Newb to hand loading: Charging a round?

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If you have the Frankford scale make sure it has fresh batteries, mine goes a little nuts when it's batteries get low.

Just in case your wondering, (people do) weighing loaded rounds to try to figure out the powder charge won't work. The brass (and bullets) vary.
For fun weigh some different brand empties. I will bet you see 4 or 5 grs or more difference. The bullets will probably vary less than the brass does.
 
Grim Peeper said:
Man I took a look at that thread and I have to admit that I have no real idea about whats its about and Im getting very nervous all of sudden to feed my reloads through any of my 1911 pistols. I do howver have some good calipers and can do some measurements on the cartridges I make so thanks it def food for thought.
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Headspace.

Making sure your cartridge's base is just close enough to the breech for good ignition and good sealing of your chamber, but not so close as to make closing the chamber difficult.

There is a ledge at the front of the chamber, just where the rifling starts. The mouth of your case should rest against that ledge. Hitting that ledge causes the rear of the case to be pressed against the breech (and the firing pin).

Not close enough (too much headspace) and the firing pin will not strike the primer well enough. Too little headspace and the base of the cartridge protrudes from the chamber and will not allow the slide to close all the way (which will result in an out-of-batttery condition). If the slide is far enough out of battery, the disconnecter will not allow the hammer to fall. The danger is that if the slide is onlly a little out of battery, you MAY be able to ignite the primer with the slide out of position, the brass of the cartridge not fully supported by steel and some dangerous venting.

The good news is that you can see all this safely by gently cycling your rounds through your pistol. An out-of battery condition will be readily apparent.

Revolvers headspace on the rim. Very simple. ;)

Bottlenecked rifle cartridges headspace on the shoulder. If you think ACP cartridges are complex, you ain't see nothin' yet.:eek: Count your blessings.:D

Lost Sheep
 
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Dudedog said:
If you have the Frankford scale make sure it has fresh batteries, mine goes a little nuts when it's batteries get low.
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And keep electronic scales away from electrical devices like electric motors and flourescent lights or transformers, etc. More expensive scales have better shielding, but electromagnetic emanations can wreak as much havoc with electronic scales as drafts do to balance-beam scales.

Pardon me. My prejudices are showing. I trust gravity.

Lost Sheep
 
I have a 5-0-5 as well. Check weights, and a Gem 20. Nice to see the scales agree with each other. (and the weights)

Balance beam works great as long as the small black hole that things disappear into under my car seat dosen't mess it up. Got to keep it away from the car. :)
 
Thanks guys I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all that vmd and cc stuff. Arb its getting late ooor early... anyhoo thanks Im sure I'll have many dumb ?s tomorrow. So the min = 5.0 and the max = 5.9 is there any reason not to trust this? All my Thanks to all of you and also Dudedog that reload data website was very helpful now and in future. Thank you sir.
 
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Forget about that dipper. Just toss it out. It seems to be the source of a lot of your confusion. In addition to a more suitable scale, go get yourself a real powder measure. Lee's inexpensive PefectPowderMeasure works just fine for me.
 
After I read every manual out there I lived on forums and youtube and pieced everything together before I ever thought about loading that first round. Write everything down and keep serious records of everything you do and keep a detailed reloading log. I too was very confused by all the data, etc. that I was trying to consume as fast as I could at first but before you know it, everything will fall into place and the confusion will turn to enjoyment and even relaxation as you advance through the process.

Youtube is a great source for visual information and for reference to unlimited instruction. Just being to be able to "see" it being done was way more beneficial than reading and then trying to interpret what I had just read. It doesn't take long to set up a nice library of hours of beneficial videos from respectable and experienced reloaders covering every single aspect of the hobby.

I don't know how many times I said the myself after watching a youtube video "Oh, that's what the manual was telling me, now I understand."
 
So the min = 5.0 and the max = 5.9 is there any reason not to trust this?
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Sounds reasonable for the Berrys 185 Gr HBRN, although I would most likely not go all the way to 5.9. I bet you find a nice comfortable, accurate, and fun load before you get to 5.9 Grs.

5.0 Grs of HP-38 will work with any 185 to 230 Gr .45 ACP bullet loaded to a reasonable (Not too short) OAL. (OverAll Length of the finished round) I have shot many .45 ACP rounds loaded with 5.0 Grs of W-231 (Same thing as HP-38)

That Berrys bullet is a good one. It is accurate and will feed in anything.

Forget the plunk test for now, and load it to 1.265 OAL. There will be a little variation, so expect up to a .005 swing in the OAL of the loaded rounds when measuring. The better the seater plug fits the bullet the less this variation will be.

To sum it up. You picked an easy caliber to start with, bought some good bullets, the counter guy did very well to suggest HP-38 to you, and you were smart enough to come ask questions.

Your doing just fine so far, even if you are getting in a bit of a hurry in your excitement.

And buy that reloading manual. It has a wealth of needed information.
 
OK I'm going to continue to research but as of now it seems that for my 185 Berry's I'll begin to experiment with a 5-5.5 gr loads of hp-38 at a OAL of 1.265 as a good round for a 1911. I will write this in my shooting log as a good possible starting point.
 
