Investigating bumps in the night: long gun or handgun?

[B yond]

Which is a better choice for investigating bumps in the night: a handgun or a long gun?

My argument:

While a shotgun (or possibly a rifle) is an excellent choice for defending a room, it is not the ideal weapon for investigating bumps in the night indoors (when you don't know if someone is in your home or not). I say this because a handgun can be fired from a retention position (see pic below) without sticking out in front of the shooter's body, while a long gun's barrel will stick out significantly farther. I feel that this would give a BG a better chance of grabbing the muzzle of the weapon and preventing it's effective use at indoor distances.

Scenario A:

You wake up from a deep sleep to a loud crash coming from another area of your house. You don't know if your dog/cat/wife/kid/mother-in-law knocked something over or if there is an intruder in your home. You grab your trusty shotgun and go to investigate. As you turn a corner you come face-to-face with an intruder who immediately grabs the barrel of your weapon (which you either already have in firing position or are bringing into firing position from an indoor ready position). You are now in a physical confrontation with an intruder and are unable to fire your weapon at him.

Scenario B:

You wake up from a deep sleep to a loud crash coming from another area of your house. You don't know if your dog/cat/wife/kid/mother-in-law knocked something over or if there is an intruder in your home. You grab your trusty pistol and go to investigate. As you turn a corner you come face-to-face with an intruder who immediately grabs at your weapon. You are now in a physical confrontation with an intruder but are able to keep enough distance between him and you with your weak hand that you can fire at him from a retention position, ending the threat.


Obviously these scenarios don't cover all variables and assume that you won't fire immediately without first taking at least a fraction of a second to identify your target. Still, I think you can see where I'm coming from.

Your thoughts?

 

[bmxr4life87]

ive thought about this and personally ill take the pistol because i feel i could control it better plus its easier to hide if its just your child/mother in law/ whoever but at the same time you can operate it one handed while using the other hand to dial 911/ lock-open doors/various handly functions. Plus i can get a follow up shot in a hell of a lot quicker with a pistol than a shotgun. Ill take the pistol and let my wife use the shotgun incase the threat makes it past me and decides to rush our bedroom

 

[KC0QGL]

Good argument. In scenario A I would simply pull the trigger of my M590A1 while the BG trys to pull the gun away. IT would do 1 of 2 things: #1 Hit the BG in the torso/arms, killing or majorly wonding the BG, #2 scaring the living hell out of the BG causing the BG to let go of the gun, allowing me to rack the gun to get in a fatal shot. Also a long gun can be used as a club better than a pistol IMO.

 

[mljdeckard]

"They say you can’t use a rifle or shotgun indoors because a bad guy will grab the barrel. Yeah? Well, he better hang on, ‘cause I’m gonna light him up and it’ll definitely be an "E" ticket ride." Clint Smith

Why does situation A make you unable to fire at him? And even if he has the muzzle, and you fire and miss, do you think he's going to hang on? You have a gun in two hands. All he has is a handful of barrel.

Why do you think situation B is better? It's easier to control a long gun when the bad guy has a grip on it than a pistol. You can pull your shotgun or carbine back as well. You could be back up against a wall when you can't retract your pistol anywhere. There are plenty of defensive retention techniques for long guns as well. I would rather try to control a long gun against an opponent than a pistol.

No pistol round is sufficient for self defense. The only reason we carry them everywhere is that carrying a rifle around attracts too much attention. The pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place. When I actually have time to retrieve a gun, it's not going to be a pistol.

 

[bragood]

I live in an apartment alone. I always keep my 45 by the bed because of the better control, BUT I also keep my 12 gauge next to that in case the no gooder has friends.

 

[StorkPatrol]

I recently started sleeping next to one of each...pistol and shotgun. The original poster hit the nail on the head. A longgun is better for defending a room. A pistol is better for a quick inspection to make sure everything is in its place. It leaves one hand free to poke around/open doors/turn on lights/whatever. If all is as it should be, I go back to sleep with a clear mind. If not, I fight with the pistol if forced, or I run my skinny butt back to the bedroom and hole up with the 870. I voted pistol for bump-in-the-night inspections.

