Myth of the long-gun for home defense

[MTMilitiaman]

I would have to disagree on most accounts.

Yes, a handgun is more discreet. If I am awaken by a sound I am not sure of, such as a garbage can being tipped over in the driveway or a knock on the door, I will investigate with my Insight equipped SIG P220. Other than that, the only time I will call on the handgun is if I wake up with someone already in my room and no time to secure a long gun.

If I wake up to the sound of breaking glass or a door being kicked in, or an indoor lamp being tipped over, or voices in the living room, I am leaving the .45 on the bed stand and grabbing my AK. It has a reflex sight and a Surefire on it, and with 30 rounds of 124 gr JHP, I am much more confident in its ability to handle any developing scenarios.

Keep in mind that I only sleep in a pair of athletic shorts. I don't have a lot of pocket room for extra mags and such. Also, personally, I would tend to avoid clearing my house by myself unless absolutely necessary. I don't have kids to protect. My room mates all have guns of their own. My movement would be limited to securing a hallway or staircase. Anything entering said staircase or hallway would get 125 lumens to the face. Anyone I don't know then takes a pair of JHP to the chest. Searching a house, even your own, in tactically unsound, esp given you're drowsy from just waking up and have no idea how many intruders you're up against, what they are armed with, or what their intent is. You can only assume and prepare for the worst, in that case. Hunker down in an easily dependable position, preferably one that can only be approached from a single direction, and wait it out.

A rifle is more accurate and much easier for most to control safely and accurately than any handgun. Additionally, they are orders of magnitude more effective and most have much higher magazine capacities, which hopefully won't be needed, but no one ever lost a gunfight because they had a few extra rounds. Also, the muzzle of a rifle will be about as far from the body as a handgun held at arm's length, so with a little practice, I don't buy the rifle being all that more difficult to handle indoors. A good single-point sling is easy to use and does wonders for weapon retention. Just like the handgun can be properly carried close to the body for close retention in tight areas, a rifle can be carried with the buttstock secured under the strong side armpit with the muzzle parallel to the ground to reduce its overall length while retaining control. Given the benefits the rifle offers over a handgun, it is foolish to consider a handgun when you can use a rifle.

 

[Nickjc]

Wasn't there an older anecdote saying that a texas ranger showed up to a dance with his sidearm....

A nice lil ole lady asked if the ranger was expecting trouble due to him carrying his sidearm...

The ranger smiled and stated Ma'am if i was expecting trouble i would have had my rifle....

I prefer my .357 Revolver and my 12g mossberg 590

 

[Al Thompson]

I tried cutting some wood with my hammer, switched to driving some nails with my saw.

Best to have lots of tools in the tool box.

 

[Zach S]

Finally, consider an insistent knock at the door late at night. In our polite society, such a knock will probably be a neighbor in trouble or some family member or church member in crisis. Most of us would not want to confront such a person holding a shotgun because, again, most people are friendlies.

Yes, most would be friendlies.

However, family members, friends, and church members know me and are unlikely to freak out if I answer the door with a long gun. In fact, if they're pounding on my door in the middle of the night, they might welcome the sight of my AR15.

 

[Dr_2_B]

So, in other words, you've deliberately put up an inflammatory thread title just to get responses.

You know what John, you're right. Actually it wasn't intentional, though - it was poor choice of words. My apologies - it wasn't just meant to be an inflammatory heading.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm completely with Texas Rifleman here. If you think it's too difficult or impractical to use a long gun indoors, you haven't been trained. If you say "Most people don't know how to use a long gun indoors", than they don't usually know how to use a pistol indoors either. LEARN. Make the training fit reality. Don't undertrain and make excuses.

If you find yourself in an equally-matched fight, your tactics suck. If you DON'T KNOW what the intruder is armed with, you must assume the worst. You must err on the side of too much rather than too little. Otherwise, it makes little sense to say you are arming yourself to protect your life at all.

The only reason to rely on a sidearm is concealability. In a home, there is no reason to conceal. Why use one? To get up my stairs, I have a 180 degree turn, right-handed. This is as tough as it gets. I am going to have to do it left-handed, no matter what kind of gun I use. This is the likely entry point to my house and the most likely place I will confront an intruder. I have planned out and practiced clearing it with a carbine. It may be EASIER to move with a pistol, but I have not yet seen any situation where it is IMPOSSIBLE to do it with a long gun. Get a collapsible stock. Learn to move at the low-ready and with the muzzle raised. get whatever training and gear is necessary to give you the maximum advantage. Everything else is just making excuses.

This is why my primary is an 870 loaded with #4 buck, my backup (and my wife's primary) is an M-1 carbine. I have AKs, an SKS, ARs, etc. This is what I choose to use, not what I am rationalizing because I don't have anything else.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I belive that you/we would be better prepared with a knife+training, than with any type of firearm+no training. So I would go with whatever I had more experience with.

In short, training tops hardware.

And you can buy an airsoft AR or pistol to train INSIDE your house without a LIVE round going off.


