(NOLA) City of misery, guns & despair

[Drizzt]

Canoe and a gun get duo to safety

By Stephen DeFerrari as told to Jessica Fargen
Friday, September 2, 2005 - Updated: 11:23 AM EST

Stephen DeFerrari, a Dedham native whose sister-in-law lives in Hanover, and his wife, Pam, escaped from their New Orleans home yesterday, brandishing a shotgun, in a canoe with their seven cats. Stephen spoke to the Herald last night after they arrived at a Baton Rouge hotel.

It was so dark last night. Pitch black. That was the scary part.

I was standing on the front porch with a shotgun keeping an eye on things. I could hear people breaking into houses right around the corner. We knew. We knew we had to get out. There was no police presence. The people are just going crazy. There doesn't seem to be any authority at all.

It took a canoe trip of about an hour and a mile long. It started to rain. More water. Just the thing we didn't need. It kind of felt good because we were so hot, so filthy. It felt good to have cool, clean water.

We had to make two trips in the canoe to get the cats and the dogs and the people we were with to get to higher ground. We saw fires and looting going on. If we didn't keep on moving and stay away from some people I feel like we would have been in trouble.

Earlier today, a man came up to me. I think he wanted the canoe. He saw I was armed and gave up.

We happened to pass this mall and people were looting it.

People told us the police went in there so they started shooting at the police. So the police left. They (looters) just set the place on fire. We saw it burning and we saw the fire department not even going near the place because the looters were going nuts.

We made it to dry land. We got into an Explorer rented by one of our friend's daughters. There weren't too many people on the roads in the beginning. As we got closer to Baton Rouge there started to be more people. There are people with their bags, looking lost. It's so eerie and strange. People are just lost. I guess most of them probably lost everything they got.

We are lucky, very lucky. Our house didn't get destroyed. We are still alive. The first thing my wife did after she and her sisters hugged and cried at the hotel, she took a shower. I'm about to do the same.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=100716

 

[Drizzt]

Residents of New Orleans arm themselves in chaotic city

BY CHRIS ADAMS AND WILLIAM DOUGLAS

Knight Ridder Newspapers

NEW ORLEANS - (KRT) - Peter Vazquez is strapped.

Barbecuing lamb on a grill outside his home in New Orleans' historic Algiers Point neighborhood Friday, Vazquez flashed a 9 mm Beretta from his pants pocket and showed visitors a 12-gauge shotgun that was readily accessible in the house.

"Oh, you've got to carry," said Vazquez, a 40-year-old restaurant owner.

As tired and frantic New Orleans residents waited for law enforcement officials to restore order, many decided to take matters into their own hands to protect their streets and property from looting.

With stories spreading of police cars being shot at and of hot-wired school buses backing up and emptying houses of all their possessions, Vazquez and others around the city have been packing heat. A lot of it.

"I've been carrying it for the last couple of days," he said. He said the police have been invisible in his neighborhood; police officials have said they're vastly overwhelmed and were waiting for the National Guard help that began arriving Friday.

As residents fended for themselves, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin took to the airwaves, blasting President Bush and the federal hurricane relief effort. He warned residents to be aware of desperate people searching for food and water, or drugs to feed their habits.

"I need reinforcements. I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man," he said in a radio interview.

The feeling of helplessness prompted Ed Land, also of the Algiers Point neighborhood, to put his 9 mm automatic in a hip holster and strap it on as he cleaned up hurricane debris from his property.

"A guy in the next street over shot at three individuals - one definitely got hit," said Land, 51. "He thinks he killed one that died a couple of streets over."

One of Land's neighbors walked up and down the street Thursday with a beer in one hand and a shotgun in the other. The man spray-painted a warning and a criticism on the wood he placed over one of the windows of his house to protect them from the storm: "Looters Will Be Shot. Bush Sucks. Where's FEMA?"

The somewhat secure feeling of having weaponry was shattered for Algiers Point residents Friday when a thundering series of blasts rocked the neighborhood at about 4:30 a.m.

After the explosions subsided, a few residents wandered to the top of the Mississippi River levee. They could see that something - it was later reported to be an abandoned warehouse - was in flames, and a huge pillar of black smoke could be seen rising above the night sky and drifting across the river.

