Investigating bumps in the night: long gun or handgun?

[wrs840]

OK, I do defer to the wisdom of the posters who are more highly trained than I, and I understand the "stay put" philosophy as the ideal choice.

But if the alarm is going off, and I have a 7 year old kid 20 feet down the hall and an 11 year old 40 feet down the hall... How do I "stay put"?

There's two hall access points from the main house between my bedroom and theirs. If I'm unwilling to move, they're on their own? This is why I see advancing with a weapon (poised in the "safe" retention position I described above) to shepherd them into my bedroom as unavoidable. Then I can stay put, listen in silence as long as seems warranted, and, if necessary, defend one multi-chamber master bedroom.

What am I missing?

Thanks,
Les

 

[Kleanbore]

From WRS840:

...if the alarm is going off, and I have a 7 year old kid 20 feet down the hall and an 11 year old 40 feet down the hall... How do I "stay put"?

There's two hall access points from the main house between my bedroom and theirs. If I'm unwilling to move, they're on their own? This is why I see advancing with a weapon (poised in the "safe" retention position I described above) to shepherd them into my bedroom as unavoidable. Then I can stay put, listen in silence as long as seems warranted, and, if necessary, defend one multi-chamber master bedroom.

What am I missing?

I cannot visualize the layout, but in everything I've read, you "stay put" after getting your family to a safe place with you.

Best holiday wishes to you and yours.

It might be a good idea to rehearse the drill with them (without the gun).

I strongly suggest that you read some of Massad Ayoob's articles and books, and if you have access, watch Personal Defense TV.

Best holiday wishes to you and yours.

 

[mljdeckard]

Like I said, I certainly don't PREFER to clear a house, but in my house, I absolutely do have the advantage. I know where the floor creaks, he doesn't. I know how many paces to reach everything in the dark, he doesn't. I know what is cover and what is concealment in my house, he doesn't. I know where all the armed people in my house are, he doesn't. I know where I can stand and not get cornered, he doesn't. I know where all cell and hardline phones are in my house, he doesn't. I know where the light switches are, he doesn't. I do have what I consider to be a minimum amount of professional training, and the odds are, he will have absolutely none.

I don't WANT to chase someone through the house, but If they're between me and the kids, I absolutely will do so and expect to win if I ever have to.

 

[Deanimator]

I agree. However, when you grab your gun and go looking, you have put yourself at extreme risk. Listen and make a judgment. And consider the idea of cameras.

Video cameras in a small two bedroom apartment like mine, isn't paranoid; it verges on Walter from "Fringe" bat crap nuts.

 

[Glamdring]

This is like asking what is better for building a house a ball peen or claw hammer. Not every problem is a nail needing to be hammered.

If your building a house it is a good idea to have a Plan (blueprint, drawings, etc) to start with. Then you go thru the plan several times looking for problem areas.

Home defense is a prepared defense (well it SHOULD be IMHO). That is a big part of the advantage of an ensconed defender.

You are prepared. You have cover. You know what the possible lines of attack are. You have, ideally, a secondary fighting position and at least two exits. And you should control the lights, think of LEO's doing a traffic stop at night.

For searching or clearing the best way is by remote so your not exposed at close range to danger.

Remote can mean using a dog or a ferret or attack cat (this can be combined with psychop techniques like LEO use with dogs ie "YOU have 3 minutes to leave or I release my attack trained dog, he has been trained to attack the groin first" Then when your friendly golden retriever does what dogs do just checking a new friend out you should get a target indicator). It can also mean having peepholes in walls like the fisheye lens in a door with remote switches for lights. Or having mirrors, I like mirrors with frosted glass with wildlife scenes myself most people just think they are decorations, placed so you can clear corners remotely.

You can also you baby monitors and cheap sensors for windows and doors and cameras web camera and intranet (local net for your house).

 

[Glamdring]

Mas is one instructor I take classes from and I know he recommends handgun for clearing/search in general home defense. He calls handguns infantry and shotguns artillery for home defense.

The shotgun is for sitting still waiting and the handgun is for if you have to go clear and area out like kids bedroom.