Be safe.
My $.02

 

[Dr_2_B]

basically, i don't think you thought your argument out very well. i don't need to conceal a rifle in my home for any reason. and i don't have trouble manipulating it on any of my staircases, which also have 180* turns.

where's the disadvantage? where's the myth?

Taliv, I really disagree that it's poorly thought-out. We know, of course, in your home the law says you're free to carry a rifle. But in the real world there are people (who perhaps arrived at your door by mistake) who will call the police with a man-with-gun complaint and just ruin your whole evening. Possibly even worse depending on the personnel on duty at the time.

I agree that ideally there is nothing wrong with going to your door holding any type of legal firearm. But separating the real from the ideal, in the real world it has the capacity to cause a great deal of needless trouble and that it puts the user of a long-gun at a disadvantage.

 

[TexasRifleman]

But in the real world there are people (who perhaps arrived at your door by mistake) who will call the police with a man-with-gun complaint and just ruin your whole evening.

Again, tactics and training, and some common sense.

Why the heck would you open the door to your own home to someone you don't know?

Someone at the wrong house should never see you holding a rifle since you'd be crazy to open the door in the first place.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Absolutely; said it before many times, and I'll say it again many times:

1. For staying put in the bedroom or elsewhere, taking up a position, and dialing 911 (KNOWN trouble), a longgun is preferred, and that means preferably a shotgun.

2. For investigation of a bump in the night (possible trouble), going room to room, a handgun is preferred, with longgun slung over the shoulder for just in case.

It's a training issue *if* and *only if* you have the time, money, and inclination to train thoroughly. The stark cold reality is that MOST Americans don't have the time, money, and inclination to train thoroughly, and that makes the handgun the best "investigating" gun or "opening the door to stranger" gun, for MOST people. As for it being a myth that the rifle is best, yes, that would be a myth IF it were the prevailing conventional wisdom - but it's not. Ask people on the street what their "home defense gun" is - 90-95% will say a handgun. People who don't hunt largely use handguns only for defense, if they own a gun at all. The 'net ain't the correct population sample.

 

[Reid73]

In the real world there are people (who perhaps arrived at your door by mistake) who will call the police with a man-with-gun complaint and just ruin your whole evening. Possibly even worse depending on the personnel on duty at the time.

Absolutely.

 

[Travis Bickle]

A double-barrel shotgun cut down as short as legally possible might be the best of all worlds. It can be cut down several inches shorter than other types of shotguns because the action isn't taking up any space. The only drawback is the low capacity, but studies of real-life defensive situations tell us that, statistically, you will probably never need more than two shotgun blasts to handle any situations that arise. And anyway, if you practice a lot, you can get pretty darn quick reloading. As Clint Smith says, it's at least as important to know how to run the gun you've got as it is to have the best gun in the world with all the bells and whistles.

 

[Dr_2_B]

It's a training issue *if* and *only if* you have the time, money, and inclination to train thoroughly. The stark cold reality is that MOST Americans don't have the time, money, and inclination to train thoroughly

Dr. Winslow, thanks for saying that. I'd thought it but somehow felt ashamed - as if I was not a good American for not having enrolled in that training yet. It is important to remember that, like it or not, most people will not undergo expert tactical training. Yet we still support their constitutional right to defend themselves with a firearm.

 

[TexasRifleman]

It is important to remember that, like it or not, most people will not undergo expert tactical training.

Probably not, but the lack of training is just as bad when it's a handgun as a rifle.

There is nothing about handguns that makes them "easier" to use properly.

The thought seems to be that if you use a handgun all those problems are somehow avoided.

 

[JShirley]

I've only had one REALLY late banging-on-the-door moment. The police were the only folk I could think that might be banging on my door at 0330, though I couldn't imagine why. I took my P11 9mm just in case.

(Turned out to be a friend lived about two hours away, who keeps really weird hours, and who stayed with me a couple of times a month so he could train at my dojo.)

Now, if I'd heard the door splinter in, I would have been holding an M1 Carbine, AR-15, Guide Gun, or Mossberg 500- whichever was closest.

John

 

[Zach S]

If you wake up to somebody jimmying your kitchen window, just stand behind a doorway, rack the slide vertically and shout in your best Tony Montana voice "Okaaaaay, I'm reloaaaded!!!"

And ruin any stealth you may have by giving away your position.

I hate this line of thought. So many folks are so dependent on simply racking the shotgun that they're less likely to shoot. They're less likely to shoot because racking a shotgun is a great deterrent, and they think it will work.

Most of the time, it does. However, if the three kids are armed, they could just start shooting in your general direction. Since the ca-CHUCK didn't work it will most likely result in a "whiskey tango foxtrot" moment on your part, while you're under fire from three guys.

Taking fire from three guys is not a good time to think "Well shucks, now what?"

IMO, if someone is close enough to hear you rack it, you let them get too close to you while you were holding a club, instead of a shotgun.

