armoredman
Member
Mosin.
New home defense rifle needed.
- Thread starter Broken11b
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DMK
Member
dodge
Member
Get a 45/70 levergun. It's what will turn cover into concealment.
Hey ya'll. It was my house that had the incident. In a nutshell, a woman across the street was in the process of being assaulted in her car by a big guy with a tire iron. Luckily, before I had to intervene the police showed up and resolved the situation.
Talking with my friend Broken11b about the incident gave rise to the question of hardware and what would be best for that situation.
As mentioned we are both combat vets with more than sufficient training - to the poster that suggested that we get some training first. To those who said move... I've love to, in fact that's one of my goals in the near future, but seeing as how this is all that my wife and I can afford for now, we're pretty much stuck. However, I'm not really worried about the actual neighborhood, I've seen much worse.
Between my friend and I we have multiple 5.56x54, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, .308 and 12ga. weapons. We got to thinking that for a situation that required shooting through a vehicle that an additional piece of hardware might be better suited for that specific purpose.
Thanks for all the replies so far, keep the ideas coming.
Talking with my friend Broken11b about the incident gave rise to the question of hardware and what would be best for that situation.
As mentioned we are both combat vets with more than sufficient training - to the poster that suggested that we get some training first. To those who said move... I've love to, in fact that's one of my goals in the near future, but seeing as how this is all that my wife and I can afford for now, we're pretty much stuck. However, I'm not really worried about the actual neighborhood, I've seen much worse.
Between my friend and I we have multiple 5.56x54, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, .308 and 12ga. weapons. We got to thinking that for a situation that required shooting through a vehicle that an additional piece of hardware might be better suited for that specific purpose.
Thanks for all the replies so far, keep the ideas coming.
Zip06
Member
Let me see if I have this correct. You were thinking you could shoot through a car body, make a precision shot with people moving around inside the car body fighting?
paintballdude902
Member
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- 2,872
go ever either .357 or .30-30
i know for a fact a.30-30 will go through 1/4 inch steel
i know for a fact a.30-30 will go through 1/4 inch steel
Gord
Member
jimmy0622 said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at here; with 12-gauge and 54R already covered, what sort of additional gear do you think you're gonna need to shoot through a car, a 20mm autocannon?
There are easier ways to justify a new gun purchase to the wifey, dude.
Simple solution that no one's proposed yet: instead of fretting over what to buy to try and shoot somebody through a car (which are not uniformly constructed; how do you know your shot's not just going to deflect off something and hit your hapless victim in the face?), why not just grab the shotgun/handgun/whatever you already use for HD and hoof it out the door to confront the attacker from a more advantageous position? Perhaps not very tactically sound, but then neither is trying to pop a round into somebody (with innocent people nearby) through a vehicle.
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Not really looking to justify a new gun purchase to the wife, it's going to happen anyway 
just looking for a device to fill a specific niche. I do like the idea of an FAL or Garand as I do want to get a battle rifle. I just wanted to get some input on what platform would be suited for this specific situation.
just looking for a device to fill a specific niche. I do like the idea of an FAL or Garand as I do want to get a battle rifle. I just wanted to get some input on what platform would be suited for this specific situation.
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Al LaVodka
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He said they were experienced vets, not (brain) surgeons.
Luckily they have the art'y to take a car apart in defense of anybody in it and the whole neighborhood already, though something tells me the Block Watch should probably be a little more nervous since they were discharged...
Seriously, I'm sure this was only a theoretical, intellectual, and not a serious question in response to the specific situation that inspired it. Right? Right guys!?
Al
Luckily they have the art'y to take a car apart in defense of anybody in it and the whole neighborhood already, though something tells me the Block Watch should probably be a little more nervous since they were discharged...
Seriously, I'm sure this was only a theoretical, intellectual, and not a serious question in response to the specific situation that inspired it. Right? Right guys!?
Al
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Zerodefect
member
I can't recommend any round/rifle to take out the bad guy inside the car without splating the hostage as well. Lighting up a car is one thing, trying to miss someone on the inside is totally different.
Only way to do it is to run up to the car and shoot the bad guy at nearly point blank range. Any distance shooting, can't promise the bullet will fly straight after hitting the car. If you close enough and get just the right angle........maybe.
9mm will punch through a car easy. Cars are concealment, not cover.
5.56 xm193, I think thats the right round, will punch right through a car. Any decent 5.56 should perforate a car.
Only way to do it is to run up to the car and shoot the bad guy at nearly point blank range. Any distance shooting, can't promise the bullet will fly straight after hitting the car. If you close enough and get just the right angle........maybe.
9mm will punch through a car easy. Cars are concealment, not cover.
5.56 xm193, I think thats the right round, will punch right through a car. Any decent 5.56 should perforate a car.
ElToro
Member
DMK
Member
Even at point blank range, glass, metal and plastic can deflect a bullet. In a modern car, almost every surface is angled. There is no way you can guarantee an accurate shot into a car at any distance.