But several other people I really respect: Keith Jones, Evan Marshall, Jeff Cooper, just to name a few strongly urge people to use a shotgun, rifle, or carbine when possible.

 

[1858rem]

Perhaps you should say hello to my little friend...


(He's the one standing next to his little brothers, 44 mag and 357 mag)

Muzzle velocity = 800 fps, Muzzle energy = 500 ft. lbs., 440 gr. of pain with 4 more waiting in the cylinder.

Show me a man who can stand up to 5 of those and I'll eat my hat.

.....btw thats actually 625 ft/lb muzzle energy, my 45 colt does 500 ft/lb easy with a 255g!

 

[Doc_Jude]

Right now, with my current arrangements, the handgun is much more expedient.
When I get my M500 Tactical Cruiser w/ folding Knoxx Stock, that may change... Boohahahahahahah!!!!

 

[frogomatic]

I keep a pistol, a 12 gauge, and a big honkin mag light for things of this nature. If it's obvious somthing bad is going down, I would grab the shotty. If I'm just suspicious, I would grab the pistol and the mag light. I like the idea of having a pistol in one hand, and a big flashlight in the other. The pistol would be the bigger threat to a badguy, but a mag light to the skull while he's going for the pistol and it's coloring books for christmas.

 

[DarkCharisma]

Clearing =/= investigating.

There are times where I will leave my bedroom in he middle of the night to investigate a series of strange bumps, Remington 870 in arms. (No flashlight--I know where everything is in my apt, and I'll know if something's out of place.) I have a bit of a 'tactical' advantage, since I can take two steps from my bedroom, peer over the railing, and see if the front door is open from the top of the stairs. If it's closed--and it always has been, fortunately, I'll do a quick sweep of the house to make sure the cat didn't break anything I'll step on in the morning, then go back to bed.

If I ever find that door open or unlocked after I have locked it, I will retreat to the upper hallway, call the police, and take up defensive position to wait. In no way would I try to clear my own apartment.

 

[B yond]

The shotgun is for sitting still waiting and the handgun is for if you have to go clear and area out like kids bedroom.

+1

I keep a mossy 500 with top-folder (folded for ease of maneuverability/transport, opened for accuracy when defending an area) and weapons light for waiting. I keep a p345 with light for checking on noises that are probably nothing.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Personally I would choose a short barreled shotgun. Limited chance of an intruder being able to grab onto it, increased maneuverability and also the added spray for an easier hit with limited punch through for the neighbor's safety. (and less chance of completely destroying your house in the process)

 

[Doc_Jude]

There are times where I will leave my bedroom in he middle of the night to investigate a series of strange bumps, Remington 870 in arms. (No flashlight--I know where everything is in my apt, and I'll know if something's out of place.) I have a bit of a 'tactical' advantage, since I can take two steps from my bedroom, peer over the railing, and see if the front door is open from the top of the stairs...

Oooooh, the dreaded Top Of The Stairs defense! Seriously, ain't no perp knows how to properly clear stairs and keep his head. As long as you hear them coming, you're gravy!

 

[Kleanbore]

Personally I would choose a short barreled shotgun. Limited chance of an intruder being able to grab onto it, increased maneuverability and also the added spray for an easier hit...

There's really not much pattern spread at indoor distances. A policeman I know recommends a shotgun, but he emphasizes the need to practice, practice, practice...

He has one himself, and his recommendation is to stay in the bedroom with the shotgun.

...with limited punch through for the neighbor's safety.

Excellent put.

 

[Bryan_Willman]

The vague average of sensible comments suggests that one should take the pistol and peer to the edge of the darkness. Tree through window? (Happens here every so often) Go get tarp. Signs of BG? Gather household (may be tough if some on different floors) behind concealment with shotgun in hand. Apply "Dreaded Top Of The Stairs" - actually really good - think about it... Summoning of Police and Loud Announcement of that now appropriate.

At shop, trouble will almost always be loudly announced (car ramming door, people attacking man door with crow bar) so win race to gun safe where Mr. Shotgun lives. Then call cops while taking cover (true cover) behind machine tool.

