Newb to hand loading: Charging a round?

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Once again thanks to all I feel like I'm understanding more thanks for all this advice and mindful explanations. I've been reading the basic reload manual for usa powders see pic. I highlighted some parts saying that 5.9 is the proper charge for hp38 and a 200gr bullet. Keep in mind at first I'll be doing paper target shooting and would rather start with lighter loads. The manual says 5.9 for 200 gr jhp but I'm using 185gr round nose. image_1.jpg
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Because I'm using 185gr bullet should I follow the JHP protocol? This is the info for bullets being used.
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Yes.

Also, the data shown from your photo only shows one charge weight.
That means it is the Max allowable load.

You should reduce that by 10% for the safe Starting load, and work up from there.

rc
 
You need to get the bullet weight right before you start reloading.

The Devil is in the little minor details like that!!!

rc
 
Yes I know its very embarrassing its 185gr hollow base round nose Berrys. I messed that up from post #1 and im Sorry and feeling stupid as hell. Im definitely rushing into this and you all are right but I learned a lot tonight for damn sure. In addition I had no intention to take my two SA 1911s out to shoot questionable reloads though I just trying to wrap my head around the whole reloading thing in a hurry.I also have ALOT of brass built up from 5 years of shooting 40 pounds worth that are annoying my GF in my apartment. I went in to a big box store just yesterday and bought the press, dies, bullets, primers, books, and scrambled to find powder all in the last day so im really kind over excited too get crackin. Ill just stop this point a take a breath. HmmmmmmAhhhhh!
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Grim Peeper said:
Yes I know its very embarrassing its 185gr hollow base round nose Berrys. I messed that up from post #1 and im Sorry and feeling stupid as hell. Im definitely rushing into this and you all are right but I learned a lot tonight for damn sure. In addition I had no intention to take my two SA 1911s out to shoot questionable reloads though I just trying to wrap my head around the whole reloading thing in a hurry.I also have ALOT of brass built up from 5 years of shooting 40 pounds worth that are annoying my GF in my apartment. I went in to a big box store just yesterday and bought the press, dies, bullets, primers, books, and scrambled to find powder all in the last day so im really kind over excited too get crackin. Ill just stop this point a take a breath. HmmmmmmAhhhhh!
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Don't feel stupid, you are doing the right thing by coming here and asking! I can
Remember how excited I was to start reloading, you just have to make yourself slow down sometimes.

Welcome to the THR reloading forum, btw. I learned a ton here in the last seven years or so, you will too.
 
Thanks man that makes me feel better! Ive been on this forum since day #2 and I started asking stupid questions then but these are simply my first stupid reloading questions lol. Best forum ever I can still remember my first dumb 1911 inquiries. My obcession with 1911s and 45acp have taken a downward spiral pattern as you can see. :) bless you all for your help maybe one day I can contribute as well as those whom have help me. As you can see I am beyond help. Lol love it
 
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Lee makes a device which tells the weight of 99% of the powders made according to the spoons used, EX. for HP-38, there are 15 spoons ranging from .30CC to 4.30CC. The device gives the weight of that powder in each spoon.
 
Grim Peeper said:
Correct I'm sorry man I should have mentioned that. I'm looking at the chart that is directly on the front label. It doesn't really matter what Lee recommends because this the only powder I could find, the clerk said it was a good powder. The label recommendations are that for a 185gr bullet to use a 5.6 charge I'm using 200gr Berry's bullets so a charge of 6 should be good but I'm going to do some readings and forum surfing first. I may alter my spoon and shave the top down to deliver a 6 charge.
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Please don't do the whole ask the gun counter guy - reload on his advice thing. That is a recipe for disaster as much as loading too much or too little powder. Sounds like this time you got lucky and they steered you right, but more often than you can imagine the clerk doesn't know smokeless from black powder. Please verify what your doing, what your buying, what your using...be anal. Be more than anal. We will throw advice your way, and there are some truly great folks on here who will bend over backwards to help you to not get hurt. I don't want to come across harsh or anything of the sort, but until you get a better handle on things you need to put your new toys away and read how to use them. I know it's exciting, and I have trouble too at times, but with this hobby you can literally detonate a gun killing or injuring you or those around you.

Let's start with this, What town do you live in or near. Maybe we have somebody close who can give you a crash course.
 
Grim Peeper,

I notice the loading manual pages you showed are for jacketed bullets. The Berry's bullets are plated, I think, and plated bullets generally are best used with load recipes for cast lead. As I understand it, Berry's bullets generally have a heavier plating, so maybe can use charges closer to jacketed.

Look at load data for both lead and jacketed of the same weight and see if there is an overlap in the charge weights. Staying within that overlap is as sure to be safe as anything.

Loading is not an exact science. Be aware of where approximations are OK to use and where they are not. Interpolations are ok. Extrapolations are riskier.

Good luck

Lost Sheep
 
And before you start loading and shooting your own loads, learn what to look for as far as pressure signs on your brass. Learn the steps to load, learn how to do each step, learn how to inspect brass for problems, load a few rounds, try your rounds out before making more than 15 or 20. WATCH YOUR PRIMERS.
 
