No, I think you guys are missing the boat on the ammo stash and weapons discovered. I think the real problem here is that he obviously decided to remodel his residence without the proper permits. :banghead: That doesn't make for good headlines on the evening news, so they have to put their own twist on it for the sake of viewers who are a lot more normal than us "mentally challenged" gun enthusiasts.
Norco, CA house fire; "Evil" ammo cache found
- Thread starter bass806
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Thin Black Line
Member
Here's a thought: How many real crimes went unreported in the local news?
Do homes raided for meth labs and child molesting have TV news crews
sitting out front questioning all the neighbors as they drive by?
Do homes raided for meth labs and child molesting have TV news crews
sitting out front questioning all the neighbors as they drive by?
Dorryn
Member
My friends and family consider me "unbalanced" and "deranged" for having OVER 1400 ROUNDS of ammunition "stockpiled". Alert the media!
The ATF better haul me away, because im obviously and clearly psychotic.
(Psychotically depressed that I dont have more.)
What's wrong with a tunnel? A tunnel is a perfectly practical and ideal solution to a lot of problems. A cinderblock or 2x4-lined tunnel surrounded by a foot or three of dirt would go a LONG way to absorbing any shrapnel from an ammunition cook-off in case there was a fire. Hell, if his ammo stockpile had been down there, it would have been safer than in the house. Clearly, the only problem with this guy is that he didnt conceal the tunnel well enough.
The ATF better haul me away, because im obviously and clearly psychotic.
(Psychotically depressed that I dont have more.)
What's wrong with a tunnel? A tunnel is a perfectly practical and ideal solution to a lot of problems. A cinderblock or 2x4-lined tunnel surrounded by a foot or three of dirt would go a LONG way to absorbing any shrapnel from an ammunition cook-off in case there was a fire. Hell, if his ammo stockpile had been down there, it would have been safer than in the house. Clearly, the only problem with this guy is that he didnt conceal the tunnel well enough.
PennsyPlinker
Member
It is so obvious to see why this guy is a danger to society! Why, at any moment he could have decided to stuff his million bullets into his pants pockets, load his hundred guns into the car, and driven around the neighborhood shooting up the entire city! Why, with a million bullets in his pockets and a hundred rifles in the back seat, all loaded, he would have been unstoppable! 
You know what? It is his money, it is his property, and people who hoard things are very common. What if the news "discovered" a million beanie babies in an underground tunnel? Or even worse, what if he collected cans of lead based paint?
You know what? It is his money, it is his property, and people who hoard things are very common. What if the news "discovered" a million beanie babies in an underground tunnel? Or even worse, what if he collected cans of lead based paint?
PennsyPlinker
Member
tneito2004 said:
Back in the day the Second Amendment was written, everyone who owned a gun of any sort had explosives in their house. What other options did they have other than black powder?
And if I had a stash like this guy had, and knew what the prevailing attitude in the community would be, I might have been a little reluctant to let the cops and media put my life on display too.
It's obvious that he wasn't thinking very clear or wasn't aware of the mind set of people today.. A clear thinking person would be know all the laws, would had the illegal stuff in a safe place away from his house.. He would have had all the black powder stored in a fire proof bunker away from the house even in a cheap cooler buried would make the stuff safer.,, If a person has 90,000. to spend on weapons, what's another 5 grand renting a storage locker someplace? he should have thought of things that could happen, fire, ect, just to make himself safe even if he didn't care about the neighbors.
Also he had to buy all the ammo someplace and i'll bet his name came up when LEO was going over sellers records.
Also he had to buy all the ammo someplace and i'll bet his name came up when LEO was going over sellers records.
Lamb of Gun
Member
Well I feel stupid. I had no idea machine guns required specific machine gun ammo!
grendelbane
Member
Sellers are not required to record the names of ammunition buyers in free states. Are they in California?
Also, no seller should allow any one to look at their records without a warrant.
Privacy is still important. Strange how people forget that.