Standing on the levee across the river from the blaze, Wayne Janak described riding out his first hurricane - he'd moved to New Orleans just a year earlier. While his neighbors evacuated before the storm, he stayed behind; they left him their keys and pets. His house suffered relatively minor hurricane damage.

But the chaos after the storm left him bewildered - and scared.

Standing on the darkened levee, Janak could see a flashlight on the street below. He heard the sounds of what sounded like a grocery cart. He shined his light down, and the people pushing the cart shined back.

"I hope they're not armed," somebody said.

"Don't matter," Janak replied. "I got two guns. I've been armed since this thing started, and I swore I'd never do that."

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/12548424.htm

 

[LAK]

Steam Dragon

Well, I am of the opinion that "Bush did nothing", because he had and has no authority to do anything.
when he sent in federalized NG, and ACTIVE DUTY Millitary Police, he is violating Posse Comtotisse however it's spelled.

He has direct and ultimate power and authority to declare the area a disaster area, and declare a national emergency. This has been done before by previous presidents, and gives the Executive the power to use Federal troops and call the NG into national service. Declaring a State of martial law would place jurisdiction temporarily under the Federal government and the UCMJ.

Nothing good or to be desired (see next point below), but with the failure of the State and local government, the only recourse when the city flooded.

The Mayor of NO left hundreds of school busses parked on a lot less than a mile from the superdome. Those busses could have been in use DAYS before Katrina hit. Then Bush wouldn't have had to go where he has gone now.

I susupect that most of those bus drivers, like many other service personnel, emergency service personnel etc did the wise thing - and left the area pronto with their own families well in advance. Can't use a fleet of buses without drivers.

One last point on top of my head, Please show me just where, in the Constitution of the united States of America, It is the PRESIDENTS DUTY or the Federal Government to respond as you ask?

I would ask the same thing. Except that the Bush administration - like previous ones - assumes and accepts the responsibility with organizations they created and maintain like FEMA. Or is FEMA "only to be used" in cases of emergencies on "Federal property"?

OIC regulating Interstate Transport...?

They already do with another Executive creation - supported ongoing by the current administration - called the DOT, and the TSA etc. There are a pile of EO's going back to the Kennedy, LBJ administrations (that have morphed somewhat through the Clinton era) to the current President giving the Executive the power to seize everything from transport, fuel and other resources right through to conscripted civilian manpower in any declared national emergency.

Again, I do not think this is a good idea or even constitutional; but it is the current administration that maintains this status quo, and have sent much of the States' NG manpower and resources overseas. Thanks again to the global geo-political agenda of the current administration.

Now we have a truly largescale disaster, and they have done nothing for the critical period of the first three days, and it is now rolling on into a whole week.
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[LAK]

JohnBT

"President Bush did nothing."
Do you have an actual source, or inside info maybe, or is this as I believe simply your OPINION.

What did he do?

Did he declare New Orleans a disaster area, and declare a national state of emergency, call an emergency meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and request they establish choose a command post and staging base in LA, get every available helicopter, transport plane and small watercraft to the staging point? Diito fuel, food and medical supplies?

Did he call every State governor/ NG calling them into national service (what remain in this country that is) and direct them to move every available NG trooper, helicopter and transport aircraft to the staging point determined by the Joint Chiefs in LA?

Did he instruct them to begin a 24 hour search and airlift using watercraft and helicopters of people trapped by flooding in their homes and buildings?

Why not?

Do you even know anyone who works for FEMA? I do. [etc]

No. But I do know that FEMA is a largely administrative organization, and it does not have the assets and resources to actually do anything. However, the mere existance of FEMA assumes a Federal role. See my comments on this to Steam Dragon above.

Look at the federal-level response times in previous hurricanes and get back to me on it. I'll give you a hint, it's measured in days, if not weeks. That is the way it works. If it needs to be changed, then let's change it and quit blaming the people implementing it.

Depends on the urgency; you haven't answered my question as to how many days it was for the first U.S. military aircraft to actually deploy to the tsunami area.