 

[B yond]

No pistol round is sufficient for self defense.

Wow. I just about spit my rum and coke all over my monitor!!!

Perhaps you should say hello to my little friend...

(He's the one standing next to his little brothers, 44 mag and 357 mag)

Muzzle velocity = 800 fps, Muzzle energy = 500 ft. lbs., 440 gr. of pain with 4 more waiting in the cylinder.

Show me a man who can stand up to 5 of those and I'll eat my hat.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I don't use a s&w 500 for home defense because I can't afford one and probably couldn't get off quick follow ups. Besides, I think my .45 is plenty of firepower for checking bumps in the night.)

Why do you think situation B is better? It's easier to control a long gun when the bad guy has a grip on it than a pistol. You can pull your shotgun or carbine back as well. You could be back up against a wall when you can't retract your pistol anywhere. There are plenty of defensive retention techniques for long guns as well. I would rather try to control a long gun against an opponent than a pistol.

I think having a free hand makes all the difference in the world. Being able to fire your weapon multiple times one-handed could be the difference between life and death. Sure, you may get one shot off with a shotgun, but if it doesn't stop the threat because he's directed the muzzle away from himself you'll need to rack it for a follow up (unless it's a semi-auto of course), and that could be difficult in the middle of a physical struggle.

If your back is up against a wall, you can't pull either kind of weapon back, but if you have a pistol in one hand and the other free, you might be able to push the BG off of you the couple of inches you'd need to use it. You could also blade your body and lean into the threat to make enough room.

 

[louie19]

Since it is night time, you'll probably want a flashlight in one hand, so having one hand free for the handgun makes more sense. I guess you could use a weapon-mounted flashlight though or carry with a sling.

I think this is where dogs excel. They have better hearing/smell than we do and if they are trained to bark, then they'll alert you to a BG and other bad things.

If you're really worried about a struggle, you should probably train in weapon retention techniques which mljdeckard said are available for long gun as well as handgun.

 

[CoRoMo]

The pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place.

A longgun is better for defending a room. A pistol is better for a quick inspection to make sure everything is in its place.

Aren't these two quotes saying the same basic thing?
The pistol is what you use to fight your way back to a defensive location. That is what it is designated for. If I'm defending a room or a house, my big boys come to play. The hi-cap 45 gets to crawl around in the dark house.

 

[StorkPatrol]

CoRoMo,
The whole "fighting your way back to your rifle" thing has always seemed a little too cliche for me. Let's face it...when I'm going around town with my CCW and I get into a bad situation, I'm not going to be staging an organized retreat back to my house where I will then get a rifle and go back on the offensive. I'm going to fight it out with what I have on hand. However, for the in home scenario, I'll give you this one. I never really thought of it that way, but it's definitely valid for my plan of home defense.

--Stork

 

[DarkCharisma]

Long gun, because that's all I own. :|

 

[CoRoMo]

However, for the in home scenario, I'll give you this one. I never really thought of it that way, but it's definitely valid for my plan of home defense.

Cliche or not, it is only good tactics [to revert to the more effective weapon]. Let's face it... even out in the publik jungle, if you had a suitable long gun in the vicinity (your car/truck), your handgun should be used to afford you the time required to procure the more ample hardware.

 

[Jeff White]

Muzzle velocity = 800 fps, Muzzle energy = 500 ft. lbs., 440 gr. of pain with 4 more waiting in the cylinder.

Show me a man who can stand up to 5 of those and I'll eat my hat.

The history books are full of stories of people who have taken much more damage then you could provide with a S&W 500. There are no magic bullets and if you go into a fight thinking you have the ultimate man stopper then you aren't mentally prepared.

Sure, you may get one shot off with a shotgun, but if it doesn't stop the threat because he's directed the muzzle away from himself you'll need to rack it for a follow up (unless it's a semi-auto of course), and that could be difficult in the middle of a physical struggle.

