pbearperry
Member
I would pull my knife first if I wanted to cut rope.
Would you ever draw your knife instead of your pistol?
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Sheepdog1968
Member
If you are in a situation where you feel justified in drawing a knife, then you are likely in a situation justified in drawing a gun. Because of this, I (and I can only speak for myself) would be inclined to draw a gun. You will not have time to make a second draw. As it is, you will likely have a tough time even getting the first draw done. If the person is 21 feet away, they can run to you faster than you can draw. I have seen this done a number of times (with fake guns) by professional firearms instructors picking someone average from the class to drive home the point.
The only other thing I might consider is pepper spray. It's non lethal and I (my opinion) would be much less reluctant to draw it and use it.
The only other thing I might consider is pepper spray. It's non lethal and I (my opinion) would be much less reluctant to draw it and use it.
If you are involved in a hand to hand fight you may be fighting to keep control of your gun. The fight will be what it is and you can't say for sure that you will be able to draw and manipulate your firearm. It's easy to tell yourself that your situational awareness is such that you never let anyone inside your protective bubble that we all keep around us. But unless you never go into crowded places or always walk in pairs so someone is watching your back, you may wind up in a hand to hand fight. If that happens there is a very good change you won't be able to employ your firearm and you should have some kind of plan and training in weapons retention so that you can maintain control of it. A fixed blade knife carried where you can access it with your weak hand might be just the thing for this situation.
You aren't bringing a knife to a gunfight in that situation. If it was a gunfight, your wouldn't be grappling with your opponent. Keep in mind that when you carry a firearm, every altercation you are involved in is a potential gunfight. There is always at least one gun present...yours. You should know how to maintain control of it.
You aren't bringing a knife to a gunfight in that situation. If it was a gunfight, your wouldn't be grappling with your opponent. Keep in mind that when you carry a firearm, every altercation you are involved in is a potential gunfight. There is always at least one gun present...yours. You should know how to maintain control of it.
mljdeckard
Member
I should add, I would also do just as much to avoid a knife fight as I would to avoid a deadly force encounter in the first place. Even between knife-fighters who actually know what they are doing, blade fighting means you are up close and personal, you are going to get cut, and you have to make the other guy bleed faster. There is no such thing as a pretty knife fight.
If I ever had to use one, my only chance would be to catch the BG by surprise, meaning, something like I have lost my pistol, I have no rifle, and I am down. If he approaches, I can lunge to rip his femoral. I don't envision myself playing Steven Seagal on a street corner.
If I ever had to use one, my only chance would be to catch the BG by surprise, meaning, something like I have lost my pistol, I have no rifle, and I am down. If he approaches, I can lunge to rip his femoral. I don't envision myself playing Steven Seagal on a street corner.
if you are too close a gun is not your best answer. if someone has a knife and you have a gun in close distances, you are at a disadvantage. That is what the knife is for. Self defense when the attacker has closed in space. I keep a fold out remington knife. I can use it one handed easily.
If something were to happen in the water, where I was under water, or something along those lines... that would be the place to draw a knife. If I am correct, it's not really like the movies, with bad guys shooting at each other missing to the left and right. Under the water the sound is very bad for humans. So, in order to keep myself safe I would draw and use a knife under the water.
Inventive huh?
Inventive huh?
Deanimator
Member
In Ohio, it's a Concealed HANDGUN License (CHL). It doesn't authorize the carrying of other devices, be they knives or clubs. Any knife big enough to be useful for defense would be illegal for me to carry.
MisterMike
Member
I'm not a martial arts expert, and I suspect that in a serious altercation with a knife I'd be much more likely to come out of it maimed or dead than if I had employed my pistol. When I'm carrying a knife, it's for its utility as something other than a weapon. But, if I have one on me and the need were to present itself, I'd consider using it, along with other improvised weapons.
ezypikns
Member
If my firearm won't work......
I'll run away.
I'll run away.
I pulled a knife on a guy who was beating on his girlfriend against a car, in the street. I didn't have a pistol, but I did have a shotgun (just happened to be returning from a hunting trip). I figured it would be more safe than having to fire a shot and risk hitting her, I imagine I would do the same thing had I had a pistol.
The knife was a Buck Alpha Hunter, I came up behind him and pulled him off her with an arm around the neck and brandished the knife, he ran away, she was relatively okay, waited around for the police, evening was uneventful otherwise.