BigFatKen
Member
Clearly the reporter checked the headstamp or saw that the primer was swaged or cemented in some manner into the primer pocket to prevent the primers from rattling out in auto fire mode.
Now, that's one sharp reporter.
tnieto2004
Member
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- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
Wow I really stirred up the hornets nets on this one!
As for the people glorifying this man for practicing his rights .. No one has yet to show me where it is alright for us to harbor explosives .. The fact is that we don’t have the right to do so.. In case you can’t tell, I never said anything about the ammo or guns .. In that sense I am jealous of the guy .. I wish my collection looked like that .. The fact is the man was alone in a burning house with EXPLOSIVES (as far as we know.. I’m not going to speculate on the validity of the news) and had to be forcefully removed after a neighbor called the cops .. The man was not in the right state of mind and should undoubtedly be evaluated .. The tunnels under his house is a little much in my opinion but I am not sure if that can be considered illegal (They for sure jeopardize the stability of the house) .. He was breaking the law no matter how you stretch it .. He should get all his guns and ammo back, there is no argument on that.. Calm down guys! I am far from anti but I do understand what sets us apart from many countries.. There must be SOME type of regulation (no I didn’t say gun regulation.. Calm down) on the well-being of individuals ..
THESE ARE MY OPINIONS GUYS .. NOTHING MORE-NOTHING LESS
P.S Whoever it was comparing explosives to gas heating, I don’t feel I need to even address that comment. I think anyone with any sense can see the difference
Conju- Why don’t you carry grenade’s then .. You answered your own question .. “Able-bodied” is the key ..
As for the people glorifying this man for practicing his rights .. No one has yet to show me where it is alright for us to harbor explosives .. The fact is that we don’t have the right to do so.. In case you can’t tell, I never said anything about the ammo or guns .. In that sense I am jealous of the guy .. I wish my collection looked like that .. The fact is the man was alone in a burning house with EXPLOSIVES (as far as we know.. I’m not going to speculate on the validity of the news) and had to be forcefully removed after a neighbor called the cops .. The man was not in the right state of mind and should undoubtedly be evaluated .. The tunnels under his house is a little much in my opinion but I am not sure if that can be considered illegal (They for sure jeopardize the stability of the house) .. He was breaking the law no matter how you stretch it .. He should get all his guns and ammo back, there is no argument on that.. Calm down guys! I am far from anti but I do understand what sets us apart from many countries.. There must be SOME type of regulation (no I didn’t say gun regulation.. Calm down) on the well-being of individuals ..
THESE ARE MY OPINIONS GUYS .. NOTHING MORE-NOTHING LESS
P.S Whoever it was comparing explosives to gas heating, I don’t feel I need to even address that comment. I think anyone with any sense can see the difference
Conju- Why don’t you carry grenade’s then
.. You answered your own question .. “Able-bodied” is the key ..Professor K
Member
No, it's not really a huge difference. In like 1997, someone on my street was building a house, and they used propane heat. Right when it was built, it exploded, the whole house was gone, just debri left, and my grandpa told me he could hear it at 6AM when it exploded, and it cracked other neighbor's windows.
PennsyPlinker
Member
tnieto said:
Did you even read what I wrote in my previous post? Black powder is an explosive. Other than the generic term "explosives" used by the expert reporter, there is no qualification of this term, so why would we assume anything other than black powder. Harbor? You mean possess, or own? Do you drive a car, own or operate a power lawn mower, chain saw, weed trimmer, etc? Why then sir, you are harboring one of the most powerful explosives we can obtain - gasoline.
tnieto said:
Perhaps you should get some more info and then address it. Last year, i.e. just a few months ago, either four or five houses in the city of Allentown PA were destroyed by an improperly trained gas meter man when he screwed up installing a meter. Thankfully no one was killed. But hey, these people were not just harboring an explosive, they were using it every day! How wicked of them! Shouldn't they be licensed, controlled, inspected, perhaps carted off to the looney bin?