Tell you what, I'll kit you up in my old Tac Team turn out (level 3A soft armor and SAPI plates, kevlar helmet), make certain that the muzzle of my 6920 is pointed away from you, you can grab the barrel and I'll fire a round. If you can still hang on and take control of the weapon, I'll concede the point.

If your back is up against a wall, you can't pull either kind of weapon back, but if you have a pistol in one hand and the other free, you might be able to push the BG off of you the couple of inches you'd need to use it.

You can always strike your assailant in the solar plexus or face with muzzle of your long gun or deliver a buttstroke when he makes the grab for the weapon. Try going HTH with a pistol in one hand sometime. See how long you can control it and how hard it is to bring it to bear. You can practice a straight arm strike to your assailant's chest and firing from retention on the range all day long and you still aren't prepared for anything more then a fight that goes down exactly the way you practiced. Few, if any of them will.

Both the handgun and the long gun will do the job. The long gun does give you several advantages. In my experience the only place where a handgun is a more appropriate tool is in a very confined space such as an attic or crawl space.

Without training, you are at a disadvantage and trusting to dumb luck in a close fight with either platform.

Since getting into a close fight for real isn't the safest way to train, I suggest you invest some time and money into some good HTH and force on force training and try some of this stuff with blue guns and pads and see how hard a fight like that can be.

 

[rosemont]

This one is tough... I'd have to say without thinking, whichever I have at my disposal at the time.

 

[ambidextrous1]

I use a pistol, but I don't "go looking to see if everything is OK". If anyone breaks in, I'll let him come to me. He'll be outlined in the ever-present soft light as he reaches my bedroom door; h'll be stopped before he enters.

I'll maintain the element of surprise and I'll control the setting where the encounter takes place.

If circumstances warrant, I'll call 911 before the encounter - if not, I'll call immediately afterward, if I can hear well enough to use the cell phone.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I choose the long gun for every thing except concealed carry.

If you NEED a gun, you want to make sure you have ENOUGH gun.

In the case you present, that somehow the bad guy is on you before you know it, then you need to re-think your home's security rather than focusing on the gun.

If your home security setup can't buy you time to get to a gun then the gun type doesn't really matter.

And, walking into an ambush in your own home is so tactically unsound that again, it doesn't matter what gun you are carrying.

 

[L-Frame]

For me, handgun, no question. More mobility, easier weapon retention, less chance of me going bump in the night by banging into something with a long gun. Effectiveness definitely goes to the shotgun, but, for me, that's not enough to overcome what I see are the advantages of the handgun.

 

[WoofersInc]

I voted for the long gun. One thing not in the origional scenario is I have several large dogs. I will not have to go searching. I am going to know that someone is in the house and exactly where he is. I do however have one of each available to me in the bedroom. An XD-45 with a sparge mag and a Mossberg 590.
I will take the shotgun with me and the wife gets the pistol and stays put to call PD.

 

[expvideo]

No pistol round is sufficient for self defense.

ROFL

ETA
to the OP, if you know what you are doing, it is much easier to take a long gun away from someone than a handgun, unless they have the stock locked under their arm like Elmer Fudd. Otherwise, if you get close to someone with any skill what-so-ever, say goodbye to your rifle. No struggle, not shooting the guy as he holds the barrel. It's a really easy and quick move. I'm not a martial arts expert or anything, I'm just saying that retaining a rifle can be a much more difficult task than some would have you believe. It's not always a guy holding your barrel while it's pointed at him.

 

[mljdeckard]

Laugh all you want, it's still true.

 

[B yond]

Tell you what, I'll kit you up in my old Tac Team turn out (level 3A soft armor and SAPI plates, kevlar helmet), make certain that the muzzle of my 6920 is pointed away from you, you can grab the barrel and I'll fire a round. If you can still hang on and take control of the weapon, I'll concede the point.

Why do I keep hearing this sort of argument on the high road? It's just not logical to put oneself in danger to prove a point like this. "If you think a (insert caliber here) is so harmless let me shoot you with one." "If you think this, let me do that to you." These kinds of arguments don't prove your point, and they're not very high road IMO.

You can always strike your assailant in the solar plexus or face with muzzle of your long gun or deliver a buttstroke when he makes the grab for the weapon.

