Would you ever draw your knife instead of your pistol?

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I think if it's a folder, unless it's Waved, or possibly a *really* intuitive auto, there is no point considering it for combat.

Personally, if I had a fixed and was surprised in a "Sleeper" or other chokehold, I would draw and use the knife to escape. That's the only situation I can think of.
 
What you might consider is being at a place where you expect a few strange people who have guns. Be it in a drug dealers area, in a bar with lots of criminals, or in the streets of Pakistan. If you start shooting there, chances are good some paranoid will shoot you because he thought you meant him. Even if you actaully shot in some other direction. In those places a knife can help you survive, and I would prefer a knife in such a case.

I know of a case where cops entered a bar full of crooks and a shoutout started. All three crooks dead, cops fine. BUT, the examiner pulled bullets from all dead crooks the were NOT from the cops guns. Another patron later went to the police with his attorny and claimed self defense. He wasn't crook nor cop, but feeled threatened and ended the whole thing.
 
OK, I didn't read all the posts, but I would only draw a knife - assuming I were carrying one in the first place - if I had shot to slide lock, the attacker were still coming at me and I had no place to run. Use of a knife is still deadly force. It is not an intermediate, less lethal or deescalation of force from using a gun. Moreover, using a knife requires that you be close enough to touch him with the blade. I can envision circumstances in which it might appear that you were the aggressor.
 
There are a lot of overconfident gunnies out there who are good shots in their backyard or a square range but couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Target shooting is not gun fighting, just like martial art tournament fighting has little to do with surviving violence in the real world. I'd wager that most of the people who are posting about "gun vs. knife" have no realistic training with either. Not that I'm an expert with either, it seems that people should be a bit more humble about what they type - inexperienced people read this stuff and that's how a lot of bad misinformation gets passed around.

No one should take seriously what they hear, instead they should keep it in mind while they go out and learn for themselves. This is especially true when it comes to fighting with guns and knives and bare hands. Serious training is much more important than guns and knives and bad advice from the internet, especially when the advice givers start speaking in absolutes.

Use of a knife is still deadly force. It is not an intermediate, less lethal or deescalation of force from using a gun.

Great point.
 
I've had extensive training in both. I've also been called on to use those skills. I don't place my opinion above others and I don't feel the need to disparage others either. Your post did nothing but say that nothing any of us say has any merit?? Thats total BS. Take everything for what its worth but I haven't heard you pipe in with anything of substance or value other than to say that no one else has that either. I tend to listen to all, rather than the one guy who is "too cool for the room". Until you can give us your credentials that put you so far ahead of us that we should all sit in a circle and listen to YOU, then I think I'll show everyone else the respect they are due.
 
I don't even think you can carry a knife in NJ. This state blows.

Where did you come up with that? Nothing in NJ 2C prohibits a knife outside of a switchblade or gravity knife.
 
I whip out my knife when I need to cut off some shrink wrap or tape. Damn .45 is just too loud for opening packages. Guess I should get one of them little .22's for that. Seriously though, I ALWAYS have my knife on me. It's small but I suppose its better than nothing at all. As a backup to a handgun tho in the case of a malfunction, i'd probably go for beating the person with the handgun.
 
The knife guards the gun hand when you're in tight quarters.

-And don't sneer at little knives. The most serious knife fighter that I've had to deal with normally used about one inch of a three-inch knife. I've also had to try to stop the bleeding on a couple of co-workers after a box-cutter fight. Please, never again.
 
I think we talk past one another on this issue because we say what *we* think a knife does well in a fight, but without discussing our own role.

For a LEO type who is following rules of engagement, or going about society open carrying, weapon retention is more of an eminent concern than your average CCW civilian with a well hidden sidearm.

For an assassin, spec ops, or "knife fighter," a knife is a tool with which to kill/maim the other person.

For someone who is not bound by duty to any particular rules of engagement, and whose objective is defense/E&E rather than kill/maim, a knife has more limited utility. Yes, it has a place as a last ditch weapon, but I kind of shake my head when someone says it's *more* useful in CQB than a firearm. COM shots via handgun can cause CNS shutdown immediately, or at least a lot faster than a knife wound will end the battle via blood loss.
 