Did you ever lose your house to fire, or come close? When I lived in the city, I watched four houses next to mine burn for over five hours while the fire company tried to control it. A lot of people weren't in their right minds during the event. Two years later the two houses on the other side of mine burned. Again, I watched a lot of very upset people who were normal every other day of the week. Heck, we weren't doing real well either time, wondering if our place was going to go up too.
I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but these statements of yours need some re-examination.
tnieto2004
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
PennsyPlinker
All that writing and not a single valid argument.. Using gasoline for tools and automobiles compared to building explosive devices.. Sorry but nothing you said is really relevant in this circumstance.. BUT if I were to for some reason take your arguments into consideration.. I would probably be concerned if my neighbor has his house (backyard, garage, ect) filled with excessive gasoline.. In your way of thinking.. your neighbor could fill up his pool with gasoline and it would be his right as an American? I don’t think you would like that too much .. Thanks for your input though ..
All that writing and not a single valid argument.. Using gasoline for tools and automobiles compared to building explosive devices.. Sorry but nothing you said is really relevant in this circumstance.. BUT if I were to for some reason take your arguments into consideration.. I would probably be concerned if my neighbor has his house (backyard, garage, ect) filled with excessive gasoline.. In your way of thinking.. your neighbor could fill up his pool with gasoline and it would be his right as an American? I don’t think you would like that too much .. Thanks for your input though ..
everybody I've talked to thinks the tunnel thing is weird.
Personally, I think it's different, but I gotta admit, I would LOVE to have a tunnel underground to go somewhere in my house. Like maybe a tunnel to the garage or something.
How cool would that be?
I have no idea what the guy intended to do with the tunnel, maybe he was going to build an underground safe-room to store his stuff (perhaps for the very reason that it was flammable and/or explosive.
Who knows. One day I might be willing to build a tunnel to an underground safe to store my valuables. Couple that with a nice hidden door, and you've got a nice secure addition to your house. Too bad you shouldn't tell your friends or it ruins the security of it.
I guess it's tough to do that because on one-hand it's quite a job, but on the other hand if you have a contractor do it, you've got plans that are publicly accessible (security risk I suppose). You would unfortunately have to break code to get the max security out of something like that. Kind of a bad situation to be in I guess.
Personally, I think it's different, but I gotta admit, I would LOVE to have a tunnel underground to go somewhere in my house. Like maybe a tunnel to the garage or something.
How cool would that be?
I have no idea what the guy intended to do with the tunnel, maybe he was going to build an underground safe-room to store his stuff (perhaps for the very reason that it was flammable and/or explosive.
Who knows. One day I might be willing to build a tunnel to an underground safe to store my valuables. Couple that with a nice hidden door, and you've got a nice secure addition to your house. Too bad you shouldn't tell your friends or it ruins the security of it.
I guess it's tough to do that because on one-hand it's quite a job, but on the other hand if you have a contractor do it, you've got plans that are publicly accessible (security risk I suppose). You would unfortunately have to break code to get the max security out of something like that. Kind of a bad situation to be in I guess.
Oh heck people do not all believe and react the same. I have a family memeber whose runs the family farm he inherited from by dad his gradfather. Yeah we are of the old school in that my Dad worked his butt off to do what husbands and fathers are supposed to do. Provide and protect their family. Not live off the gov.com. The land we have was homesteaded way back when and it will be a cold day in you know where if someone tries to take it away. There are many people around who still believe in private property and have honor and respect and expect the same. They are also not so PC or soft to think life is easy or just for fun.
Well one of the chicken houses caught one fire. The local rural fire dept showed up. Everyone knows everyone. The firefighters refused to go inside the house and were just pouring water on the outside while my nephew had already been inside and KNEW what the problem was. He was angry and took the hose and went inside and put out the fire. Well the good ole boys in the fire dept were not happy and called the police. Who did nothing. The chicken house was saved. Now is some places my nephew would be considedered a NUT and in need of Psychiatric evaluation. I would not have done what he did but I have been more indoctrinated that he has. Some men still have honor and pride and believe in saving what has been lovingly handed to them over generations of hard work. Not all men are metro some are still real old fashioned out of wack with the wussy world. Those are the kind I like.