Maybe what I did wasn't the brightest and could have been done at a safer distance with a pistol, but it turned out okay in the end.
The knife was a Buck Alpha Hunter, I came up behind him and pulled him off her with an arm around the neck and brandished the knife, he ran away, she was relatively okay, waited around for the police, evening was uneventful otherwise.
Maybe what I did wasn't the brightest and could have been done at a safer distance with a pistol, but it turned out okay in the end.
Erik M
Member
I would prefer cs or pepperspray as opposed to a blade. the merits of the knifes utility purposes aside, I would not trust my ability to defend myself with it the same as I would with an offensive weapon that can incapacitate from a distance.
wolfram
Member
I prefer striking weapons for close encounters of the hand-to-hand kind. A slap-jack is my personal favorite. It is easily concealed and has a leather strap that wraps around the hand. It allows the user to match the level of force to the level of threat displayed by an adversary. For example, shooting or stabbing an obnoxious drunk may be rightly interpreted as too heavy a response.
Inducing shock with a single knife strike is not as easy as in the movies. Knocking someone silly with a slap-jack takes much less fighting skill. Knife wounds tend to produce lots of blood, making it difficult to exit the area discreetly after an altercation. Stabbing an attacker to death will be viewed badly by law enforcement in almost all cases.
Inducing shock with a single knife strike is not as easy as in the movies. Knocking someone silly with a slap-jack takes much less fighting skill. Knife wounds tend to produce lots of blood, making it difficult to exit the area discreetly after an altercation. Stabbing an attacker to death will be viewed badly by law enforcement in almost all cases.
orionengnr
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A "striking weapon" may very well be illegal as well. for instance, here in Texas, one may carry a pistol if one has a CHL, but even with a CHL one may not carry a "club", which includes most any striking weapon. Baseball bat, tire iron, ASP, etc...not legal, even with your CHL permit.
Bottom line: Know and obey your local laws.
Bottom line: Know and obey your local laws.
MedWheeler
Member
Draw a knife first?
Possibly, if caught in a hand-to-hand combat situation with an otherwise unarmed assailant. I believe in "escalation of force", in which, when threatened, one maintains a tactical advantage in weaponry over the threat's. Attacker unarmed? I'd prefer to counter with an impact, edged, chemical, or electric weapon, and an edged weapon is more often with me than any of the others. If my attacker is armed with anything beyond his hands, my counter goes up to my firearm.
Possibly, if caught in a hand-to-hand combat situation with an otherwise unarmed assailant. I believe in "escalation of force", in which, when threatened, one maintains a tactical advantage in weaponry over the threat's. Attacker unarmed? I'd prefer to counter with an impact, edged, chemical, or electric weapon, and an edged weapon is more often with me than any of the others. If my attacker is armed with anything beyond his hands, my counter goes up to my firearm.
bdickens
Member
I would definitely draw my knife first if I had to open a package.
Medwheeler, I hate to disagree with you but the "escalation of force" you talk about is a misnomer. You can only use deadly force if you feel your life is threatened. If you draw a knife when you have a firearm available you are effectively conceding that your life wasn't really in danger (at least you didn't feel it was or you would have drawn your firearm) yet you responded with deadly force. Secondly, in court the prosecution will say that YOU escalated the level of force because the person wasn't even armed and you took out a knife, considered a thugs weapon BTW, and callously stabbed him. You may be justified with a less than lethal weapon like the pepper spray, or the taser, but a knife? I don't think so .
Secondly, a civilian has no business trying to gear up like a cop. The taser, pepper spray, and such are going to buy you nothing but trouble it you ever have to use your weapon. Can you imagine in the civil and criminal cases the attorney's aren't going to argue that you shot the man when you have all these other options available to you? You are going to be obligated to use every level of force to try to stop the person threatening you instead of being able to use the most effective and immediate too to defend your life, the firearm. You attacker will have no such obligation. Police are protected by the law and policies that govern their us of force. Civilians don't have that protection.
I carry a knife and it is also an option for deadly force but its not something I would pull out before my firearm. If I'm justified to use deadly force, I would much rather use my firearm than my knife. The knife is primarily there as a tool. Or as a last ditch back up if my weapon failed or was taken away from me.
This is just a differing opinion, the readers can decide which they agree with.