 

[benEzra]

A double-barrel shotgun cut down as short as legally possible might be the best of all worlds. It can be cut down several inches shorter than other types of shotguns because the action isn't taking up any space. The only drawback is the low capacity, but studies of real-life defensive situations tell us that, statistically, you will probably never need more than two shotgun blasts to handle any situations that arise. And anyway, if you practice a lot, you can get pretty darn quick reloading. As Clint Smith says, it's at least as important to know how to run the gun you've got as it is to have the best gun in the world with all the bells and whistles.

My concern with a double-barrel would be that you had better only have one assailant, and you had better be able to match Jim Cirillo himself under stress.

IIRC, the NYPD Stakeout Squad in Cirillo's time had a hit rate well somewhere between 20% and 50% with double-barreled shotguns (I don't recall the exact percentage). A less than 50% hit rate means that you will likely need both barrels to hit a single assailant, and there is pretty good chance that you'll run dry before you incapacitate him. And if your assailant has a partner, you are likely SOL.

I certainly stand in awe of the shotgun's per-shot lethality, but if I were going to keep a shotgun for HD, I'd personally want a capacity significantly greater than 2.

 

[rbernie]

Since this has nothing to do with Rifles, I'm moving the thread to S&T....

 

[Zach S]

Probably not, but the lack of training is just as bad when it's a handgun as a rifle.

IMO, its worse. Its always easier to get hits with a long arm.

I've let a lot of new shooters try my ARs in 22 and 9mm, and get COM hits at greater distances in less time than it took for them to miss the target at 5 yards with a pistol.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I grap my 870 since my house has a Country Kitchen in the middle where all the other rooms come off of. I have a full sized Red Oak Bar in the middle filled with Dishes and tons of stuff. I load #4 and HP slugs every other one. When I get my 30/30 carbine I will grab it.

 

[FHBrumb]

My first line of defense is my Lab. If he can't scare off whatever threatens my home, the XD-45 (and a mini light) gets the call.

If the neighborhood erupted into violence, I'd head for the basement. My Benelli Nova Tactical would be the first long gun out of the safe. Pretty likely the only one. If I needed to shoot a little far, I have a new Mini 14 Tactical series 580. I also have a Marlin 30-30.

But if I was looking to identify a "bump in the night", my dog and my Xd-45 would be with me, not a long gun.

 

[cipher]

And ruin any stealth you may have by giving away your position.

I hate this line of thought. So many folks are so dependent on simply racking the shotgun that they're less likely to shoot. They're less likely to shoot because racking a shotgun is a great deterrent, and they think it will work.

Most of the time, it does. However, if the three kids are armed, they could just start shooting in your general direction. Since the ca-CHUCK didn't work it will most likely result in a "whiskey tango foxtrot" moment on your part, while you're under fire from three guys.

Taking fire from three guys is not a good time to think "Well shucks, now what?"

IMO, if someone is close enough to hear you rack it, you let them get too close to you while you were holding a club, instead of a shotgun.

I hear you, and if someones on the other side of the doorway from me, I wouldn't give a thought to racking the slide just to make a point.

But if someone is coming through the door or a window, and they hear a shotgun rack, they're not gonna start shooting through the walls like a swat team. Anythings possible, but if they're nervous and trying something out they're liable to run if they even see a light come on. If they're experienced, they know that an x-box 360 and some air force ones in the closet aren't worth risking life in jail or a casket.

I guess you do run the risk of someone getting spooked and chopping your house up, but going three-on-one with armed felons isn't exactly "the safe way" to go about it. If someone was coming just to kill you, you'd probably know it, and in that case, barking may not be the best.

 

[Travis Bickle]

My concern with a double-barrel would be that you had better only have one assailant, and you had better be able to match Jim Cirillo himself under stress.

IIRC, the NYPD Stakeout Squad in Cirillo's time had a hit rate well somewhere between 20% and 50% with double-barreled shotguns (I don't recall the exact percentage). A less than 50% hit rate means that you will likely need both barrels to hit a single assailant, and there is pretty good chance that you'll run dry before you incapacitate him. And if your assailant has a partner, you are likely SOL.

I certainly stand in awe of the shotgun's per-shot lethality, but if I were going to keep a shotgun for HD, I'd personally want a capacity significantly greater than 2.

When I mentioned "real-life defensive situations," I meant only civilian shoots, not all shoots. Perhaps I should've been more clear about that.

Anyway, comparing police shoots to civilian shoots is comparing apples and oranges. This has been gone over in minute detail many times on other threads here, so I really don't want to get into it again.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

Going to agree with the O.P., and say BOTH!

I also have a stair, that no matter the training, makes it more difficult / time consuming to move down the stair. And I can't go racking the slide everytime I hear something go bump in the night; and wake everyone up.....That same stair however would make an intruder come up it, and then that shotgun could make a wall of lead that no amount of Meth, Crack, or determination could get through.

I'll gladly conceed that 1 shot of 9mm vs 1 shot of 00 Buck, the 00 Buck wins hands down, but the cannon you leave up stairs is not as good as the pea shooter you bring with you. So depending on the bump, I say you need BOTH, but also believe a handgun is a very usefull tool to have in the tool box.

 

[cipher]

That's true, when it comes down to it a shotgun's the most lethal weapon close range. And you can customize it for stopping power over lethality if you feel.