In the case of New Orleans it was obvious on day one that things would become desperate very quickly.
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[Drizzt]

 

[Thin Black Line]

A lot of good articles in this thread that don't seem to be making it to
the newswire on Yahoo or other mainstream sources. No surprise
there.

Many points are reinforced here in them. If you're in a good position
with defence and plenty of supplies --stay put. If you're not, get
out, and keep moving. Don't stop for anything. Keep a cool head.

And do NOT go back for the dog and cat!

 

[bobby68]

They could have moved the busses before the storm. I read an article written after a previous storm where this subject already had been hashed over.

The local government was already well aware of what not to do but they seem to have just hoped that nothing would happen this time.

 

[Steam dragon]

LAK:

Did he declare New Orleans a disaster area, and declare a national state of emergency, call an emergency meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and request they establish choose a command post ...SNIP

State of emergency was declared by the president 3 days before Katina hit.
So the answer to that is, yes.

LAK:

Did he call every State governor/ NG calling them into national service (what remain in this country that is) and direct them to move every available NG trooper, helicopter and transport aircraft to the staging point determined by the Joint Chiefs in LA?

La. N.G. was under the control of the governor. Why didn't HE utilize them.
EVERYTHING YOU ASK ABOUT WAS AVAILABLE!
But the Governor didn't use them.
Why?
Because then response efforts would have been from his budget?
Or was he just incompetent?

LAK:

I susupect that most of those bus drivers, like many other service personnel, emergency service personnel etc did the wise thing - and left the area pronto with their own families well in advance. Can't use a fleet of buses without drivers.

My, my...LAK, a kid stole one of those busses and drove it with around a hundred people on board to Houston, Tx.
ONE of those busses made it out.

So what you are implying is that not one of the people trapped in NO was capable of driving a bus?

I used to drive a school bus.
It is easier to drive than a pickup truck. ANYONE who has ever driven a car can -IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION- drive a bus.
Yes, some are stick shift... but if my life depended on figureing out how to shift, and I had 1 hour to learn it, I think I could get out of dodge...

Redundancy alert...

Microwave mentality. MUSTbe fixed in 30 seconds or it's all Bushes fault. :banghead:

...and Karl Rove was at the controls of the giant weather machine that created Katrinain the first place. The Coastguard used their sails to direct it to NO.

Yeah Right.
You sound just like this guy

EDIT for sticky spacebar

 

[Steam dragon]

Don't Forget...

Let us not forget, people, New Orleans wasnot the only place that got hit by Katrina.

But, ACCORDING TO NEWS REPORTS, N.O. isthe only place that society broke down...

 

[Steam dragon]

Maybe this will make the point.

Just disgusting

145 busses x 88 passengers = 12,760 PASSENGERS PER TRIP.
Photo shamelesly swiped from SondraK

 

[akodo]

what is this deuce 4 thing?

 

[modifiedbrowning]

akodo, www.michaelyon.blogspot.com. Very informative blog from a writer that is embedded with a unit in Iraq.

 

[LAK]

Steam Dragon

State of emergency was declared by the president 3 days before Katina hit.

Declaring a state of emergency means nothing without action.

La. N.G. was under the control of the governor. Why didn't HE utilize them.

You mean why didn't she use them? I don't know; but once the flooding occurred, it was blatantly obvious that there were many thousands of people still there, and going to die if they were not lifted out.

But the President should have ordered up every available NG, Army, Air Force and Navy helo nationwide, had the closest and best suited staged close by, and the rest on standby for immediate deployment. The day the flooding started he could have summoned the Joint Chiefs and said get on it, get them moving, and get them all in there. Along with every available small watercraft the Navy could fly in, and summon as many volunteer small boat owners as possible.

My, my...LAK, a kid stole one of those busses and drove it with around a hundred people on board to Houston, Tx.

So?

What has that got to do with the obvious; that most anyone else who would have driven a school bus for a living, city transit and other ES workers left town, took care of themselves and their own families.

So what you are implying is that not one of the people trapped in NO was capable of driving a bus?

This is an absurd question. What are the people who have been taking food, water, and anything else they "need" that does not belong to them for the last week often referred to as?