Hope I didn't make things more confusing. Sorry.
VMD and cc are just a means to the end if you are using dippers or the Lee disk measure. I do use the disk measure so I am used to thinking about cc+vmds. (The perfect Powder Measure does not use the disks.) All you really care about is the weight of the charge. In general it dosen't really matter how much space the charge takes up as long as it fits in the case. With HP38 and .45 APC you will not have any issues.

I don't know if you have to drive someplace to shoot or can walk out your back door and shoot. If it takes some time to get to where you have to shoot I would load some a 5gr, some about 5.2 and some about 5.4.
(these don't need to be exact on the steps 5.3, 5.5 would work as well) (The Lee perfect powder measure would make this easy to do)

Here is a thread about different ways to mark them.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=774423


I like to take different color sharpies (permanent markers of some flavor) and color the bottom of the case when I am working on a developing a load. I then make a note as to whats what.
For example green =5, blue = 5.2, black = 5.4 That way if they some how get mixed up you can tell which is which. Shoot the 5s first, then work your way up. Bet you will like the lower end of the scale, they will shoot softer than factory ammo, but you may want "full power loads" so those are going to be at the higher end of the charge range.

As always, Walkalong has given some great advice.

I'm guessing you will be really happy with your HP38 reloads.


Note: MEHavey was showing data for 200s and you have 185s. You will be safe using data for a heavier bullet with a lighter bullet but not the other way around. Remember Heavier bullet = LESS powder. :)
Also remember never start at the MAX charge. Some companies, Alliant for example, only show the MAX charge on their web site. Nothing wrong with this you just reduce the max by 10% to start.

Be safe, enjoy and please let us know how it goes.
 
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I wish I could just step outside and test a new round unfortunately I live in condos in a town. One day I hope to have my own range.
 
I know that feeling it is about a 2 1/2 round trip driving time for me to get to a outdoor range where I can shoot.

I dream about retireing and having a place where I can walk out on the back porch and shoot.

Actually I dream about living long enough to retire! :D
 
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Ok well at this point I have a couple hundred rounds primed, sized, flared and I feel that I have about a half a clue about charging and the only part I haven't looked into is setting the correct depth for the seating die it seems that setting depth is pretty important. I wish with this loader I had a couple quick change collets so I didn't have to reinvent the wheel each time looks like ebay time for me. I also bought the 3 die sets so I maybe missing a crimp die but from what I heard it's not absolutely necessary or is it somthing I should get?
 
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I like the Lee lock rings ok, but I don't normally remove my dies from my turrent heads once I have them set.(Lee turrent press) They can move when you remove the die if your not careful. If your hand press uses bushings that sounds like the way to go. Midway, FS Reloading, Amazon and others, have the Bushings and the Perfect powder measure. (check around and see who has the cheapest shipping) I know the measure is $25 but it will make life a lot easier for you. Not sure on the hand press but if it does not use bushings, RCBS and Hornady lock rings have a set screw you can tighten so the ring won't move when removing the die.

Midway is giving new customers $5 off a $25 dollar order.

OK, been going on about the powder measure, sorry. :eek: You could make up dippers for what you need, but I bet if you are using a dipper you will think the measure is the greatest thing since sliced bread if you want different charges.

PS: Did anybody warn you that reloading equipment is a bottomless money pit? That is an often over looked danger of our hobby! :D
 
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Ha yeah I can see that! Luckily I got my tax check recently. I just tell myself once I have then I'll have it buuuuuut there's always somthing else. What's your thought on not having the crimp die? Will the seater sit the round well enough that I won't need it?
 
People tend to like the FCD or hate it. I happen to like it but it is not in any way necessary.

I think you have all the equipment you need except for maybe a bullet puller and a better way to measure powder.

Since you have that nice check coming :p I will make a suggestion to help you spend more of it!
(My poor broke Uncle Sam wants more money from me:, glad you got some back, I have heard rumors of this happening to people it just never seems to happen to me. Refund, what is refund?, not familiar with that term :eek:)

How are you priming? Are you priming on the press? Not sure how priming works on that press. If you have to pick up each primer you might really like the Lee hand priming tool. Be aware that it needs its own special shell holder though. You dump all the primers in and don't have to mess with trying to pick the little things up.


Lets see, if we get you up to $100 not counting shipping Midway will give you $15 off for a new customer. :evil: :evil:
 
Yes I'm poor that's why I get a refund. The lee hand loader came with a primer installing tool and it works rather well It was one of the easiest steps so far. I am tempted to try to seat a round so I can find the sweet spot for it I measured some Winchester and other lead ammo I had laying around and the overall length was much shorter than 1.265 it was like 1.22 for the lead and I found some ammo that was longer. What is the general excepted range for bullet length in 45ACP?
 
Cartridge length is important for two things. Outside length and inside length.

Outside length (base of cartridge case to the nose of the bullet) is imprtant because if it is too long the cartridge will not fit in your magazine or feed up the feed ramp into the chamber. Likewise, too short and it may hang up during feeding.

