not more effective, than outside the ear muffs...

Thing is tho, you have to use 'em right. Don't just stuff 'em in the outside of your ear (I see so many people at the range like that...). Spin 'em between your fingers to mush 'em down, and shove the things in GOOD.

 

[CornCod]

Well, yes there are some "historical accidents" that made liberals anti-gun. The original federal restrictions on machine-guns were passed to prevent private security guards from machinegunning strikers during labor unrest.

There were two big essentially left-wing movements in the US during the turn of the last century, Populism and Progressivism. For very complex historical reasons, they both faded in influence. Both of these movements were very strong in rural areas, where there is hunting, target-shooting and other aspects of gun culture. I doubt that either of these movements would have turned anti-gun as time went on.

The domiant form of "liberalism" in the modern US is Frankfurt School cultural Marxism, a European import. (with deep roots, believe it or not, in the short lived Communist Bela Kun regime in Hungary '1919-1920') The Frankfurt School theoreticians were urban in orientation. In contrast to Bolshevism, the Frankfurt School Marxists and other dissident Marxists like Antonio Gramsci were distrustful of workers and peasants (in American terms "blue collars and folks from the sticks") and were oriented toward capturing elites. They rejected revolution from below. So, to them permitting gun-ownership is essentially reactionary.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Those little foam plugs are virtually worthless when it comes to real ear protection. They may be okay for .22 L.R., but won't hardly cut it at all when you move up to the centerfire stuff.

With proper use and placement, foam plugs offer a 30+ NRR rating. The reusable, silicon filled plugs I use are 33 NRR.

The vast majority of muffs that are practical for shooting only get to about 25 NRR.

I gave up on muffs a long time ago. Plugs are more comfortable, don't interfere with my shooting glasses, and don't interfere with my cheek weld.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I agree it is fully immoral to put targets up on trees

Immoral to shoot a tree? You have to be kidding me.

I shoot on my own land. The tree belongs to me. It doesn't have a soul and does not sense pain.

I have gotten rid of several very large water oaks I didn't want by gradually shooting through them over a period of a year or two. These trees were located inside tracts of land planted in pines. Shooting through them is actually easier than trying to cut them down. They suck up a lot of water that pine trees need to grow, block out a lot of light with their large canopy, and are basically of no use; certainly it would cost you more to cut the tree down and haul it off than the wood is even worth.

 

[RemingtonFreak870]

On private land it is a totally different issue...I have land as well and have used the 'ole 870 to clear a LOT of brush while making roads and civilizing the area. Shooting trees in the national forests is wrong, those are eveyone's trees and they are in the forest for protection, I don't think many people will agree that shooting trees is OK on public land. On private land it is a whole new issue, your land, your trees, your rules. 12 gauges work well for exterminating Jumping Cholla cactus around the house...plus once you get stuck bad enough by one, you will vow revenge.

 

[wooderson]

Well, yes there are some "historical accidents" that made liberals anti-gun. The original federal restrictions on machine-guns were passed to prevent private security guards from machinegunning strikers during labor unrest.

As well, some the (perhaps original) California carry laws were designed by Republicans to de-fang the Black Panthers.

I generally dislike the mode of argument that equates American gun control to the Nazis and so on, but there are legitimate ties between the laws on the books and reactionaries of the past, who sought to keep guns out of the hands of union members, minorities, etc..

The domiant form of "liberalism" in the modern US is Frankfurt School cultural Marxism, a European import. (with deep roots, believe it or not, in the short lived Communist Bela Kun regime in Hungary '1919-1920') The Frankfurt School theoreticians were urban in orientation. In contrast to Bolshevism, the Frankfurt School Marxists and other dissident Marxists like Antonio Gramsci were distrustful of workers and peasants (in American terms "blue collars and folks from the sticks") and were oriented toward capturing elites. They rejected revolution from below. So, to them permitting gun-ownership is essentially reactionary.

Suffice to say, you're the first person I've ever met to give the Frankfurt School any measure of political influence in American politics or history. American liberalism is still rooted heavily in populism, if only because that's the only way to get elected. Even 'elites' like Kerry espouse a kind of regional populism - that their distrust of NASCAR doesn't play in the South doesn't make them un-populist.

I would also, of course, disagree strongly with your characterization of Gramsci (who wrote a great deal about the need for a genuine working-class culture - completely unrelated to the Frankfurt School's cultural elitism) and Bolsheviks (the original 'distrustful of peasants' group - there's a reason Lenin trotted out that 'vanguard of the revolution' line).

 

[ArmedBear]

He was a 'democratic socialist' with libertarian socialist (nee anarchist) leanings.

Depends when in his life. To represent George Orwell as being a true believer with unchanging political views is just plain dishonest, and counterproductive to the understanding of his writing.

"1984" documented a serious break from socialism, based on what he saw happening in the world beyond philosophy and conjecture, and surely a shift away from anarchist optimism.

 

[ithacalover]

I took my friend's high-class Audi-driving girlfriend out shooting last winter and was amazed by her ability to soak up 12-guage magnum buckshot loads from my Ithaca 37 and my frightening Mauser FR-8 carbine in 7.62 NATO. And no benchrest, either! And she's Canadian! (Like me)
I had real respect for the girl after that. Too bad they broke up.

 

[ArmedBear]

Even today, you throw 'civil' in front of libertarian and you've moved the issue completely.

Not at all true. Narrowing the issue to a specific area does not move it much, if at all.

WRT the term "liberal" being co-opted, that would depend on whether you think English and American are the same thing.

Personally, I see these terms as nothing more than "brands."

"Republican" has a real meaning, as does "Democrat." But in the real world, Republicans might favor democracy (e.g. abortion laws or gay marriage to be determined by popular vote at the state level) whereas the Democrats may favor a republican approach (e.g. Federal gun bans, "campaign finance reform", etc., based on the votes of a few representatives and applying to all states and citizens).

I think you hit on something with "populism." Both parties, now, are populist parties. They have different ad slogans and varying spin, designed only to defeat the other at a given time.

 

[wooderson]

"1984" documented a serious break from socialism, based on what he saw happening in the world beyond philosophy and conjecture, and surely a shift away from anarchist optimism.

"1984" was (primarily) a portrait of totalitarianism (drawn more from Stalin's USSR than Nazi Germany, if only because the latter no longer posed a threat to Orwell's world), both right and left. Orwell had little use for the Bolsheviks from the start and spent the rest of his life battling Stalinists after the suppression of the POUM (Party of Marxist Unity, Orwell's libertarian comrades in the Spanish Civil War).

You'll find little difference between the Orwell of "Animal Farm" and the Orwell of "1984" - and his introduction to the former was about his dedication to democratic socialism and against the Soviet sham.

 

[wacki]

Anyhow until she met me she had never fired a gun at all. Now the AK-47 is her favorite...one of our first date was to shoot rotten melons with a 44 magnum. She no longer votes for anti-gun cantidates btw.

Just want to remind everyone to invite random liberals out to the gun range. It's a great way to protect our rights!