"No Guns Allowed Sign" in Lexington, KY.

[christcorp]

How about blanket prohibitions for other "undesirable" members of society? African-Americans? Hispanics? The Disabled? The Obese? Veterans?

A lot of people trying to justify being able to do what they please in a business establishment, LOVE TO QUOTE this example. And the answer has been given 2,363,674 times. But that's OK; not everyone reads all the threads on all the forums. But to clarify for you: There are "LEGAL" requirements for anti-discrimination that ALL BUSINESS owners MUST comply with when operating their business. Basically; in the reader's digest version; ANY POLICY/RULE/etc... MUST APPLY TO ALL PATRONS. Your example of race, weight, etc... would be a policy or rule that DOES NOT apply to all patrons. And therefor, it is discriminatory. In other words, it has to be a policy or rule that the patron has control over. A person doesn't have control over their sex, race, national origin, sexuality, etc... Also, the same would apply to prices, availability, etc.... The merchant can't charge more to some people and less to others.

The only exception to this, that has been upheld numerous times in courts all over the country, are rules/policies/etc.... that are set due to safety or state/federal laws that have precedence. I.e. An amusement park can deny someone too short from a particular ride because of the safety features built into the ride that are a physical restraint, and can not be adjusted or adapted because of safety. Certain OPEN-AIR restaurants where the food is prepared in the presence of the patrons can restrict seeing eye dogs and such. Some states don't allow under 21 to enter certain portions of an establishment that serves alcohol. You get the idea.

But the prohibition of blacks, handicapped, over-weight, veterans, etc... are already covered by law. The business owner must make policies that apply to everyone. Nice try though.

 

[Ruggles]

Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc. Your examples for the most part are all protected under federal and local laws against discrimination. CCW is not, nor should it be.

If you do not like the stance of the owner then do business elsewhere, I would. I should have the right as a owner to set standards and conditions on my private property. Yelping about "fairness" like a hurt liberal is just sad, I refuse to sink to their level in matters such as these.

The issue has already been resolved and as it turned out the owner was following the law.

 

[.455_Hunter]

CCW is not, nor should it be.

I disagree. When CCW is a specifically government sanctioned activity, like here in Colorado (with permit), your carry should be lawful anywhere the public is allowed access.

Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc.

The government is not in the business of giving official permits for going barefoot in McDonalds, wearing obscene t-shirts in the mall, or skateboarding through the business park.

and as it turned out the owner was following the law

Maybe the law should be changed. For most states, their current CCW laws are first attempts, and definitely could stand some modifications. Many of these restrictions are in place because that was the only way the bill could make through state legislatures or get past governor's desks. Since the streets have not been running with blood, like we were all told by the antis would happen, carry restrictions are being eased. I believe that AZ and TN are recent examples of this occurring.

 

[christcorp]

Tell you what 455; you can set whatever rules you want in your business; if you have one. And I will set whatever rules I want in my business. Personally, I would never have such as rule as no guns. But how dare you tell me that I HAVE TO let you do whatever you want in my business. It's bad enough the government tells us many things we can and can't do, but now you as the customer are "DEMANDING RIGHTS". How arrogant. I'm surprised that you don't DEMAND that a restaurant provide you with certain dishes even if they AREN'T on the menu. So, as a private citizen, you are entitled to whatever rights you can name. But as a private citizen, who happens to own a business, I have no rights in how I operate my business. Oh yea, that's some great freedoms and rights we have.

This goes beyond guns and 2nd amendment rights. This goes to the CORE RIGHTS (More IMPORTANT than the Bill of Rights). This goes to our inalienable rights of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". So you as a consumer are allowed to pursue happiness; but the business owner who undoubtedly works harder and puts more hours in than you can even possibly imagine, is NOT ALLOWED to pursue his happiness. He has to worry instead about your happiness on his property. That's pure B.S.

 

[ChaoSS]

You know, it's interesting that a few people have brought up the idea of keeping people out because of race/religion/nationality/whatever.

Why shouldn't a store owner be permitted to limit access to his or her store like that? Yes, I know the courts have said they can't, but forget that for a minute. If I sell my old computer, I have the right to sell to whomever I see fit, and if that's only Japanese men who are bald on one side of their heads, so be it. If I choose to make a living selling used computers, that should not mean that I am required to sell to anyone and everyone. If a store owner wants to put a sign on his door saying "no blacks", why shouldn't he be permitted to do so? I would think that if society truly disapproves of such an action, he would have little to no business. This seem to me a truer model of a free economy than the government telling us who we have to let into our stores.

 

[Ruggles]

"Quote:
CCW is not, nor should it be.
I disagree. When CCW is a specifically government sanctioned activity, like here in Colorado (with permit), your carry should be lawful anywhere the public is allowed access.

Quote:
Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc.
The government is not in the business of giving official permits for going barefoot in McDonalds, wearing obscene t-shirts in the mall, or skateboarding through the business park.