For a pistol 7.62x25 will do nicely. A TTC is cheap and very powerful. I do agree that shooing into a car with innocent people inside it is the wrong thing to do.
Heck get some of these
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/cPath/25_36/products_id/82
and go for the gas tank!
Heck get some of these
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/cPath/25_36/products_id/82
and go for the gas tank!
christcorp
Member
That is so stupid, and WE ALL know it is. If you or your friend try shooting at or through a car, you're going to jail, and that's the way it is. Robbers, muggers, etc... aren't going to get into a "Gun Fight" with you. And there's no way you're going to convince any court that your life was in danger, and that you had to shoot at/through a car. If they left your house, then you are no longer being threatened. And we have to believe we are talking about a home robbery, because you sure in hell aren't going to be walking around town with a rifle.
Another water-ski ; engine block thread. Luckily most of the anti-gun crowd doesn't read this forums. They'd have every right to think that gun owners all believe in zombies and are irresponsible.
1) I appreciate that it can be interesting to work out the best way to handle a particular kind of incident, but as a practical matter, this sounds pretty one-of-a-kind and you're locking the barn door after the departure of the horse.
2) You have plenty of firepower in the rifles mentioned. I think it's more of a choice-of-ammo question.
3) Although in many, if not most, places, it is legal to intervene to protect innocent life, I'm not sure that is going to cover opening up with a .308 on a guy without a firearm. If you feel the need to intervene, you are going to have to start with some non-lethal approach.
2) You have plenty of firepower in the rifles mentioned. I think it's more of a choice-of-ammo question.
3) Although in many, if not most, places, it is legal to intervene to protect innocent life, I'm not sure that is going to cover opening up with a .308 on a guy without a firearm. If you feel the need to intervene, you are going to have to start with some non-lethal approach.
He had an incident at his house, yet needed to hit a car body? What is wrong with this picture? Anyway, a 9 will go through a car door all day long. Car steel is very thin these days and even when it was heavier it woudl not be a problem. When we were kids we used to use .22's on junk car doors all the time and the always went right through.
Exactly right, this is a theoretical discussion about hardware, which is what B11b originally explained in the first post, and has since gotten off topic into tactics and common sense issues.
Also, the BG wasn't inside the vehicle he was outside with a tire iron, i had LOS on him, but if he had used the car as a shield and assuming taking out of the equation the danger to the victim. I believe it just comes down to a discussion about penetration. Those who have given that insight, your info is much appreciated.
Ignition Override
Member
As for trouble just outside your house:
The guy who runs the fishing pond supply shack here lives in a bad part of southeast Memphis (when I suggested moving, he said that the rental costs are very good...he might understand why).
He told me that three gangsta types (MS-13 wannabes) began to walk towards him in the day time, with anti-social facial expressions, and he pulled his AK clone from his truck. This grabbed their attention and they turned around.
The guy who runs the fishing pond supply shack here lives in a bad part of southeast Memphis (when I suggested moving, he said that the rental costs are very good...he might understand why).
He told me that three gangsta types (MS-13 wannabes) began to walk towards him in the day time, with anti-social facial expressions, and he pulled his AK clone from his truck. This grabbed their attention and they turned around.
Gord
Member
jimmy0622 said:
Pretty much. If this was supposed to be a theoretical, it was stillborn from the start. Any fullpower rifle cartridge will penetrate most (if not all) of a car, pretty much anything above 9mm power-wise will punch through sheetmetal, and chances of the shot going FUBAR are high no matter which way you cut it.
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Caliper_Mi
Member
Since you've got a stock of 7.62x54R already, I'm going to say use a PSL and load it up with steel core surplus rounds. The fact that you already have a bunch of ammo makes it an economical gun purchase!
They even tried this scenario here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot4.htm Three shots, three holes through and through.
Steel core, FMJ will keep the round together (as opposed to spalling and shrapnel potential from a HP or SP round) so less danger to bystanders.
Or is the hardware you are looking for not a weapon at all, but a way of accurately hitting a target you cannot see?
They even tried this scenario here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot4.htm Three shots, three holes through and through.
Steel core, FMJ will keep the round together (as opposed to spalling and shrapnel potential from a HP or SP round) so less danger to bystanders.
Or is the hardware you are looking for not a weapon at all, but a way of accurately hitting a target you cannot see?
My choices would be the following:
1) AK or SKS.
2) 12ga. smoothbore with rifle-sights. Loaded with slugs.
3) Marlin (or similar) in 30-30.
The 30-30, 7.62X39, and 12ga. slugs would all have more than enough penetration for your needs.
All of these are also relatively inexpensive.
1) AK or SKS.
2) 12ga. smoothbore with rifle-sights. Loaded with slugs.
3) Marlin (or similar) in 30-30.
The 30-30, 7.62X39, and 12ga. slugs would all have more than enough penetration for your needs.
All of these are also relatively inexpensive.
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