Well one of the chicken houses caught one fire. The local rural fire dept showed up. Everyone knows everyone. The firefighters refused to go inside the house and were just pouring water on the outside while my nephew had already been inside and KNEW what the problem was. He was angry and took the hose and went inside and put out the fire. Well the good ole boys in the fire dept were not happy and called the police. Who did nothing. The chicken house was saved. Now is some places my nephew would be considedered a NUT and in need of Psychiatric evaluation. I would not have done what he did but I have been more indoctrinated that he has. Some men still have honor and pride and believe in saving what has been lovingly handed to them over generations of hard work. Not all men are metro some are still real old fashioned out of wack with the wussy world. Those are the kind I like.
PennsyPlinker
Member
tnieto2004 said:
So, we've gone from a reporter saying explosives, to him actually having explosives, to now he was building explosive devices?
Do you have a special source of info none of the rest of us have? Explosives are explosive, regardless of their use.I'm done, there is nothing more that is going to be constructive here.
tnieto2004
Member
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- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
HAHA .. I got a kick out of this one.. Another personal attack that wont phase me .. Name calling on a discussion forum is a bit uncalled for.. If you can not talk as an adult .. why even come here? I find it sad when people have to resort to this kind of stuff.. I don't believe the forum was intended for that ..
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I wish I had a tunnel
tnieto2004
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
I can get fined for having a boat in my driveway too long .. I wonder what the fine would be for building a underground tunnel??
Cosmoline
Member
He should be arrested for having more guns than me, and failing to shoot them enough
From the local paper
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_webammo.1.3b74c8f.html
NORCO - Neighbors who lived alongside him for years say they never saw Thomas McKiernan roll up the garage door of his Norco home.
Now they know why.
On Friday, authorities found more than 125 rifles and handguns, about a million rounds of ammunition and 60 pounds of gunpowder stockpiled in McKiernan's home on the 1800 block of Pali Drive -- enough to level several houses in the quiet Norco neighborhood under the wrong circumstances. They also discovered a tunnel beneath the garage.
The cache was found after a fire Thursday.
As Riverside County sheriff's investigators uncovered the arsenal, along with reserves of food and water, they began to develop a profile of the 62-year-old retired machinist, who was identified as the home's owner by neighbors and property records.
"We're possibly dealing with a survivalist," said Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez, a Riverside County Sheriff's Department spokesman.
McKiernan, who, officials said, punched and kicked rescue workers to get into the burning house, is being held for a mental evaluation, Gutierrez said. McKiernan has not been arrested.
Police evacuated the entire neighborhood Thursday as firefighters worked to put out the blaze amid bursting rounds of live ammunition.
Fire crews discovered an eight-foot deep tunnel 30 feet from the middle of the garage to a spot beneath the main house. Local and federal officers pulled three barrels out of the tunnel using hooks and poles, said Norco Fire Department Battalion Chief Frank deBoer. They contained rice, water and cooking oil.
Investigators worked into the evening Friday to locate and remove weapons found in the kitchen, living room and bedrooms. Two locked safes, reinforced with chains, had yet to be opened, he said.
It will take days for deputies and agents with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to catalog or destroy the guns and ammunition, Gutierrez said. It could be days before officials decide whether to charge McKiernan.
The only illegal items investigators have identified so far are five assault rifles, several high-capacity magazines and the 60 pounds of gunpowder. It is illegal to possess more than one pound of gunpowder, Gutierrez said.
The cause of the fire is still unknown. Authorities condemned the house because of the tunnel.
On Friday, two-thirds of the driveway leading to McKiernan's modest, shingle-roofed home was filled with ordnance. Cardboard boxes and green metal, military-style containers of ammunition were stacked next to canisters and cookie tins packed with gunpowder.