Quote:
and as it turned out the owner was following the law
Maybe the law should be changed. For most states, their current CCW laws are first attempts, and definitely could stand some modifications. Many of these restrictions are in place because that was the only way the bill could make through state legislatures or get past governor's desks. Since the streets have not been running with blood, like we were all told by the antis would happen, carry restrictions are being eased. I believe that AZ and TN are recent examples of this occurring."



As you seem to want to argue over everything I will leave this to someone who cares to do so with you.

 

[Knotthead]

The issue has already been resolved and as it turned out the owner was following the law.

Hey! Someone was actually paying attention. How did that happen?

 

[christcorp]

ChaoSS; actually, you have brought up a point that has been brought up before. Even in the courts. As a private individuals, you are totally allowed to discriminate against anyone you want to. Now without getting too deep into law and definitions, there is a difference between "Prejudice" (A belief and internal feeling towards something); "Discrimination" (Acting differently towards something or someone because of prejudice). And then there's "Assault" (The physical interaction towards something or someone with the intent of harming; either physically, mentally, or emotionally).

ALL citizens are FREE to be prejudice. There is nothing wrong or against the law for this. We are ALL prejudice about something. Maybe it's people, maybe certain animals, maybe it's against spinach. We ALL have our prejudices. And we ALL discriminate to an extent. My grandfather wouldn't allow a Chevrolet in the family because of a bad work experience. You might discriminate against a drug user. Maybe it is because of race. And then there's assault. When you verbally or physically confront something or someone, you are assaulting them. That should almost never be tolerated.

As a culture, we have to develop certain social norms. Forget law and the legal system. All societies develop social norms. These have existed in every single society since Adam and Eve; or whoever you believe was the beginning. These social norms change constantly. In our society, it use to be totally acceptable to treat blacks, women, indians, immigrants, etc... differently than we do now. It was "Socially Acceptable". Currently; the "Social Norm" in our country is that you can't discriminate against a person based on traits that the person has no control over. I.e. They can't change their race, color, sex, orientation, age, disabilities, etc... I'm not talking LEGAL. I'm talking "SOCIALLY". The social norm is that if a person can't control something about themselves that you don't like; it's not their fault.

So, we are all prejudice and that can NEVER CHANGE. It's not possible. We will all discriminate. That too can not change. But it is only socially acceptable as long as it's not discrimination against attributes and traits that a person has no control over. And assault; both verbally and physically; is socially unacceptable. This is not to say there aren't some that don't follow the social norm. There are. Just that as a consensus; the social norm is what is generally followed.

 

[krs]

So, what's the weather like in Lexington, Kentucky?

I like it that the law has my name prefixed to every statute and think, therefore, that it must be where I belong. At long last.........home.

 

[.455_Hunter]

No personnel offense intended Ruggles!

I was just having a discussion and trying back-up/clarify my POV...

You are free to agree or disagree.

 

[chris in va]

I've had a couple similar instances here in Louisville.

A large movie theater has a "no guns" decal on the lower door window quoting a KRS dealing with revocation of permit if the officer demands you hand it over and you refuse.

Now here's the one with teeth.

My friend took an adult education course at a small building in Shepherdsville. It was completely separate from any college or school campus, and I had to do research to be sure it was legal and enforceable.

 

[Erik M]

Typically, they are the ones teaching at the universities.

Correct. I was still on campus at Morehead state during the 04 election, It was a bad idea to advertize being conservative. My younger bro said that he experienced the same on the 08 election at EKU.

I diddnt notice the sign at Liquor Barn. Ill keep my eyes open the next time i'm on a sauce run.

 

[che_70b]

Kentucky is just about the most gun friendly state in the country. Around some of the universities there is some liberal stupidity but of those folks either wise up to how good we have it here or leave for somewhere more suitable to them. I have never noticed a strong anti gun sentiment in Lexington. Even with some of the college students who are pretty liberal there is not usually a strong anti gun sentiment.

 

[fireman 9731]

It was a bad idea to advertise being conservative. My younger bro said that he experienced the same on the 08 election at EKU.

What???

IMO EKU is a fairly politically conservative campus... sure there are liberals, but It was never a "bad idea" to bring up politics to somebody. The law enforcement academy at EKU has done a lot for guns on campus. The steady report of pop pop pop all day from the police range across campus, along with several plain clothes law enforcement instructors open carrying, I know for a fact has changed several student's opinions about guns.

Faculty on the other hand.... well thats another story.

 

[amishjosh]

So, what's the weather like in Lexington, Kentucky?

It's kentucky, summers are hazy, hot and humid, high in the mid-90s, 30% chance of late afternoon thunderstorms, winters are down into the singles and teens, with a slight chance of snow/sleet/hail. In summer we get tornados and in fall we get windstorms.

 

[krs]

amishjosh:"It's kentucky, summers are hazy, hot and humid, high in the mid-90s, 30% chance of late afternoon thunderstorms, winters are down into the singles and teens, with a slight chance of snow/sleet/hail. In summer we get tornados and in fall we get windstorms".