Some states do not allow fixed blade or self opening blaeds to be carried as part of a ccw option. NC is one of them. And as long as it takes to open a folder ,no, it will be a cap spray if gun can not be used and the gun will more than likely still come out. Might have to be a contact shot but so would a knive.I do use a round that tyicaly does not penatrte to deeply. Same darn states don't allow zappers or stricking weapons. I would much rather have a 21 or 24" retractable batton.
 
Knife or Gun?

I hope I never have to, but if given the choice, I will draw the firearm. That being said, if I have to draw my weapon it is because I am given no other choice. The only way I will show my firearm is if lives are in imminent danger.
I love a good knife though.
 
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There is a difference in "run what you brung" (a member here says he has defended with a Case Peanut) in an emergency and putting careful consideration into optimal equipment. I think that a regular, non-waved folder, even one-handed or assisted opening, would be hard to quickly deploy in a CQB defensive scenario. I guess you could argue that there are people who are restricted from having Waved, auto, or fixed blades who should still consider a folder for that niche, but as others have suggested on this thread I really don't see it being a very reliable defensive weapon.
 
Sitting on the bus in a forward seat, guy behind me puts me in a stranglehold. Do I draw my gun and shoot behind me in his general direction where the rest of the passengers are sitting? Or do I draw my knife and cut his arm (the only part of him that I can positively see and place spatially)?

I'd go for my knife first.
 
"Would you ever draw your knife instead of your pistol?"

Yes, if the situation dictated it; probably a very short blade as that would be the situation I would most likely encounter. I have been known to use an 8 oz. hammer when I had a 2lb. sledge available.
 
Not generaly for a couple of reasons:

First is most places are rather restrictive concerning concealed fixed blades. A fixed blade can be employed immediately in a very smooth motion during a struggle, much easier than even a firearm. It will not get caught on any garments and only the motion to remove it and then deploy it are necessary to put it into use. When in use it will then not result in a bent blade (if well made) or a lock failing while encountering bone or force exerted on the blade from directions it was not made to handle.
Yet because thier use and especialy concealed carry is restricted in most of the nation, especialy those with decent length, they won't be available to most.

Folders, even impressive seeming ones are nowhere near as ideal as a fixed blade. They tend to require some additional movement to deploy as well. I have some nice folders and can deploy them rapidly all day long when my wrist can move and I can hold them in a loose grip. Certainly looks impressive and intimidating.
Once already in a struggle, possibly fending off another weapon being used against me is another story. That very simple flick of the wrist when rolling around on the ground is not as easy, especialy after retrieving it from a pocket while trying not to sustain injuries from someone using both hands and or a weapon to attack you.
Before an attack or in an offensive manner (aiding someone else I hope)? Sure, take half a second to remove and deploy. Once grappling? Not as easy.
The small amount of time it can take to retrieve it during a struggle can also be the brief second your opponent needs to gain the upper hand as well if they are relentless with no pauses.
Once deployed many folders are also only good at applying force from a couple angles. The locks can fail, resulting in trouble or even self inflicted injuries to your hand or fingers when encountering bone or violently moving muscle that applies force against the design of the blade.
The law also limits blade size to quite small many places.
Fine in skilled hands when targeting specific areas, especialy in demonstrations against people not fighting for thier lives or deploying a weapon themselves. However in an actual struggle resulting in grappling where the opponent is constantly trying to attack with a weapon or secure your weapon or weapon hand, slashing attacks are harder to deploy than stabbing attacks. Stabbing attacks against the least defended and most acessible parts of the opponent's body without at least a 5-7" blade are ususaly not going to reach vitals. So they may result in a lot of blood and gruesome looking wounds, but may not stop the fight of a determined or skilled opponent. There is many vulnerable areas to small blades, but they are far easier to attack in a dojo during training than against the thug beating you with a blunt object, stabbing you, or trying to free his firearm from your grasp, or get it pointed in your direction to fire.
They can be good for retention purposes with a firearm, allowing you to slash with your offhand at any limb extended your way. Yet if you are deploying deadly force, then the opponent probably is armed. If they are armed and continuing to come at you while you have a gun in your hand, slashing at them with a knife is probably not the ideal action.