The ammunition ranged from .22 caliber bullets for small arms to .30 caliber rounds used in high-powered military rifles.
It's not uncommon for collectors to have dozens of guns, but storing that much ammunition is hazardous, said Mike Raahauge, who owns a shooting range in Corona.
"You can shoot 500 rounds of shotgun shells in a normal day of hunting or shooting," he said. "But a million rounds - holy Toledo! No normal person would have a million rounds of ammo in their house."
Neighborhood Reaction
Residents -- many of them retirees -- of the quiet neighborhood said they were thankful the damage wasn't worse.
Gary Eppler spotted the smoke and flames coming from McTiernan's roof. While his wife called 911, Eppler banged on his neighbor's door, but got no response.
The screen door was unlocked and he entered. McTiernan was lying on a couch in the living room, seemingly passed out, Eppler said. A small fire extinguisher was within reach.
Eppler helped a staggering McKiernan outside.
"But he went around back and said, 'I've got to save my house.' I don't know what he was doing around there."
According to police and neighbors, it took three deputies to restrain McKiernan, who rambled anxiously after his struggle with firefighters.
Neighbors describe McKiernan as a quiet, soft-spoken man who has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years with no trouble. They said he is a military veteran who sometimes went to a nearby shooting range for target practice with his son, who they said is in the military.
Pali Drive resident Sylvia Madruga described McKiernan as a nice, friendly man with a passion for discussing politics.
"He wasn't radical or anything like that," she said. "He had the same feelings that everyone had, he was tired of the liars in the government, and a government that doesn't listen to its people."
According to Madruga, raised his five children at the home. One of his sons was serving with the Marines in Afghanistan, Madruga said.
Madruga said McKiernan was a voracious reader of politically-themed novels and once borrowed a copy of a book based on the life of FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover.
"He was very well read," she said. "He felt that the government was not doing enough to protect and secure our borders."
Profile of a Survivalist
On the surface, McKiernan fits the profile of a survivalist, said James Houston, a criminologist and professor of criminology at Grand Valley State University in Michigan.
"Neighbors always describe them as quiet and helpful," said Houston. "It has to do with their strong sense of isolation."
They are working-class individuals who tend to share a distrust of the government and lean politically to the right, Houston said. Survivalists struggle to understand the cultural and technological changes happening today.
The idea that the government is not doing enough to protect them from crime or waves of illegal immigration is often why they stockpile weapons and supplies, he said.
Many survivalists are susceptible to the idea of "culture wars" played up in the media, Houston said.
"Some people to take it to heart, and they have guns to prepare themselves for when the time comes," Houston said.
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_webammo.1.3b74c8f.html
NORCO - Neighbors who lived alongside him for years say they never saw Thomas McKiernan roll up the garage door of his Norco home.
Now they know why.
On Friday, authorities found more than 125 rifles and handguns, about a million rounds of ammunition and 60 pounds of gunpowder stockpiled in McKiernan's home on the 1800 block of Pali Drive -- enough to level several houses in the quiet Norco neighborhood under the wrong circumstances. They also discovered a tunnel beneath the garage.
The cache was found after a fire Thursday.
As Riverside County sheriff's investigators uncovered the arsenal, along with reserves of food and water, they began to develop a profile of the 62-year-old retired machinist, who was identified as the home's owner by neighbors and property records.
"We're possibly dealing with a survivalist," said Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez, a Riverside County Sheriff's Department spokesman.
McKiernan, who, officials said, punched and kicked rescue workers to get into the burning house, is being held for a mental evaluation, Gutierrez said. McKiernan has not been arrested.
Police evacuated the entire neighborhood Thursday as firefighters worked to put out the blaze amid bursting rounds of live ammunition.
Fire crews discovered an eight-foot deep tunnel 30 feet from the middle of the garage to a spot beneath the main house. Local and federal officers pulled three barrels out of the tunnel using hooks and poles, said Norco Fire Department Battalion Chief Frank deBoer. They contained rice, water and cooking oil.