Hodgdons Web site
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
They list start and Max charges.
The start charge will function most firearms fine.
It is called the start charge because it is where you should start! :)
In a semi auto if you have stovepipes or failures to eject increase the charge to make the gun function.

Looking different places with a 185 gr bullet I see ranges of 5 to 5.9 max.
You usually will find that somewhere between 5 and 5.9 will be a sweet spot where the loads are more accurate. Pure guess but probably somewhere around 5.3-5.5.

Lee lists a VMD of .0926 for HP38.
(different lots will vary slightly from this number but it is close)
So time for a little math.:evil:

Charge weight in grains * VMD = cc. (size of scoop)
CC/VMD= Charge weight in grains.

You could work backward and get the VMD for a powder (actual VMD for your powder which may vary from the listed number)

By taking a cc volume, say your .7cc scoop.
Take about 5 scoops and weigh. Divide the weight by 5.
So each scoop weighs X.

VMD=CC/Weight

Lets say the .7 scoop gives you 7.58 grains (7.6 is close enough)(to much for .45 APC don't load this just using it as and example)
So .7 scoop/7.6 grs = .0921 VMD

So for HP38
5 gr * .0921 = .46 cc
5.25gr * .0921 = .48 cc
5.5 gr * .0921 = .5cc

So you ask why all the mumbo jumbo when you have 1 .7cc scoop.
It give you and idea of where you need to be. In your case it would make life easier if you had the .5 cc scoop.

But as suggested earlier you could take your .7 scoop.
Fill it about a third full with clay/playdough/wax and see where that gets you. To heavy add more filler, to light take out some filler.

The .5 scoop is probably a hair more than you want, but it is closer and I might have a spare I could send you (will have to dig thru my stuff in my backyard reloading shed tomorrow and see).
If your interested PM me your address and if I have one I will send it to you.

The set comes with .3, .5, .7 and a bunch of bigger ones so it dosen't really help you a lot.
You could buy a Lee Perfect Powder measure they are about $25. It needs to be hooked down to a piece of wood with two screws.

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/540522/lee-perfect-powder-measure

Usually Home Depot or Lowes / lumber stores have some small scrap pieces of wood that they will give you or sell to you really cheap. A foot long piece of 2*4 , 2*6 etc would work.
This would let you dial in the charge to .1 gr.
They are simple to use. They have a little screw type thing that adjusts the volume (cc size). Once you have it set you can load and only weigh say every 10th charge once you become used to the process.
 
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Another suggestion: Buy a copy of The ABC's of Reloading. It's a good resource that goes into the whys and whats of reloading: Why to pick a particular powder, why they are different, what happens when you use the wrong powder, or too much (or too little) and a lot more. I've been reloading about 50 years and I still find things that I don't know, don't remember, or don't understand. That book still gets used by me. It's available from Amazon.

And remember too, there are no stupid questions. The failure to ask a question or understand the answer, however, can result in a blown up gun. Be sure what you're doing and understand why you are doing it. It's not difficult but you need to be sure you stay within safe parameters.
 
Im definately going to take my time now as per the advice I recieved and I don't want to explode my 1911s and I want to find the right round and load for my pistols which are both 5 inch barrel SA milspecs. Thank you all for this help and keep it coming. Kentucky Im in NW DE and my uncle is a reloader but I haven't really spoke to him in a few weeks but this will be a perfect opporntunity to reunite. If I complete a few rounds I feel comfy at about 5.0 grains but now Im a bit shaken. Hehehe this is a good thing and Ive learned a ton just tonight guys for sure!!!. For now Im going to see if I can aquire more info and knowledge and see where it takes me. However by all means please keep the advice flowing and im thinking that a 5.0 grain or less charge is OK but I will most likely not shoot any reloads for a good long time to think about it and at least wait for some well placed advice like I got tonight.
 
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I'm not a 45 loader do I won't venture any opinions on what your load is. What I will say is that you can load absolutely as light as you want to in an autoloader, just the same as with a revolver BUT in both cases the second that you have a really weak round, a failure to operate slide (auto only) or you can't see a new hole in a target you have to check your bore. A bullet that sticks in the barrel is called a squib, and if another bullet hits it then it will very likely damage the gun, often times the operator too. At least with light loads you have that "something ain't right" moment to sort it out and clear your barrel. If you go the other direction and overcharge, you may never know what happens when the hammer falls and the gun detonates. If there's ever any question on charging, go low then work up.
 
Unless you go really low, (probably < 3 gr of HP 38) the worst thing that can happen is a failure to eject.

Make a mental note to your self right now though. If you get a failure to eject ALWAYS check to make sure the barrel is clear.

A case with no powder and just a primer is enough to stick a bullet in the barrel. (don't ask how I know this :eek: )

If by chance this should happen do NOT try to shoot it out.
Squirt some gun oil down the barrel and drive it out with a brass rod which ever direction is shortest. (Usually towards the chamber)


Oppsss WestKentucky beat me to this while I was typing:p

5 is the start, starting there is a good plan. You might find it a little light. You will probably end up likeing something in the middle maybe about 5.4 with 185s.
I use 5 with plated 230s and it is a bit above the middle of the range. Also works well 200 lead, dead in the middle for 200 lead.
Remember OAL is important. Sometimes with 1911s you need to adjust this for proper feeding.
Do the "plunk" test to make sure they are not to long.