Thanks. So it's colder than Alabama in winter but otherwise about the same if those late afternoon thunderstorms include rain in sheets that you could set your watch to, and during that rain it progresses slowly along the ground so that if you really tried you could walk along in front of it and stay almost completely dry. (I spent about 9 months in Alabama - Feb 2 thru to Sept. 24, 1967)

 

[Jed Carter]

Buds in Paris KY has new owners, same name. Budsgunshop.com and Buds Police supply in Lexington KY are under the same ownership. Both are great places to shop for firearms.

 

[che_70b]

Back in the old Days

I'm che 70's dad. I went to Morehead State in the late 1960's. Our dorm janitor was a divorced man in his 40's who bunked in a nook in the basement to keep from having to commute from his farm everyday. He let me store my rifle or shotgun with him during the fall when I wanted to go squirrel hunting during the week. I'd just get my gun and walk out, down the campus and out of twon to the woods, or if someone was driving, to the car.

One day I saw an older man on the Boulevard near the Baird Music Building. He was watching two or three pigeons feeding on the lawn. He had a scoped Remington 225 Fieldmaster .22 slung over his shoulder. I stopped to chat. He said he had the OK to shoot pigeons (they were nuisances) and he was waiting for them to fly to the top of the building so he would have a safe shot.

How things have changed for the worse!

 

[SammyIamToday]

Lexington is very gun friendly to add to what others have said (not the University of Kentucky however. ). For being a city anyway. Compared to the rural areas it can probably seem not very gun friendly though, so I can see that angle.


I've seen that sign at Liquor Barn too. Most of the near campus liquor stores have good/decent bourbon selections and don't sell by the drink. Those should be okay. At least I've never seen those signs at any of them.

Overall to the guy that's considering KY as a place of residence, I think the Brady Bunch rated us tied at 49th for most evil gun places in America last year or the year before, so that should tell you everything you need to know. And now that Kathy Stein isn't head of the committee in the House that receives gun related bills anymore, I expect to see a Campus Carry brought through and actually voted on. Which would be nice. UK receives state funds and should be treated like the rest of the state.

 

[9MMare]

We had a situation in town where a local restaurant was robbed and the daytime manager put up a "No Guns" sign.

LOL

Seriously?

Sure, because the criminals always obey the rules.


Glad they took it down, but their initial reaction just struck me as ridiculous.

 

[9MMare]

How about blanket prohibitions for other "undesirable" members of society? African-Americans? Hispanics? The Disabled? The Obese? Veterans?

If your facility is "open to the public", it should be "open to the public", unless a specific individual is causing harm or disturbance. CCW holders generally don't cause harm or disturbance.

Certain groups fall into 'protected classes,' like women, most minorities, disabled, gays, etc.'

Employers and most business owners are not allowed to discriminate against anyone in a protected class.

Gun carriers, the obese, and veterans dont fit into protected classes (yet).


A private business does have the right to decide who enters their property. I support this right.

I also support politely educating them on the positive side of gun ownership and the ability to shop elsewhere and support more gun-friendly businesses when possible.

 

[ThrottleJockey72]

It seems like KY is no different from any other state. Texas doesn't admit Dallas is part of the state, MN hates Minneapolis, IL hates Chicago, etc.....It looks like the liberal hippie freaks feel more secure in large numbers and rely upon the kindness of others for their welfare checks. Just keep out of major metropolitan areas as a general rule.

 

[Fryerpower]

It sure is, and its a great place, but you have to realize that for every gun in that shop there are 1,000 liberal hippie lunatics in Lexington that wouldn't enjoy anything more than to melt all those guns down into solar panels and windmills. There is a reason that Lexington is often called the "Boulder Colorado of the East"

Hey! Not all solar panel owners are hippies! (I know, you did not say that...)

I have five solar hot water panels that help heat my house in the winter and a nice selection of personal, CCW, and hunting firearms.

-Jim

 

[Pilot]

I lived in Lexington for a few years until recently and don't remember the sign at Liquor Barn on either Richmond Road or the one off of Harrodsburg Road.

Bud's opened a retail store recently on Winchester Road in Lexington which will sell to private citizens but it is marketed more towards LE. Paris is only a 20 minute drive from Lex and has more stock, plus an indoor range if you want to shoot.

Kentucky is VERY gun friendly. As someone else said, just look at their Brady ranking. For us a low Brady ranking is very good!

 

[eatont9999]

I think that sign is there to scare people into coming in naked. I carry into the packie every time I go. I must be confused, though, no one ever robs a packie...right? It has to be one of the "safest" places in town... I never see any nut jobs outside loitering or pan handling...

If the law says you can carry there, do so. Just don't go up to the store owner and tell him you have a gun. Most people don't take too well to that anyway.

I know they don't up here, but are there still drive-thru package stores around?