New job limits CCW... how to compromise?

[Devonai]

Update on situation

After getting the job, I learned that I was technically a sub-contractor. I am paid a "fee" and all taxes are my responsiblility. Next year I will receive a 1099 form instead of a W2 and I will have to make sure all state, federal and social security taxes are properly filed.

That being said, I carefully reviewed my employee contract, a copy on which I placed my John Hancock. There is absolutely nothing related to carrying a weapon while working for the company. It has been three weeks now since I joined up, and I dare say this is the best job I've ever had.

Today, one of my supervisors gave me a new radio and asked me to install it in my vehicle. While doing so I inadvertantly exposed a portion of my shoulder holster through the photographer's vest I was wearing. My super asked me if I was carrying, and being an honest man I said yes. He reiterated his company's objection to carrying on duty unless the situation required it.

I can expect a call from the owner of the company about this. I uam split over how to respond to it.

On the one hand, I can capitulate to any pressure not to carry unless specifically told to. On the other hand, I can stick to my guns (pun intended) and work the "philosophical life choice" angle and see what happens. Obviously I don't want to be fired, but I make no bones about whether or not I will be carrying a weapon while working.

If I did object, I would be relying on the excellent references my previous employers and my commanding officer gave me as proof that I was a mature, responsible individual. I would explain that carrying where ever legal was a lifestyle choice and not an arbitrary decision.

 

[Devonai]

So far, zip from my boss. I've decided not to carry on-person until this matter is resolved.

 

[Glamdring]

He reiterated his company's objection to carrying on duty unless the situation required it.

Agree with him, you only cary when situation requires. Leaving unstated that just happens to be 24/7. There is honesty and their is foolishness. If someone was mugging you and asked if you had a gun would you feel you HAD to tell them??? It is basic tactics for self defense and survival.

Unless you tell them you are carrying they won't know unless expose the gun or they search you. AFAIK they shouldn't have any legal justification to search you, since your a sub contractor and not even an employee.

As a contractor you get ZERO from your employer besides your wage.

 

[hops]

I wonder if it is a liability issue for the company contracting your services. If you do shoot, while technically on assignment, the aggrieved party could sue you and company contracting your services. It is not about justice, it's all about money.

If you were your own firm, that was being subcontracted, perhaps, there would be less of a liability to the firm contracting your firms service.

 

[XavierBreath]

A couple of thoughts.......Your state may vary.

As an employee or subcontractor, you are acting as your employer's agent. As such, if you should have to bring a weapon into play while on the job, he can be held liable. His rules, which you would violate if guns were not authorized release him from this liability however. (His "only certain neighborhoods" rule places him at risk if a gun is usedvwithin his rules though.) This is probably well and good enough in his mind. He just doesn't want to be liable if you kill someone, or are killed. See how he is trying to work it both ways?

Where I live, your car is considered an extension of your home. A company car, however, is an extension of the workplace. As such, you can have a legal firearm in your car, concealed or not. You cannot have the same in a comany car if your company forbids it. Also, if you enter another person's car with a concealed firearm, it is the same as entering their home with one. Here, you must inform them. At any rate, because your personal car is an extension of your home, your boss cannot dictate what you keep in it. Only the law can do that with gun free zones and such.

I have a job that takes me into bad neighborhoods. I carry a gun. My boss has never asked, and I never have brought it up. I would not do the job without the gun. Lives are hard to come by. Jobs aren't.

 

[Devonai]

I'm still kicking myself for letting my shoulder holster be seen. I need a vest with narrower arm-holes.

I did get a call from the owner of the company, who simply restated his case. I told him I was planning on going target shooting later that day (Saturday, a half day), and he was mollified. He asked me that if I was planning on doing so again, to leave the weapon unloaded and locked in the trunk. I will compromise by always doing so, regardless of whether a trip to the range is in the future or not.

So despite the fact that an unloaded weapon in the trunk is hardly going to save my butt in an attack, at least I can arm myself once I go off duty, which is valuable since I often find myself in bad neighborhoods just as the sun is going down. A quick trip to a public restroom or a sufficiently isolated corner of a parking lot is all I need to arm myself.

I am content not to carry on person while on duty for some very important reasons that I'd not considered before. One, what if the subject we're tailing goes into a controlled area? If I cannot gain entry because I'm armed, I've failed to do my job (which was my boss' main point). Also, there is a chance that we might cross the border into a state where I'm not licensed, which in my case includes ME, CT, and RI. I can get my non-resident permits, but that still does not remove the possibility of going to the airport, post office, or a courthouse.

This does leave one issue. Let's say I get pulled over for speeding in Maine, and all my bad luck hits me at once and the officer wants to search my vehicle. Am I going to get into trouble for having ammunition loaded into magazines (in the glove box), despite the fact that the weapon itself is locked and unloaded in the trunk? My research has not cleared up this distinction at all.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Gordy, if I were the employer, I would gladly offer a provision to employees be able to obtain their CHLs here in Texas, and encourage said employees to go to the range on a regular basis.

Then, I would have some very strict rules about carrying on the job and no doubt would fire the first idiot who is playing show and tell with firearms while on my clock. Unless there was some sort of security issue, there would be NO reason to see a gun unconcealed and out of a holster as near as I can tell (assuming I didn't own a gun shop of some sort).

ATK, the Miranda warning given by folks in different places varies depending on the locality and their interpretation of the law. Check out http://www.usconstitution.net/miranda.html and you can see two versions, one minimal and one expanded. Both basically say that you have the right to remain silent. At the moment you speak and while you speak, you are giving up that right to remain silent. The purpose of the Miranda Warning is to let you know that you don't have to answer the officers' questions and can legally remain silent. It also explains that you do have the right to legal counsel and that such will be provided if you can't afford it.

 

[benEzra]

Hypothetically, could an employer ever tell you that you couldn't carry a weapon while not at work, because they were philosophically opposed to it? Or that your spouse couldn't? How far does their authority go?