Investigators worked into the evening Friday to locate and remove weapons found in the kitchen, living room and bedrooms. Two locked safes, reinforced with chains, had yet to be opened, he said.
It will take days for deputies and agents with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to catalog or destroy the guns and ammunition, Gutierrez said. It could be days before officials decide whether to charge McKiernan.
The only illegal items investigators have identified so far are five assault rifles, several high-capacity magazines and the 60 pounds of gunpowder. It is illegal to possess more than one pound of gunpowder, Gutierrez said.
The cause of the fire is still unknown. Authorities condemned the house because of the tunnel.
On Friday, two-thirds of the driveway leading to McKiernan's modest, shingle-roofed home was filled with ordnance. Cardboard boxes and green metal, military-style containers of ammunition were stacked next to canisters and cookie tins packed with gunpowder.
The ammunition ranged from .22 caliber bullets for small arms to .30 caliber rounds used in high-powered military rifles.
It's not uncommon for collectors to have dozens of guns, but storing that much ammunition is hazardous, said Mike Raahauge, who owns a shooting range in Corona.
"You can shoot 500 rounds of shotgun shells in a normal day of hunting or shooting," he said. "But a million rounds - holy Toledo! No normal person would have a million rounds of ammo in their house."
Neighborhood Reaction
Residents -- many of them retirees -- of the quiet neighborhood said they were thankful the damage wasn't worse.
Gary Eppler spotted the smoke and flames coming from McTiernan's roof. While his wife called 911, Eppler banged on his neighbor's door, but got no response.
The screen door was unlocked and he entered. McTiernan was lying on a couch in the living room, seemingly passed out, Eppler said. A small fire extinguisher was within reach.
Eppler helped a staggering McKiernan outside.
"But he went around back and said, 'I've got to save my house.' I don't know what he was doing around there."
According to police and neighbors, it took three deputies to restrain McKiernan, who rambled anxiously after his struggle with firefighters.
Neighbors describe McKiernan as a quiet, soft-spoken man who has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years with no trouble. They said he is a military veteran who sometimes went to a nearby shooting range for target practice with his son, who they said is in the military.
Pali Drive resident Sylvia Madruga described McKiernan as a nice, friendly man with a passion for discussing politics.
"He wasn't radical or anything like that," she said. "He had the same feelings that everyone had, he was tired of the liars in the government, and a government that doesn't listen to its people."
According to Madruga, raised his five children at the home. One of his sons was serving with the Marines in Afghanistan, Madruga said.
Madruga said McKiernan was a voracious reader of politically-themed novels and once borrowed a copy of a book based on the life of FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover.
"He was very well read," she said. "He felt that the government was not doing enough to protect and secure our borders."
Profile of a Survivalist
On the surface, McKiernan fits the profile of a survivalist, said James Houston, a criminologist and professor of criminology at Grand Valley State University in Michigan.
"Neighbors always describe them as quiet and helpful," said Houston. "It has to do with their strong sense of isolation."
They are working-class individuals who tend to share a distrust of the government and lean politically to the right, Houston said. Survivalists struggle to understand the cultural and technological changes happening today.
The idea that the government is not doing enough to protect them from crime or waves of illegal immigration is often why they stockpile weapons and supplies, he said.
Many survivalists are susceptible to the idea of "culture wars" played up in the media, Houston said.
"Some people to take it to heart, and they have guns to prepare themselves for when the time comes," Houston said.
Davo
Member
This happened not too far from my home. I can tell you that SOP for LEO's out here is to put a person on a 5150 psych hold to get them out of the equation for a few days. They often use this on people whom they cant press charges on. I had a LEO try to 5150 a perp last night, its what is done here. He will likley loose all his gun rights after this.
Another local paper
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_5347601
NORCO - A million-plus rounds of ammunition.
More than 125 guns.
Dozens of containers of ammunition powder.
Firefighters found - and heard - it all when they responded to flames coming from the attic of a one-story Norco house on Thursday.