The REAL problem is that things go bump in the night often, and need immediate attention to avoid further damage to the house (wind borne debris breaking windows.) People pounding on the door at home are MUCH more likely to have suffered a boating accident than be attackers. Don't really want to great them with a shotgun.

So rather than "pistol vs shotgun" the better question is - how to immediately know whether you face a BG or a repair?

Video cameras and alarms and dogs are 1st rate suggestions.

Others?

 

[notorious]

The best gun to use is the gun that is ready at hand. I replied handgun because my service weapon is on the nightstand next to me at all times while my 12 gauge is either in the car or at the foot of the bed in its tactcal carry case.

However, in a bump in the night situation, I would not hesitate using either one.

The key points to remember though is how your home is laid out and how wide are your hallways so that you can manuever your shotgun through them.

I have a M3 light and sling on my Remington 870 so I can maintain lighting without worrying about how to hold a flashlight too.

That being said, a phone call to the police should be first, followed by barricading the rest of your family inside the safe room.

Key points. Have your significant other memorize these keypoints...

Where you live
Unique entry ways
Special landmarks
What you are wearing
What you look like
That you are armed with XXX

This ensures the police know how to get to your house and how to get in your house and what you look like and what you have in your hand so they don't shoot you on sight after kicking in the side door when they can't find your front door which is concealed behind some bushes that the thieves hid behind. Don't laugh, some houses here have weird designs that people don't even go through their front doors but rather through the garage or side door.

 

[Ben86]

My Glock 17 is my "bump in the night" gun mainly becaue of convenience. My S&W model 3000 is my "crap hits the fan gun." Also it's my gun when coyotes are loitering next to my house.

Though the long gun can be taken from you more easily than a handgun, there are retention techniques for long guns, such as taught with Ayoobs stressfire. Knowing basic retention of a long gun I feel confident it won't be taken away while rounding a corner.

 

[BHP FAN]

G.I. .45,and my Maglight.

 

[FlyinBryan]

everytime ive checked the house due to a noise, its been with my 1911.

why?

because its the one i sleep with.

i check behind doors with the retention stance as you mentioned.

i even practice shooting in this manner.

i have crimson trace grips and can actually hit with them from this position.

whether i could do it under stress would remain to be seen.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Cliche or not, it is only good tactics [to revert to the more effective weapon]. Let's face it... even out in the publik jungle, if you had a suitable long gun in the vicinity (your car/truck), your handgun should be used to afford you the time required to procure the more ample hardware.

Except that since you have time to get to your vehicle and deploy the long gun, you should probably spend that time starting your vehicle's engine and getting the hell out of there.

Unless you're in a true combat zone like Iraq, "Going back to get a longun" is only applicable in about .000000001% of shooting situations, like a VA Tech or Columbine. In ALL of the rest, a handgun, not even necessarily having to fire it, is enough to end the threat.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Mosin-Nagant 91/30 with attached bayonet.

 

[LIQUID SNAKE]

Scenario A: Discharge the weapon!! The guy should let go once a round goes off. Also if he get's it from you it will be fired already so he will have to pump it to cycle the next round. You could buy some time with that.

Scenario B: I'm so sorry but, was Scenario B even a question or what??? It looks like an abruptly finished statement.

 

[logical]

So I guess we should holster a pistol and charge into the house with a toy shotgun way out front....bad guy grabs the toy gun and as he's shouldering it to "shoot" you, you draw the pistol and shoot him right in the mind.

I love these kind of puzzles.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

both .45 at the bedside, 870 6 ft away. If the (indoor) dogs have done their job there should not be any "bump in the night" producers inside the dwelling.

 

[Contrarian12]

Well now, looking at the story mentioned in posts #35 and #46, (http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.stabbing.burglary.2.851147.html) a robber with a knife (one hand occupied) managed to take control of a shotgun from a homeowner and a friend of his.... the shotgun fired and damaged the homeowners arm.... so I guess the moral is use a pistol?