PS: I have a Lee perfect powder measure and they work well. HP38 meters great. (meters meaning works well in powder measures)
 
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Lee makes a device which tells the weight of 99% of the powders made according to the spoons used, EX. for HP-38, there are 15 spoons ranging from .30CC to 4.30CC. The device gives the weight of that powder in each spoon.
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No, it actually doesn't tell you the weight for each dipper. (Not spoon.)

CC is a measure of volume, not weight.

You can have two cans of the same powder from different lots, and weight per volume measurement will not be the same.
Or sometimes even close.

Smokeless powder can be measured by volume with dippers, or a powder measure.

But you really don't know what grain weight you are dipping without an accurate grain scale to weigh it accurately in grains.

(Which is a weight measurement.)

rc
 
Ahh took me a minute to find it.

Plunk test Thanks to Walkalong!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

(weight per volume measurement = VMD)
And yes it does vary. Also some of the VMDs Lee lists are close some are not.
They list Unique as .1092. Both of the cans I had from different lots were closer to .132. (they varied a bit)
 
Man I took a look at that thread and I have to admit that I have no real idea about whats its about and Im getting very nervous all of sudden to feed my reloads through any of my 1911 pistols. I do howver have some good calipers and can do some measurements on the cartridges I make so thanks it def food for thought.
 
Plunk is easy. Take the barrel out. Drop the round in. Look at the pictures. If its to long the end of the case will be high, the bullet will need to be seated a little deeper. To far in is not good either.
Some guns will need some bullets seated deeper. No big deal you just need to find a good OAL for that bullet type once.
BDS has a Sig that needs RMR 230ss seated at 1.2. They are fine in my Citadel at 1.23 so pistols vary.
(Both my 45s love the RMR 230 "thick plates" with either 4.7 or 5 gr of HP38, RMR are good people and offer THR members a 5% discount, I have also had good luck with Missouri Bullet Company bullets, they offer a 5% discount as well)


Don't freak, it's not rocket science. I have loaded 10000+ and have not blown myself up. (yet) :D If I can do almost anyone can!

Did you weigh the charges? Is the OAL the same as or longer than whats listed for the load data? If yes and yes you are good to go! (assuming they plunk)
Wear your safety glasses take a deep breath, and shoot that first one, the 2nd 3rd 4th....and the rest come a lot easier than the first.


If no or maybe or your not sure, pull the bullets and start over. ( If you don't have a bullet puller I reccomend you buy one, the hammer type work fine, about $16)


OK I will admit there was some pucker factor before I shot the very first one. I think most people here would say the same.

Your in the the right place, there are lots great people here.
Just in case you don't know HP38 and Winchester 231 are the same-exact same powder. So you can use 231 data as well. There are a few powders out there that have different names but are the same. Some have close to the same name but are not the same.
rcmodel has a list here someplace, but you can worry about that later.

.45 ACP is an easy place to start, HP38 is a great powder.
 
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Now that you have a scale, there's nothing special about Lee dippers. You can use anything you have laying around the house to make a dipper to the size you want. An empty 22LR case would be pretty ideal for HP38. Just attach a handle and trim to size.

Personally, I think you will find anywhere from 5.0 grains to 5.8 grains of HP8 will shoot fine and cycle your gun with a 185 gr Berry's. If you want to go higher than that, work up in .2-.3 grain increments, max.
 
Grim Peeper said:
Man I took a look at that thread and I have to admit that I have no real idea about whats its about and Im getting very nervous all of sudden to feed my reloads through any of my 1911 pistols. I do howver have some good calipers and can do some measurements on the cartridges I make so thanks it def food for thought.
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No need to be nervous.

Load one absolutely perfect round with no primer and no powder. (Dummy round) Bullet at the right depth, taper crimp such that the bullet drops into the chamber (remove the barrel from your gun and let gravity chamber the bullet - this is the "plunk test") and let gravity drop the bullet out when you turn the barrel upright. Keep this perfect bullet as a model against which to compare all your subsequent production.

Bonus step: Put this round in a magazine and run it through your (reassembled) gun a couple of times and measure the length. It should not have been driven any deeper into the case (sometimes happens when the round hits the feed ramp).

When you can produce a perfect dummy round, feel comfortable with proceeding.

Then load one with a primer (fully seated, which means the base of the primer will be ever so slightly below the base of the case) and a weighed charge of propellant powder.

Put that round into a magazine and follow it with two factory rounds of the same weight and approximate power level. Fire the three rounds and note if the recoil is significantly more or less than the factory rounds.

Your confidence level should rise significantly.

From your posts, I believe you are understanding the process and the factors that influence the risks and performance very well. You will do fine.

Reloading is not rocket science (although it does involve smoke and flame and things that happen very fast). The ballistics labs have taken almost all of the guesswork out of it. If you can change a tire without losing your lug nuts and bake a cake without distaste, you can reload safely and confidently.

Lost Sheep
 
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