Federal, county and local officials spent Friday cataloging the arms cache from the house in the 1800 block of Pali Drive.
A resident of the house - a man whose name police would not release because he wasn't arrested - is being held at a hospital on a 72-hour mental-health hold.
A search of property records listed Thomas and Sharon McKiernan as the current residents.
Underneath the property, a tunnel - with an opening 5 feet wide and 8 feet long - was discovered running 10 feet down, Riverside County Sheriff's Deputy Juan Zamora said.
Inside, Zamora said they found two containers filled with water and cooking oil.
Riverside County Sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez described the man as a "survivalist" based on the amount of weapons and canned food.
Among the arms, police found two illegal semiautomatic assault weapons, with five illegal weapons in all.
High-capacity magazines were part of the 1 million rounds recovered, Gutierrez said.
Zamora said any gunpowder amount over one pound must have a permit. Officials found 75 pounds of ammunition powder in various containers. It was unclear Friday if the man had a permit for the powder, police said.
Also unclear was why there was so much ammunition in the house.
On Friday, officials from the Norco Fire Department; Riverside County Sheriff's Department; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; Corona Fire Department; and California Department of Forestry were at the house, Gutierrez said.
The house was red-tagged and declared unsafe, ATF spokeswoman Susan K. Raichel said.
The massive cache was discovered after a fire at the house was reported about 3:35 p.m. Thursday. Norco Sheriff's and Jurupa Valley station deputies responded to help the Norco Fire Department.
"We know it's an attic fire above the kitchen," Norco Battalion Chief Ron Knueven said.
As he battled the blaze, Knueven said shells were exploding around him.
Neighbors gathered across the street to watch investigators on Friday afternoon.
Some described their neighbor as a quiet, friendly man who was a longtime homeowner.
"He was a really good neighbor. Real, real nice family," said Thomas Carranco, who lives across the street.
"We welcome him and support him," said neighbor Jennifer Bosch. "We don't look at him any different. We'll help him in any way we can."
One neighbor was upset by the amount of ammunition found, however.
"He could have blown the whole block up," said neighbor Frank Jackson.
"I was standing here when shells started going off," Jackson said. "I thought it was crackling with the fire."
Raichel said the man made his own bullets using a technique called reloading.
"It's legal to have the bullets," Raichel said. "It could be a hobby."
Raichel said an investigation is ongoing, but did speculate that the man might have made the bullets because ammunition is expensive.
The discovery comes almost a year after an Upland man was accused of illegally storing more than 1,500 guns in his house.
In that case, a judge recently ordered a psychological evaluation for Robert Ferro, who said he planned to use his massive weapons cache to overthrow Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.
Ferro will stand trial in July.
"I don't think the homeowner was going to that extreme," Raichel said, comparing the Norco man with Ferro. "I don't see it leading in that direction at all."
Guns and ammo at a glance
There is no limit on the number of legally licensed guns or the amount of ammunition a person can own in California.
A person can own up to 50 pounds of black powder without a license.
Anything more than 50 pounds of black powder requires a license from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Anything more than 50 pounds of black powder must be stored in an outdoor magazine.
Black powder should not be stored in one place. Powder should be stored in fire and weather-resistant containers.
Ammunition should be stored in locked, fireproof containers.
Guns should be stored unloaded, with a trigger-locking device in a locked gun case or safe.
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_5347601
NORCO - A million-plus rounds of ammunition.
More than 125 guns.
Dozens of containers of ammunition powder.
Firefighters found - and heard - it all when they responded to flames coming from the attic of a one-story Norco house on Thursday.
Federal, county and local officials spent Friday cataloging the arms cache from the house in the 1800 block of Pali Drive.
A resident of the house - a man whose name police would not release because he wasn't arrested - is being held at a hospital on a 72-hour mental-health hold.
A search of property records listed Thomas and Sharon McKiernan as the current residents.