Secondly, a civilian has no business trying to gear up like a cop. The taser, pepper spray, and such are going to buy you nothing but trouble it you ever have to use your weapon. Can you imagine in the civil and criminal cases the attorney's aren't going to argue that you shot the man when you have all these other options available to you? You are going to be obligated to use every level of force to try to stop the person threatening you instead of being able to use the most effective and immediate too to defend your life, the firearm. You attacker will have no such obligation. Police are protected by the law and policies that govern their us of force. Civilians don't have that protection.
This is going to be argued that you got it in a fist fight with a guy and YOU escalated the situation by stabbing him. I can almost guarantee you will go to prison for this one.
I carry a knife and it is also an option for deadly force but its not something I would pull out before my firearm. If I'm justified to use deadly force, I would much rather use my firearm than my knife. The knife is primarily there as a tool. Or as a last ditch back up if my weapon failed or was taken away from me.
This is just a differing opinion, the readers can decide which they agree with.
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Marlin 45 carbine
Member
not that I can see any reason for.
but I would draw both at same time for 'scare' effect.
but I would draw both at same time for 'scare' effect.
sidheshooter
Member
There is always an exception to a rule. I have trained with a few good "tactical" knife guys, and each one had me doing some eye-opening drills in scenarios taken from real-life altercations; elevators, getting grabbed from underneath a car while getting in, getting hemmed in by two "burly thugs" and "steered" away from the public, etc...
Probably the most interesting for gunfolk was the original Spyderco clip-it course offered by Erik Remmen. That guy will have you believing in carrying a small mousefolder on each side pretty quick with some demonstrations of the above scenarios. And, yes, weapon retention was a big part of the weekend.
It's another tool. It goes, as the mods say mindset, training and tools. A knife can be a great tool, if you know what it's good for. In trained hands in an elevator, it's hard to beat SHTF style.
Plus, knives are cheap, and the classes are cheap too, by comparison to a good shooting class. No reason not to be well-rounded, IMHO.
Other opinions might vary.
Probably the most interesting for gunfolk was the original Spyderco clip-it course offered by Erik Remmen. That guy will have you believing in carrying a small mousefolder on each side pretty quick with some demonstrations of the above scenarios. And, yes, weapon retention was a big part of the weekend.
It's another tool. It goes, as the mods say mindset, training and tools. A knife can be a great tool, if you know what it's good for. In trained hands in an elevator, it's hard to beat SHTF style.
Plus, knives are cheap, and the classes are cheap too, by comparison to a good shooting class. No reason not to be well-rounded, IMHO.
Other opinions might vary.
I think your points are valid if the argument was the value of the knife as a defensive weapon. The question here is, would you use it INSTEAD of the firearm you have on your side. Some people would argue that a knife at very close range is more effective than a firearm. But most stabbing that result in a "stop" are with either VERY large knives or more commonly multiple stab wounds, likely dozens of them. I work in a prison where stab wounds and cuts with "knives" are common. Most of the guys, even with multiple and even serious stab wounds are fighting until we break them up and usually walk themselves to medical. No sir, I'll NEVER take a knife over my 9mm. I've seen first had just how effective a small knife can be.
Give my my K-Bar, and thats another story.
Give my my K-Bar, and thats another story.
sidheshooter
Member
Good food for thought.
After a few months of training in a pretty serious family system of Kali, I learned enough to know how dangerous a knife can be at close range, for everyone involved. If I was at very close range I'd take a knife over a gun in most circumstances. The knife doesn't run out of bullets, and it's much harder to grab or pass because...well it's made out of razor sharp steel, while a handgun is made out of smooth corners and is only dangerous in one direction.
My instructor taught me that nothing is anything all of the time, meaning that there is a time and place for everything.
It doesn't take a "big knife" to be "useful for defense", only one designed properly.
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=237
My instructor taught me that nothing is anything all of the time, meaning that there is a time and place for everything.
It doesn't take a "big knife" to be "useful for defense", only one designed properly.
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=237
I"m sorry, but I can't take a knife with a 2 inch blade seriously for defense. I know some of you have been trained to use a knife but its effectiveness in comparison to a firearm is a joke. A blade is a blade. Just because its a fancy "Spyderco" and you've had a class or two won't make it effective. ITs still and itty bitty knife.
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