Non semi auto rifle for self-defense

[benEzra]

Why does a home defense gun have to be a military style gun though, a lever or pump shotgun would be fine.

Lever-action rifles and pump shotguns (not to mention bolt-actions) are arguably as "military-style" as AR-15's are, they're just older military styles. And there are very traditional walnut-stocked semiauto carbines out there if one prefers traditionalism.

It's about having something that works well in close quarters that won't overpenetrate and that you don't mind the police taking away for evidence if there was a shooting.

I agree, and a .223 carbine is indeed a good choice by those parameters. They're not the only good choice, certainly, and the best choice is generally going to be what you shoot the most and are the most skilled with anyway. But .223 carbines loaded with JHP generally penetrate less in wallboard and exterior wall than most handgun JHP (with typically the same or less penetration than a shotgun shooting buckshot), are relatively easy to shoot well under stress, offer good capacity and very little recoil, and are more light-friendly than a lot of older style long guns are.

In the exceedingly unlikely event that one is forced to use a gun defensively, the price difference between a lever gun and a Kel-Tec/mini-14/AR will probably be insignificant in the broader scheme of things.

 

[Red Cent]

"a pump lets you stay on target more naturally than a lever between shots"

I respectfully disagree and thousands of SASS shooters would agree. The pump rifles will not run reliably. Most reputable 'smiths decline to work on them. You rarely see one on the firing line and you never see a top shooter with one. And we can run the levers with hot ammo also.


The OP needs to reconsider and take another look at the shotgun. I would bet when he got his 12 gauge, he went down to WallyWorld and bought some inexpensive rounds with black hulls. Those things hurt! Or someone sold him some "SD" rounds with 3 dr eq or more with 1 1/8 ounce of shot.

Get a box of AA Low Recoil rounds with 2 3/4 dr eq with 7/8 ounce or 1 ounce of shot. Size of shot doesn't matter. For the house, get #4s.

 

[sixgunner455]

Shot size does matter, but you can certainly get some reduced recoil shotshells.

Birdshot is for birds, not defense.

 

[mrmeangenes]

Mmmmmmmmm.........

Who or What are you planning to defend yourself against ?

 

[blindhari]

I have a Winchester Trapper in .357 mag. I originally bought it to go with a S&W 65-5. Age and surgery have taken me to the point where a 38 snub is my main personal carry. I reload with Trailboss for a common practice round and when I want 357 for the rifle I pack in 9 buffalo bore 125 grain hollow points. I cannot attest to stopping 2 legged varmint but I know this round will stop a 200+ pound Texas hog at 50 yds. I load all 38 cases in brass including +P+. All of my 357 loads, with the excepton of Buffalo Bore are nickel cases. One set of dies, a bajillion loads, ammo at every store, next to no recoil or weight. Works for me.

blindhari

 

[R.W.Dale]

The Turks-Ottomans used winchesters to kick the stuffing out of the Russians in the Crimea towards the end of the 19th century.

The Russian imperial army also issued win1895's in 7.62x54r fairly widely

Another battle where the Winchester repeated played a pivotal role happened at a place y'all might have heard of. Does the "little big horn" ring a bell.


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

reach out and touch them first before they come in your 200 yd zone, just my instant thoughts

If your instant thoughts rush to shooting people at long range, who are not yet shooting at YOU, then you need to take a step back and look up the definition of 'defense'.

OP is looking for a practical personal defense gun for REAL scenarios - not a preemptive strike gun for hypothetical fantasies.

 

[Panzercat]

OP is looking for a practical personal defense gun for REAL scenarios - not a preemptive strike gun for hypothetical fantasies.

A 45-70 it is, then

 

[minutemen1776]

I bought an Rem 870...12 ga....but the recoil is horrible...

Have you considered a 20 gauge? Also, CZ makes a handy little bolt action chambered in .223 and 7.62x39. It's their model 527.

 

[scotjute]

Choose the lever gun in whatever caliber pistol you currently have. Haveing both pistol and rifle with the same caliber ammo is convenient. The .357 rifle is quieter than the pistol and kick is much less noticeable. It would make an excellent choice for home defense and coyote killing.

 

[JFrame]

Choose the lever gun in whatever caliber pistol you currently have. Haveing both pistol and rifle with the same caliber ammo is convenient. The .357 rifle is quieter than the pistol and kick is much less noticeable. It would make an excellent choice for home defense and coyote killing.

FWIW, this is the option I went with many years back. My HD carbine is a Winchester Trapper in .357.

If "not a black rifle" is a major OP criterion, I'll submit this illustrative anecdote. A few years ago, I had some neighbors over to my house when the discussion of firearms and HD came up. They asked if I kept a rifle for HD.

I produced my Trapper. The neighbors promptly began to laugh hysterically. One of them said, "I used to have one of those when I was 8 years old!"

Although far from a conclusive test sample, these people clearly did not view the lever-gun as either threatening or a "black rifle."


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[Jason_W]

I've never fired a centerfire rifle in a confined space. Would the lower pressure of a shotgun blast in that same confined space make any real difference in terms of negative effect on the shooter? Or at a certain point, is loud just loud?