Underneath the property, a tunnel - with an opening 5 feet wide and 8 feet long - was discovered running 10 feet down, Riverside County Sheriff's Deputy Juan Zamora said.
Inside, Zamora said they found two containers filled with water and cooking oil.
Riverside County Sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez described the man as a "survivalist" based on the amount of weapons and canned food.
Among the arms, police found two illegal semiautomatic assault weapons, with five illegal weapons in all.
High-capacity magazines were part of the 1 million rounds recovered, Gutierrez said.
Zamora said any gunpowder amount over one pound must have a permit. Officials found 75 pounds of ammunition powder in various containers. It was unclear Friday if the man had a permit for the powder, police said.
Also unclear was why there was so much ammunition in the house.
On Friday, officials from the Norco Fire Department; Riverside County Sheriff's Department; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; Corona Fire Department; and California Department of Forestry were at the house, Gutierrez said.
The house was red-tagged and declared unsafe, ATF spokeswoman Susan K. Raichel said.
The massive cache was discovered after a fire at the house was reported about 3:35 p.m. Thursday. Norco Sheriff's and Jurupa Valley station deputies responded to help the Norco Fire Department.
"We know it's an attic fire above the kitchen," Norco Battalion Chief Ron Knueven said.
As he battled the blaze, Knueven said shells were exploding around him.
Neighbors gathered across the street to watch investigators on Friday afternoon.
Some described their neighbor as a quiet, friendly man who was a longtime homeowner.
"He was a really good neighbor. Real, real nice family," said Thomas Carranco, who lives across the street.
"We welcome him and support him," said neighbor Jennifer Bosch. "We don't look at him any different. We'll help him in any way we can."
One neighbor was upset by the amount of ammunition found, however.
"He could have blown the whole block up," said neighbor Frank Jackson.
"I was standing here when shells started going off," Jackson said. "I thought it was crackling with the fire."
Raichel said the man made his own bullets using a technique called reloading.
"It's legal to have the bullets," Raichel said. "It could be a hobby."
Raichel said an investigation is ongoing, but did speculate that the man might have made the bullets because ammunition is expensive.
The discovery comes almost a year after an Upland man was accused of illegally storing more than 1,500 guns in his house.
In that case, a judge recently ordered a psychological evaluation for Robert Ferro, who said he planned to use his massive weapons cache to overthrow Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.
Ferro will stand trial in July.
"I don't think the homeowner was going to that extreme," Raichel said, comparing the Norco man with Ferro. "I don't see it leading in that direction at all."
Guns and ammo at a glance
There is no limit on the number of legally licensed guns or the amount of ammunition a person can own in California.
A person can own up to 50 pounds of black powder without a license.
Anything more than 50 pounds of black powder requires a license from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Anything more than 50 pounds of black powder must be stored in an outdoor magazine.
Black powder should not be stored in one place. Powder should be stored in fire and weather-resistant containers.
Ammunition should be stored in locked, fireproof containers.
Guns should be stored unloaded, with a trigger-locking device in a locked gun case or safe.
Anybody run the numbers on this? I don't have any ammo cans handy but the what was piled in this guys driveway sure does not look like enough volume for a million rounds.
Second--- the tunnel-- I will remind everyone that before we all decided to die in a nuke attack, their was a civil defense concept called a bomb shelter which citizens were encouraged to build.
Would any here feel safe having a loaded weapon pointed at them all day long ,every day by another ? Well folks, it is not the cold war anymore but those nukes are still in their silos and are STILL targeted on us. And the Russians are busy upgrading their nuke capacity. Maybe this guy liked the idea of shelter..
Second--- the tunnel-- I will remind everyone that before we all decided to die in a nuke attack, their was a civil defense concept called a bomb shelter which citizens were encouraged to build.
Would any here feel safe having a loaded weapon pointed at them all day long ,every day by another ? Well folks, it is not the cold war anymore but those nukes are still in their silos and are STILL targeted on us. And the Russians are busy upgrading their nuke capacity. Maybe this guy liked the idea of shelter..
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