Inside length (or, more to the point, inside volume) is directly related to the outside length. That is, Outside length minus bullet length (nose of the slug/bullet to the base of the slug) minus thickness of the web. Difficult to measure directly. Too short and you elevate pressure, possibly to dangerous levels. Decreasing the volume increases pressure super-proportionately.

It does not matter if you loaded the round too short or if it became too short by handling or by getting hit by the feed ramp. Too short when it is fired is too short for safety.

If the case grips (friction) the bullet tightly, you will be fine. Feed a few through your action and measure for setbsck (shortening) or simply take a round in your hand and press as hard as you can against your loading bench. If you put about 50 lbs force on the bullet and it does not move, that is sufficient. (I got the 50 lb figure from Iowegan, a gunsmith and contributor and moderator at RugerForum.net. Iowegan has been at this a LOOOONG time and well-respected.)

Lost Sheep
 
Lee's FCD (Factory Crimp Die)

Lee's FCD (Factory Crimp Die)

Note that there are two FCD designs. The design for bottlenecked (usually rifle) cases is completely different from the design for straight-walled (usually handgun) cases.

You can use a regular combination seat-crimp die to perform seating and crimping in two separate operations.

To seat only: Back the die body out of the press until no crimp is applied. Adjust the seating stem accordingly. Use the die adjusted this way to seat the bullet. Friction will hold it in place.

To crimp only: Back the seating stem out of the die (even remove completely if you want) so it will not be able to contact the nose of the bullet. Adjust the die body to provide the desired crimp.

The advantage of this way of seating and crimping separately is that the crimp is applied on a stationary bullet, preventing the case mouth from gouging into the sides of the bullet. This is not usually a problem with taper-crimped cartridges, but some people see value in it (including me).

The Lee FCD (unlike the other crimp-only dies from other makers) does one other thing that is the source of most of the problems and objections. It sizes the finished round (I call it "post-sizing").

The purpose of the post sizing is to ensure that any bulge introduced by the bullet squeezing into the case will be "ironed out". This ensures reliable feeding of the finished rounds. The problem is, though, that the brass is more elastic than lead and the case mouth springs back after the post-sizing and the bullet does not spring back as much (especially cast lead bullets - jacketed bullets are less affected than cast lead). The difference n the amount of springback loosens the grip of the case mouth on the bullet.

Go to Lee's web site's FAQ section for their explanation.

Go to these threads for more discussion

One thread contains a lively discussion of the FCD and the function of the post-sizing carbide ring in the FCD. The phrase "9mm" is in the thread title, but don't let that dissuade you. It contains responses direct from Lee Precision, too. Read the whole thing. It is worth it.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465091

this thread contains a poll

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465603

I started these four threads (on my four favorite sites) with the same title because the subject seemed to beg a thorough and cool-headed discussion.


The Virtue and the Vice
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509934
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691050
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=168362
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/65863-lee-fcd-pistol-not-rifle-virtue-vice.html#post814465
 
Grim Peeper said:
Ok well at this point I have a couple hundred rounds primed, sized, flared and I feel that I have about a half a clue about charging and the only part I haven't looked into is setting the correct depth for the seating die it seems that setting depth is pretty important. I wish with this loader I had a couple quick change collets so I didn't have to reinvent the wheel each time looks like ebay time for me. I also bought the 3 die sets so I maybe missing a crimp die but from what I heard it's not absolutely necessary or is it somthing I should get?
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The crimp-only die is unnecessary, but convenient. See my post 70

About reinstalling your dies vs the quick=change bushings/collets: Readjusting your dies every time you use them teaches you volumes about the proper adjustment of your dies and the dimensions of your ammunition. I did it for years and even now (I use interchangeable turret disks and never have to adjust dies any more) I have the skill to adjust dies ingrained into my muscle memory - like riding a bike, you never forget. I can do it in my sleep, I think.

If you can score (time to visit a gun show or pawn shop) a spare seat/crimp die you will have your 4-die set.

If you find a really cheap full die set (there are some old tool-steel die sets wherein the sizing die is tool steel, not tungsten-carbide and they can be found at gun shows super-cheap) The case-mouth expanding (flaring) and seat-crimp dies are fine. Even the new Tungsten-carbide sets use the same tool steel for the flaring and seat-crimp dies.

So you can get a dedicated crimp die for $5-$10. And it comes without the post-sizing ring that troubles so many people.

Lost Sheep
 
To figure out on each bullet where it is intended to be loaded to you have a couple options. #1 if your bullet has a crimped groove around it at the top of the straight part of the side, that's called a cannelure and usually if the bullet has one, that's where you want the top of the case to be, and where you crimp at. #2 if bullets don't have a cannelure then lay it on its side on a flat table, see where the nose radius starts coming up off the table. Go a few thousands back from there to make sure your just barely still on the flat sides.
 
After scanning some of the feedback you got it would be best to just get several reloading books. Hodgdon also has an on-line reloading reference you can use. Watch several YouTube vids on reloading. If you see something being done the same way over and over it's most likely the correct way to do it. There is some good advice in the replies you got but if your just starting out reloading get confident in what your doing before asking around.
 
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