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Firstly, you really are the weapon and just about any firearm will do if you know how to use it effectively and train with it.


I think a lot of what you ask comes down to what you would enjoy to shoot. My favorite rifle is a lever action 30-30 and I shoot it a lot. The fact that I like it a lot is what dictates me to use it and bring it along when I'm going on overnight trips and plan to go social plinking or hunting. Yes, I own other rifles as well but if I'm not at home where i have choices, there is a good change I would have the lever and a back up semi auto pistol. I hope never to be in a gun fight but I if I

If I were looking at bolt actions, I really like the new Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle.

If I were looking at pump action rifles, I really like those Remington pump actions.

I think all of them would be fine for a dual use. You really need to just go borrow some and try them and see what you like.

 

[eye5600]

I'm not saying you ought to, but you could get a Taurus Circuit Court Judge revolving carbine. If you're familiar with revolvers, you're familiar with action. In rifle mode, it would be a good HD/SD weapon out to 50 yards which is more than enough.

Not enough range for coyotes, though.

 

[JFrame]

I'm not saying you ought to, but you could get a Taurus Circuit Court Judge revolving carbine. If you're familiar with revolvers, you're familiar with action. In rifle mode, it would be a good HD/SD weapon out to 50 yards which is more than enough.

Not enough range for coyotes, though.

My understanding is that revolver carbines died out in the first go-around back in the 19th century because it proved too potentially hazardous to set off mini-explosions in a partially open chamber so close to one's face.

I trust that they're safer on this go-around!


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[Panzercat]

According to gunblast most of the overt issues that caused them to die out have been fixed.

To the Rossi and Taurus' credit, they seem to do a good job fixing the weak links on the more obscure firearms. Their Lightning reproduction had a stronger action, their revolver carbine prevents gas escaping from the cylinder and by all accounts their .454 lever has held up to endurance testing well.

Not that they're the highest quality arms on the market, but their niche copies of bygone arms seems decent enough.

 

[JFrame]

According to gunblast most of the overt issues that caused them to die out have been fixed.

To the Rossi and Taurus' credit, they seem to do a good job fixing the weak links on the more obscure firearms. Their Lightning reproduction had a stronger action, their revolver carbine prevents gas escaping from the cylinder and by all accounts their .454 lever has held up to endurance testing well.

Not that they're the highest quality arms on the market, but their niche copies of bygone arms seems decent enough.

Thanks -- that's good to hear.

Not that I'm interested, but as you say, I guess it holds some niche value for CAS folks, and people like that.


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[Panzercat]

Same here. About the only thing that would catch my attention would be that revolver carbine in a .454.

 

[KAS1981]

Lever action carbine in .357.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Just a piece of advice on the 12ga shotguns... I purchased an 870 Express, and found the recoil a little punchy at first, too. So I put a slip-on recoil pad on it. The pad on the gun wasn't very soft. But with the additional pad, I can shoot 4-6 boxes of ammo at a time without any issues, other than getting a little fatigued.

As far as the HD rifle goes, I'd recommend semi-auto. But, if you're looking for something else, I'd probably recommend lever-action, too. They're fast, if you practice. But, they're not as fast as a semi-auto, require a bit more practice to really work smoothly, reload slower (by hand into the tube mag), and they don't hold as much ammo.

One of my next purchases will be a Marlin lever-action rifle. Man those stainless 1895's sure do look pretty. Although, I'm pretty sure .45-70 Gov't. isn't exactly what you're looking for in the recoil department. Though it would certainly put a "bad guy" down quickly.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Marlin 1895 GBL. Six plus one rounds of .45/70. 300 grain JHP loads for bad guys, 405 grain lead for angry critters. Great sights and scope mounts available through XS Sights and it looks just like a cowboy gun. Great fun to shoot, too.

 

[eye5600]

BTW, there are some interesting comments by Glen Cunningham on ammo choice for a .357 carbine here: clicky.

He likes the idea of the new Ruger 77/357.

 

[JFrame]

BTW, there are some interesting comments by Glen Cunningham on ammo choice for a .357 carbine here: clicky.

He likes the idea of the new Ruger 77/357.

Thanks for the link -- interesting point about lighter .357's disintegrating on impact. I'd heard that from some other shooters, which is why I opt to keep 180-grain .357 cartridges ready to go with my Winchester Trapper.

I keep going back and forth on the Ruger 77/357 -- want one minute, don't care the next, really REALLY want the next, and on and on.

We'll see which way the pendulum is swinging when they become available...


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[Jason_W]

I know from experience that basic Remington JSP 125 grain rounds will break 2k fps at the muzzle of an 18" barrel and in ballistic wax (which is significantly harder on bullets than gel) they retain just about 100% of their mass after impact at 50 yards making a magazine ad perfect mushroom shape.

 

[JFrame]

I know from experience that basic Remington JSP 125 grain rounds will break 2k fps at the muzzle of an 18" barrel and in ballistic wax (which is significantly harder on bullets than gel) they retain just about 100% of their mass after impact at 50 yards making a magazine ad perfect mushroom shape.

Interesting -- I wonder which 125-grain bullets are doing all the reported disintegrating...?


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