I used to drive a school bus.
It is easier to drive than a pickup truck. ANYONE who has ever driven a car can -IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION- drive a bus.
Yes, some are stick shift... but if my life depended on figureing out how to shift, and I had 1 hour to learn it, I think I could get out of dodge...

Yep; I have piloted small boats, trucks, motorcycles, tracked equipment ... and I could no doubt hop into most buses and have one moving in less than a minute - perhaps even without the keys given a bit of time. I could probably get most small planes running and in the air - and possibly even bring one down again.

But I doubt that I would do any such thing with someone elses' property unless I was certain I had no choice in order to stay alive. And it does amount to theft, be it justified or not, and again, has nothing to do with the probability that most of the people who might have been directed by the governor of the city of NO to get in those buses and start ferrying people out were long gone themselves. Or making preps to ride out the storm at their homes even.

Yeah Right.
You sound just like this guy

I am always amused at this approach.

Hate to burst your bubble, but let me put this matter to rest: George W Bush is about as "republican" and "conservative" as Bill Clinton. In fact, it is no wonder Bush Sr gets along with Bill so well - they are all from the same social and ideological lineage.

I am glad we got that matter straight.
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[c_yeager]

But the President should have ordered up every available NG, Army, Air Force and Navy helo nationwide, had the closest and best suited staged close by, and the rest on standby for immediate deployment.

Brilliant. THe CoC should definatly have placed every single helicopter in our inventory into the direct path of a category 4 hurricane.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Nice1 on the pix Steam Dragon.

When it came to Responsibility and Authority on <using those> buses who
had it?

 

[bogie]

You know what really irritates me?

Many of the same people who are blaming Bush for inactivity would be crawling all over him if he'd gone around the laws, etc., and just sent folks in. Darn jackbooted thugs - didn't he know that he's supposed to wait for the state and local effort?

 

[Drizzt]

Another pic from NOLA

 

[Steam dragon]

Thin Black Line:

When it came to Responsibility and Authority on <using those> buses who

The Mayor of New Orleans.
At least, according to both the Citie Emergency Action Plan, and the state of La. Plan.

Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.

This from HERE Scroll down about half way. the City Of NewOrleans Emegrency Preparednes Plan, ANNEX I: HURRICANES

RESPONSE (PHASE II: WARNING, EVACUATION, AND SHELTERING)

Enough.

LAK, bash away at the President. (SWINGGGG and a miss.)

I can always use a laugh.
I get your point.
No mater what Bush does or doesn't do, he's wrong.
BAD PRESIDENT! NO DOUGHNUT!

"For none are so blind as WILL NOT see..."

 

[fallingblock]

Here ya' go LAK....the scenario you desire....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477712/posts


How the libs wanted Bush to act: A Katrina Fairy Tale
9/5/05 | self


Posted on 09/05/2005 6:56:05 AM PDT by NewJerseyJoe


Do the useful idiots, the moonbats, and the MSM ever stop to think about the absurdity of their cries -- of what Bush "should have" done? Here is how such a sequence of events might have unfolded........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


...And George Bush strode through the midst of the vehicles, and the force of his being caused the traffic to ease, and the evacuation route was cleared, and the people were overjoyed; and as George Bush passed among the vehicles, to each he touched the cars, upon his left and his right; and each car that was touched did find its fuel tank filled.

In the day of the Great Storm, George Bush did direct his pilot to drop him in the very face of the maelstrom: And George Bush stood at the edge of the winds and the raging sea and stared into the black heart of Katrina; and hurling himself into the air, he did do battle with the storm, and strove mightily with it; and the storm relented, and decreased to Category 3, and veered away to the East;

And in that time a cry went up from among the city, that the levees had broken. And George Bush did make haste unto the levees and did hurl himself unto the breach; and the strength of his sinews was as of steel, and he did force together the sundered ends, and the breach did heal, and the Waters of Pontchartrain were restored;

And again a cry went up from the Superdome, where the people did suffer heat and thirst and depravity; and George Bush unyoked the roof of the Superdome, and uplifting his arms in supplication, he did cause a refreshing cool rain to fall upon the people, and they were cleansed, and their thirst sated, and their filth washed away; and then he caused a break in the clouds, and from thence came magic rays of sunshine, to fill the people’s hearts with joy.

