Smaller bore equals higher pitch in my experience.
I don't love a 45. But it's low pressure and big bore. Both are positives.
357 is a big nope. I have permanent ringing from firing one indoors. It went from my carry to my last resort.
Noise levels in real life situations
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I don't love a 45. But it's low pressure and big bore. Both are positives.
357 is a big nope. I have permanent ringing from firing one indoors. It went from my carry to my last resort.
mokin
Member
I've wondered about the idea of a sound forwarder and what happens when used indoors and the sound hits walls and bounces back. Is this a legitimate concern?
300 Blk with a good silencer is around 121 dB. Without, probably similar to 45 ACP. To avoid hearing loss entirely, spear gun, crossbow, sword or cudgel are OPs best bet. Maybe one of these: https://www.airgundepot.com/ataman-m2r-bullpup-type-2-walnut.html#AGD-38497398
Riomouse911
Member
The answer is, it really doesn’t matter. They’re all North of the damage threshold for unprotected ears.
The truth is that you are far more likely to get hit by a car driving to the store than you will fire any shot in self defense.
In all honesty, worry more about your exterior home security situation, your firearm/home defense tools and maintaining your skill level. Whether or not your ear may ring a bit is rather far down the worry list.
You have a compact 1911, maybe a 5” for home and the compact for carry? Same operation, easier to remember how they work under stress.
Stay safe.
westernrover
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The sound is generated by the burst of pressure at the muzzle, and the shock wave of a supersonic bullet. Any given cartridge can be loaded for more or less sound. The shorter the barrel, the higher the muzzle pressure will be for a given cartridge and load, but we can't say "357 Magnum is this loud," because it varies a lot based not just on the barrel length (although that is one of the most influential things by far), but also the bullet mass, and the powder progressivity/digressivity and burn rate, and how much powder is used.
The 327 Magnum is a very high pressure handgun cartridge, and the LCR has a very short barrel. With factory 327 ammo, this is one of the loudest handguns of all. Loading it with lower pressure ammo decreases the performance much more than it lowers the noise. The problem with loading to a lower maximum average pressure (like 32 H&R or 32 Long) is the velocity is much lower. To make up for this, more progressive and slower burning powders are used to maximize velocity. These powders are loaded in a volume to reach a lower peak pressure, but keep the pressure up for a longer time. The problem with this is the pressure in the barrel when the base of the bullet exits is higher -- so they are loud. They may even be louder than a cartridge with a higher peak pressure that uses a more digressive, faster burn rate powder so that the pressure drops faster.
Small bores will drop less pressure as the bullet travels down the barrel, resulting in more muzzle pressure versus a big bore that will provide a lot more volume for gas to expand into as the bullet goes down the barrel. This is another reason why .22LR, .223, or 327 are often louder than bigger bore alternatives. A suppressor is basically a device to progressively increase the bore size and allow gas to expand so that when the base of the bullet exits the muzzle, the pressure differential behind it is very low.
Selecting a firearm for any given purpose involves more than just these factors that affect the report from the muzzle. If you consider these things, however, you can achieve good performance with a minimum of noise -- it won't be 'hearing safe' without a suppressor, but it will be significantly quieter, less risky for those moments you forget to put your hearing protection back on, less damaging in an unprotected shot, and easier on suppressors with a quieter result when using them.
Pistol use...
Strong arm draw & point, tilt strong side ear onto strong side shoulder, place weak side index finger in weak side exposed ear.
It will help if you practice this, and tilt the pistol towards your weakside a tad bit. Think gangsta rap style whoaaa (haha).
The only problem is with a semi-auto, you will be ejecting the empty case up into the air and under stress I suppose it's a 5-15% chance you induce a failure to eject a.k.a. stovepipe.
Strong arm draw & point, tilt strong side ear onto strong side shoulder, place weak side index finger in weak side exposed ear.
It will help if you practice this, and tilt the pistol towards your weakside a tad bit. Think gangsta rap style whoaaa (haha).
The only problem is with a semi-auto, you will be ejecting the empty case up into the air and under stress I suppose it's a 5-15% chance you induce a failure to eject a.k.a. stovepipe.
Crosshair
Member
That's not at all what they are doing.
What they are doing is stating what THEIR priority order is. In this case, they don't want to suffer from Tinnitus for the rest of their life just because someone broke into their house.
Tinnitus is no laughing matter. People with Tinnitus have a high probability of becoming suicidal and often have a significantly reduced qualitycartridge.