Not always. You can't always manage to retain control of your handgun either. I just think the handgun is easier to use effectively in the scenario being discussed.

Try going HTH with a pistol in one hand sometime. See how long you can control it and how hard it is to bring it to bear. You can practice a straight arm strike to your assailant's chest and firing from retention on the range all day long and you still aren't prepared for anything more then a fight that goes down exactly the way you practiced. Few, if any of them will.

I'd rather not go HTH at all, thank you. If I can practice all day long and still not be prepared, how can you always strike your assailant in the solar plexus with the muzzle of your long gun?

 

[Jeff White]

Why do I keep hearing this sort of argument on the high road? It's just not logical to put oneself in danger to prove a point like this. "If you think a (insert caliber here) is so harmless let me shoot you with one." "If you think this, let me do that to you." These kinds of arguments don't prove your point, and they're not very high road IMO.

You forget my friend, that it's YOUR point that needs to be proven. I just offered you a chance to prove to everyone that it's likely that someone could hang on the the muzzle of a center fire rifle or shotgun and fight for control while it's being fired. There is nothing wrong with pointing out absurdity with more absurdity. I simply challenged you to prove your point, which you seem unable or unwilling to do.

Not always. You can't always manage to retain control of your handgun either. I just think the handgun is easier to use effectively in the scenario being discussed.

Nothing wrong with thinking that. May I ask what experience you have in that scenario that has led you to that conclusion?

I'd rather not go HTH at all, thank you.

What kind of fight do you think you're going to be in at that point? Your whole premise is that it's easier to go HT with a handgun then a long gun. Few of us want to go HTH yet several of us have in the course of our occupations. Going HTH with your handgun in a good holster is tough enough. It's definitely not recommended with your handgun in your hand.

If I can practice all day long and still not be prepared, how can you always strike your assailant in the solar plexus with the muzzle of your long gun?

I never said I always could, I said that those were options. My point is, that if you are untrained, it doesn't matter if you get into a HTH encounter with a handgun or a long gun, you are about as equally disadvantaged with each. If you have training, there is a lot you can do with a long gun.

No two fights are alike. You can try to prepare for every encounter you can conceive of and still come up with a fight you never expected to happen the way it came down.

Professionals choose long guns virtually every time they know they are going into a fight for good reason. If you are personally more comfortable with a handgun, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that's the right choice for everyone else.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Is an SBR an option?

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's better not to go investigating "bumps in the night" if you think there actually may be a BG there.

[1] You arm yourself. You investigate as best you can from a place of safety in house with your family. You wait and quietly listen. Does the sound repeat? Can you begin to identify it? Can you positively identify it as something innocuous? If the sound is clearly from outside, you look out nearby windows.

[2] If you can't identify the sound and believe there is a danger, you assure that your family and any known visitors are all together and with you in a place of safety. You call the police. You maintain telephone contact with the police. And you wait.

[3] You do not go anywhere to investigate, because --

(a) If you go looking, and there is indeed a BG there, you will be at an extreme tactical disadvantage. You can easily be ambushed or flanked. You may also have given a BG access to family members to use as hostages. Or there maybe more than one BG, one of whom can get to your family while you're occupied with the other one.

(b) When (whether you called them or they were called by a neighbor who may have also seen or heard something) the police respond, they don't know who you are. You are just someone with a weapon.

And here is an example of what can happen if you go investigating: http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.stabbing.burglary.2.851147.html. The BG was outnumbered. The BG brought a knife to a gunfight. The BG was on unfamiliar territory. But the BG also had a significant tactical advantage and won the fight.

Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas during the first six years of the NTI, one, and only one, competitor got through one of those six NTIs without being judged killed, and he was head of NASA security firearms training at the time. And one, and only one, made it through the seventh year. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters.

 

[22lr]

Grab my trusty S&W 5906 make sure rest of family is ok and wait. If noise repeats itself (and it sounds like a BG) id call the cops, then just wait it out. let the cops show up and do the shooting, then you get out of all that annoying paperwork and trials.