And in that day the city was given unto much lawlessness, and the people did cry for deliverance from brutish cruelty; and George Bush did cause a great stone to fall from the sky, and shatter into ten thousand fragments; and from each of those fragments did grow a soldier of the National Guard, and the soldiers formed into companies, and the companies did disperse unto the city, and there they slew the evildoers; for George Bush had brought them forth from nothingness in but mere moments.

And then George Bush did meet with the mayor of the city, and he laid hands upon him, and in that hour the mayor grew a new pair, and was glad; and in like manner did George Bush meet with the governoress, and comforted her, and at the sound of his word, competence formed within her and began to grow, and she did not need to rely on the kindness of strangers;

And at George Bush’s word of command, the Buses of Nagin did roar to life, and to proceed to evacuation points; and having filled themselves with refugees, the buses did direct themselves out from the stricken land and unto the promised land of Texas;

And George Bush contemplated the flooded city, and his heart grew heavy with sadness; and in that day George Bush took up the mighty Staff of Halliburton, and did wield it; and he stretched forth the Staff against the waters, and the toxic stew did withdraw, and the trapped people did escape; and the plasma TVs were recovered, and the Nike sneakers were found in saleable condition, and the items of jewelry were returned intact to their display cases, and the DVDs were restored to the Wal-Mart shelves, and food and drink were brought unto the needy;

And taking up again the Staff of Halliburton, George Bush held it aloft over the tortured lands; and then with great power he did bring the Staff down again, and with it he smote the ground mightily in his anger; and the earth shuddered and the land did groan; and then went forth from that spot a mighty rumbling as of thunder; and to the wonderment of the people, the city did begin to rise from the depths of the sea and the delta; and the levees were renewed, and the seawall mounted toward the heavens, and the buildings did frame the skyline.

And when all the lands were successfully restored, and the people successfully healed, and the dislocated successfully reunited ... George Bush did stand forth to accept the heavy burden of blame as a Miserable Failure, as stipulated by the mainstream media; and George Bush did accept the yoke of shame and was impeached, and the GOP was disbanded, and liberal apologism flowered once again, and the vast right-wing conspiracy was exposed, and Democrats were brought again to power, and the blind sheep were satisfied; and John Kerry did assume unto himself the mantle of leadership, and the people were restored, and air did clear, and there was peace throughout all the lands.
*********************************************************


The Mayor of New Orleans failed his city....big time. And cried about it, too!

The Governor of Louisiana failed to respond to the crises (plural)...and hoped that no one would notice.

The Federal Government failed to be prepared for the above combination of failures.....

To blame "Dubya" is simply a wishful failing to accept the reality of the relevant failures.

 

[LAK]

C Yeager

Brilliant. THe CoC should definatly have placed every single helicopter in our inventory into the direct path of a category 4 hurricane.

That is not what I stated. Read it slowly this time.
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[JohnBT]

"the President should have ordered up every available NG, Army, Air Force and Navy helo nationwide, had the closest and best suited staged close by..."

I guess we were confused by "...staged close by..."

John...don't you know I always read slowly?

 

[LAK]

Steam Dragon,

"Bash"? Now that is a real howl. He couldn't lead me to the bathroom.

What he has done is lead this country right on down the road of global socialism, into far greater debt, continued it's Balkanization, and placed it in an ever increasingly vulnerable state. Like most global socialists, many of his actions, inactions and omissions throughout his presidency have the hallmarks of either a complete idiot - or someone who has some very destructive inclinations.
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[Drizzt]

Neighbors Team Up To Provide Security

Neighbors Team Up To Provide Security

By Allison Klein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 5, 2005; Page A23

BILOXI, Miss., Sept. 4 -- Jeffrey Powell yanked the cushions off his living room sofa and arranged them on the bed of his truck. Then he got his shotgun, made himself comfortable, and spent the night in his driveway, protecting his hurricane-ravaged home and enjoying whatever breeze he could catch on a steamy night.

Powell is part of the Popps Ferry Landing neighborhood watch, a group of citizens trying to restore order and peace in their middle-class community a week after Hurricane Katrina brought her chaos.