They had the decency to let people know up front what they wanted so you wouldn't waste your time. Yet you are getting upset at that?
To answer the OPs question. I would strongly advise you reconsider your view on suppressors. They are mainstream now and you're virtually certain to be on some "list" anyway. What's one more?
Failing that, I would say your choice of a 327 revolver loaded with 32 H&R is a good choice for CCW.
For open carry, I would consider something big-bore, but low pressure. 44 Special or 45 Colt. Though 38 Special will work too. Look at the full pressure 38 Wadcutters for ammo to carry loaded. Have any reloads be SWC, since full WC can be tricky to chamber under stress.
For home defence, a 9mm carbine will do well. The Ruger PC9 is an obvious choice, but a lever 357 or 44 will also work well if you practice with it so you don't short stroke under pressure. A 20 gauge shotgun is also a good option. Less recoil than a 12, but still plenty lethal and not much ear damage as a rifle cartrige.
Mosin77
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I have a 24” Marlin 1892 currently chambered in .32 colt. If I eventually get it rechambered to .32 s&w long, I’d wager it will be about the quietest unsuppressed centerfire firearm of stopping-power caliber, possible.
I also have a CZ-83 chambered in .32acp, which holds 15+1.
Both of these options are somewhat obscure, but would technically qualify in the quest for stopping power-low noise-unsuppressed.
You could also get a 44spl or magnum revolver, or better yet, a Rossi 44 lever action carbine, and shoot specials. That’s probably
Your best practical option. It should be notably quieter than the oft-recommended 45acp pistol or 9mm shooting 147gr subsonic bullets.
I also have a CZ-83 chambered in .32acp, which holds 15+1.
Both of these options are somewhat obscure, but would technically qualify in the quest for stopping power-low noise-unsuppressed.
You could also get a 44spl or magnum revolver, or better yet, a Rossi 44 lever action carbine, and shoot specials. That’s probably
Your best practical option. It should be notably quieter than the oft-recommended 45acp pistol or 9mm shooting 147gr subsonic bullets.
I have chronic moderately severe tinnitus. I'm also a 40 year safety professional. People with tinnitus do not have a "high probability" of becoming suicidal, but the very severe cases can lead to depression and anxiety since there are no satisfactory treatments to eliminate the noise...yet. Those that suffer the most debilitating levels of tinnitus and loose hope may become suicidal, as anyone suffering a debilitating chronic condition may loose hope, become depressed, and seek release by ending the suffering through suicide. Hearing protection is a subfield in my profession and while I know many people who suffer tinnitus to one degree or another (like I do and several others on this forum do) due to working with them or as part of the shooting community only one person I know had to seek treatment for the depression and anxiety because they realized they were having suicidal thoughts. I agree tinnitus is no laughing matter because I experience it continuously and I work in the field trying to prevent hearing loss, but let's not over dramatize it.
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Tinnitus CAN be debilitating, the brain attempts to ''fill in'' the empty spots with...noise relating to that frequency. Voila, the semi-constant higher pitch a.k.a. ''ringing''.
IF NO TREATMENT, even a simple consultation with an Audiologist (usually a FREE hearing exam), the brain can strain and use OTHER resources to attempt a ''fix'' to the problem. This can become an energy drain, and tiring.
Which can mimic a form of mild dementia.
Think about it, valuable brain resources that COULD be use one area, thrown needlessly at another.
Again, a professional consult can help this, hearing aids can and do help, ppl have to think abou...''hey, can't hear it any more.'' It's still there, just...gone. Kinda.
And hearing aids just got approved for OTC / modified exam (don't know the details), making it MUCH less $$$. $4k aids are NOT the only effective treatment !
That said, prevention by the ounce, better then cure by the pound
P.S> you pronounced it correctly , either way. TIN -it- us i.e. the metal ''tin' ,or, tin- EYE-tus. Both are medically correct!
Signed, been there did that
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Which is what I pointed out. It can be, but it isn't debilitating for everyone nor for the majority and certainly not to the point that there's a "high probability" of resulting suicide. There are probably 20 million people like me with chronic tinnitus. There certainly are many on THR with it. I've dealt with hundreds of people in my career with it. Not some anecdote, but professional experience with a significant population. Most people with chronic tinnitus don't have a high probability of becoming suicidal. That's not diminishing the significance of tinnitus nor ignoring the value of avoiding hearing damage that can result in it. Hyperbole over-dramatizing it does no one exposed to unsafe noise levels any good any more than the "ol boys" that dismiss the need for hearing pro.