So the law ususaly limits knives to folders, and usualy of lengths that are not ideal for stabbing attacks. Slashing attacks against someone putting up a good fight are not as easy as during training or demonstrations, and vulnerable positions harder to reach without receiving damage yourself.
If you are deploying deadly force I assume the opponent is armed, or there is a great disparity of force. If they are armed, especialy with a more effective illegal weapon (they are less likely to be following the law) than you, then be prepared to receive injuries if attacking with a short folder. Only a skilled individual will reliable disable an opponent with a short bladed folder. Unskilled will result in gruesome but ususaly survivable and not incapacitating wounds. People living with dozens of 3" stab wounds is quite common.
Even the unskilled can reliably inflict serious wounds stabbing with a long blade. The skilled can do so more effectively. But such blades are often illegal.
So if the law limits you to a short folder, expect to take some injury against an armed opponent before they are down, and then only if you know what you are doing.




The second reason I would rather not deploy a knife is society is less understanding of what they cannot relate to. Someone in fear of thier life pressing a button, or pulling a trigger is something even the housewife on the jury can ususaly relate to.
Repeatedly stabbing and slashing with blood flying everywhere while you systematicly tear down your opponent's body they cannot. Tearing your opponent apart with slashes from a short blade also takes more intentional thought and a mindset that sounds savage in a court room. Aiming COM and dropping an attacker takes far less thought and seems far less sinister and systematic.
You could stab someone dozens of times in a couple seconds if you are strong and quick, but in a court room dozens of stabbings sounds very excessive and unnecessary. Someone who has not been in a knife fight will not understand the amount of injury the human body can tolerate before it is incapacitated when seconds count and you need them stopped NOW.
As a result self defense with a firearm is far less likely to result in you being found guilty at trial than using a small knife is. A few rapid shots seems far less excessive than dozens of stab wounds. Even if you only did what was necessary to incapacitate and stop the attack.

Further it is also easier to use less force, back off and have the ability to use more if necessary with a firearm.
Using less with a blade than is necessary and backing off can then result in the tables turning and losing control of the fight. Yet in court that will not matter. If you use a blade, have control of the situation, and then cease the attack, and then the opponent uses that opportunity to take control of the situation it can result in your death.
Giving up your advantage in a knife fight that may not be over is much more serious than firing fewer shots, and then firing more if necessary.
If you do not give up your advantage after gaining control in a grapple involving weapons it will seem excessive in court, and much more likely to result in prison time for you.

So a gun is clearly better. Not just for effectiveness, but because in court it is cleaner and more jury members will be able to relate to its use in stopping a lethal threat. The soccer mom on the jury might have a harder time as the prosecutor describes the multiple stab wounds, the intentional thought and the graphic successively inflicted knife injuries. They will be less likely to understand the speed at which multiple knife wounds can inflicted than the speed at which a gun is fired.
The same self defense with a knife is much more likely to result in long prison time (and loss of your rights as a felon) than with a gun.
 
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Here's my EDC knife. . .

CRKT M16-13SFG

Since the serrations can actually be sharpened, unlike most serrated blades, it's clear to see this thing is designed to rip thru flesh with ease. :evil: It's nearly impossible for this folder to break... and if it did, at least it wouldn't be folding back on your finger tips; it'd have to break sideways. It's not too big, and with a full size handle and 3.5" blade... it's really just right for having on you at all times. And while it's not an automatic, the hilt/flipper design makes for super fast opening. It's the perfect knife, IMHO.

Still, tho... I can't imagine a situation where I'd pull even this knife out over a pistol. For defense, it's a backup and a backup only! Perhaps dual wielding a gun and knife would be a good idea, but it's still a backup. The rest of the time it's opening boxes, etc.
 
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I've been in both and I can attest to the fact neither one are pleasant. I carry a knife when hunting and except for my little swiss army knife I rarely carry a knife other wise. Given a choice I will take a gun fight over a knife any day of the week.
 
I'd rather take a knife fight than a collapsible baton fight where I don't have a collapsible baton. :eek:

:fire: Forget all that!! We're Off-Topic! :cuss:
 
"Would you ever draw your knife instead of your pistol?"


Yes, Elephant grass comes to mind.


Tinker2
 
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"Would you ever draw your knife instead of your pistol?"

Yes. In close quarter instances where drawing the firearm proves to be either impractical, unrealistic, or unachievable.

Next question: Would you ever use your hands instead of your pistol or knife?

Yes. In close quarters instances where... Follow the theme.
 
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