"We're not going to have any looters out here," said Dan Shearin, 56, Powell's next-door neighbor. "We have some burly men who are sleeping outside with guns. If the looters come, we'll take care of them."

They haven't shot anyone, but they had to scare off a few groups of people they didn't know in the middle of the night, Shearin said.

As stories of violent and desperate looters have made their way across Mississippi, people in communities where law enforcement has been overwhelmed are reaching for their guns to police their streets.

In Popps Ferry Landing, many neighbors had lived near each other for years but had never spoken. The realization that their safety and homes were vulnerable and police presence was scarce brought them together quickly. The Dollar Store up the road was looted and vandalized pretty badly.

"We haven't exactly seen organized law enforcement out here," said Hugh Worden, 53, who lives on the other side of Powell. "The first day after the storm, we saw law enforcement out here. After that, there's not been much patrol. I suppose police are protecting the main streets."

Worden, a manager at Treasure Bay Casino before it was destroyed, said he has talked to everyone within three blocks of his home.

"The good thing is, now we all know each other," he said.

Popps Ferry Landing is tucked away in an enclave of western Biloxi, not far from Pass Road, the main east-west thoroughfare through town. Most of the houses here are two-story Colonials built in the early 1990s, and valued between $100,000 and $175,000. Many lost all or part of their roofs in the storm, and on some the entire front was torn away, as well. Piles of wood and aluminum siding stand in yards. So many trees are down, the road is an obstacle course.

Shearin said he did not sleep outside with a gun, but like most of his neighbors, he owns one. He has a Smith & Wesson .38.

"If I see somebody who's not supposed to be here, I'd shoot over their head," he said. "I wouldn't shoot anyone. I'm not a violent person -- not yet, anyway."

Shearin, a retired phone salesman, said he has been disappointed that police don't have the manpower to deal with looters.

"What good is the federal government?" he asked. "You've got to take care of yourself."

Sitting on his porch drinking a bottle of Aquafina, Shearin said he'd never seen as much destruction as Katrina brought.

"The terrorists couldn't do this much damage," he said.

He and his wife, Dottie, said they'd like to get out of Biloxi for a while, but they, like their neighbors, have to stay and wait for insurance claim agents to come by and assess the damage. The Shearins lost half their roof and most of their back yard, including a new hot tub.

"We are waiting on the insurance agents," Dottie Shearin said. "They have to come by and make a visual inspection."

Around the corner, Marti McKay, 30, said she and other neighbors have scattered their cars around the street to make it look as if everyone is home. It was scariest before they got their power back Saturday.

"It's nerve-racking at night around here because it's so dark," McKay said. "It's so quiet. We're used to the sound of air conditioning, and lights."

Her housemate Robin Frey helped organize some spotlights in the neighborhood powered by generators. And neighbor Oliver Fayard, 49, walked the streets with a flashlight to check on everyone.

"You didn't have a choice but to get out there and network," Frey said. "We saw some cars we didn't know that came through the neighborhood. We gave them a look to kill. We made it known these are not vacant houses."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/04/AR2005090401277.html?sub=AR

 

[c_yeager]

That is not what I stated. Read it slowly this time.

this is what you said:

But the President should have ordered up every available NG, Army, Air Force and Navy helo nationwide, had the closest and best suited staged close by, and the rest on standby for immediate deployment.

Perhaps you should define for us what YOU mean by "close by" when discussing a hurricane that is nearly 1,000 miles wide.

 

[LAK]

C Yeager,

There are military bases large and small dotted all over the southeast and gulf coast; and then there are the naval carriers (if we have any around right now) and other helo-carrying vessels. Once the storm path became clearer they could have been staged close enough for a significant number to be there and operating well within 24 hours.

"Available" means just that. I did not say "every single one in inventory". If a command, ship, base or unit has X-number of serviceable aircraft, and they need X-number for an essential local mission (if they actually have an essential local mission that is) and a small reserve, that will leave a certain number that could be described as "available".

Of course thanks to our so-called leadership and their global socialist cronies' globetrotting geo-political agenda under the guise of "peace and prosperity in every land", we do not have even a fraction of the total resources we should have for our own national security and times like these
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