Double_J
Member
I live with tinnitus every day due to a combination of chronic ear infections in my childhood, loud music, and shooting. My ring is just off 8 Khz and comes and goes throughout the day. It is aggravating but by no means makes me suicidal. I spoke with my ENT and Audiologist and they told me there is not much that can be done for me at this moment.
I wear good quality ear protection in high noise environments and take care not to do stupid things regarding loud noises. I used to keep a bunch of foam disposable ear plugs in my car to hand out to people who needed them, but I ran out and most people don't want them anyways as they "know better."
I wear good quality ear protection in high noise environments and take care not to do stupid things regarding loud noises. I used to keep a bunch of foam disposable ear plugs in my car to hand out to people who needed them, but I ran out and most people don't want them anyways as they "know better."
DeepSouth
Random Guy
IIRC from the safety classes at work, around 120db hearing damage is nearly instant.
If their is a center fire handgun under that, (unsuppressed) I would be extremely surprised. If their is a center fire long gun under that I’d be a little less surprised, but still surprised.
OP said not to say it doesn’t matter, so I want say that.
If their is a center fire handgun under that, (unsuppressed) I would be extremely surprised. If their is a center fire long gun under that I’d be a little less surprised, but still surprised.
OP said not to say it doesn’t matter, so I want say that.
Electronic hearing protection is the OP’s best solution if he doesn’t want to get on a government watch list. Wear an in-ear pair while out and about, and have a pair of over the ear at hand when at home.
As far as firearms go, low pressure semiauto handguns for carry (all other things being equal, revolvers will be louder due to the cylinder gap) and pistol caliber carbines with a 16+“ barrel (to stay off the government’s SBR list).
As far as firearms go, low pressure semiauto handguns for carry (all other things being equal, revolvers will be louder due to the cylinder gap) and pistol caliber carbines with a 16+“ barrel (to stay off the government’s SBR list).
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I asked my son why he didn’t wear Marine Corp provided hearing protection during combat. He straight forward answer was, “because I couldn’t hear commands”. It was a lawyers question. I already knew the answer. He has permanent hearing loss. Mostly from an ied. Ringing is constant. But what’s a marine to do. Myself, loud jet engines from my zoomie days didn’t help any. To be honest, does one really need earplugs every time you carry? It’s all about managing the risks.
trackskippy
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They cover hearing protection in the beginning. Never know when you might get into a gunfight in the can.
That was actually a pretty funny movie to, if youve never seen it.
That was actually a pretty funny movie to, if youve never seen it.
Blkhrt13
Member
Pretty sure if I have to pull the trigger inside the situation is very snafu. My current choice is a 45 acp. There is also 442 with plus p next to it. I’m sure I could go down to my 32 smith and Wesson. But I’d rather the conversation end faster.
Seems like a swordfight is more likely..........Never know when you might get into a gunfight in the can.
Ironicaintit
Member
If there's a bump in the night, I like 45acp and shotguns. Subsonic and low pressures are your friend indoors.
Ironicaintit
Member
IMO a suppressed AR in 300blk would be the bees knees
BlueHeelerFl
Member
The weight of any rifle might be too much for the elderly. My Mom certainly would not be able to hold and use a 10-22 curretly
BlueHeelerFl
Member
Never claimed it was "safe", just said it was much easier to deal with with no ear protection and one or two shots isn't going to make or break you in the long run. You can survive more than that and not get tinnitus.
Hearing loss is not the same as tinnitus. They should not be mistaken for each other.
While they are both can be caused by hearing damage or injury, hearing loss is exactly what it sounds like <so many puns>. It is simply a loss of hearing sensitivity also referred to as a threshold shift in the quietist tones you test at in a hearing test. Very often someone may not recognize a threshold shift that a test reveals if the loss is small. Tinnitus is the addition of discernable noise by the individual that has no external source. It is described much like pain, using subjective and objective terms (3 on a scale of 5, continuous, intermittent, only after going to a Metallica concert after a day on the range ... on a Friday, etc).
Many people have tinnitus without hearing loss (I did for years) and many have hearing loss without tinnitus.
BTW, there are medicines or medical conditions (high BP being common) that can induce tennitus without any hearing damage from noise.
westernrover
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I can't help but think tv and film contributes a lot to the misconceptions about the practicality of firing guns without hearing protection.
How would you like to take a Tommy gun in your right ear and an M1A1 in your left?
How would you like to take a Tommy gun in your right ear and an M1A1 in your left?
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