Nosey, Over Zealous, and Blind "Good Samaritan"

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Well I had my firearm removed from me by a law enforcement officer for the third time since having my CCW license yesterday. Kinda funny, and infuriating at the same time, as it all started with some "good simaritan", trying to play detective or cop, and seeing things that are not there.

Myself and a friend had just gotten off work, and decided to go do something afterwards. Not wanting to spend any money, we decide to go walk around Walmart for a while. She(white female) got to Walmart before me, and I(black male) pulled up next to her as the "good simaritan"("GS"), was exiting Walmart and heading to his vehicle. My female friend asked me to change shirts so that we didn't look like we were a couple and draw attention to our being together outside of work, because we had the exact same shirt on. So I look for a shirt in my vehicle as the "GS" sits in his truck, which is now running with the lights on, and him looking out rather suspiciously. I change my shirt being mindful not to expose my firearm, and we start into Walmart making a comments about hoping this suspicious guy not stealing something out of our cars.

We ramble through Walmart for about 30 minutes, I buy a car phone charger, and we decide to leave to find something else to do. Before we get to our vehicles, we see the officer sitting cat-a-corner from where we were parked. As we get to the vehicles, the officer drives over and gets out asking if the vehicles are ours, then asking for our ID's. We hand over all our info(both of my licenses and her one) and then the officer ask where my gun is, and then I point to 3:00 where it is. The officer dis arms me, while my friend(who knows I carry) is kinda freaked out not knowing what is going on. The female officer actually asks me "Why do you have a gun in Walmart":banghead:. Already slightly perturbed because I know this is all the "GS" fault, I respond with "why not" and the officer takes that to mean I have attitude so I shut up. Her back up arrives, and seeing the female officer has my gun asks" where did that come from" and I raise my hand as the female officer says "him". Male cop asks," Did you just have it in your pants?", and the female goes,"no he had it in a holster", and I chime in with ,"I wouldn't carry a Glock without a holster"!

After being assured that I would get my firearm back, her running my license, and the serial # to my gun, she finally comes out and says what the problem is. The "GS", called the police on me and my friend while giving them our license plate # and our descriptions, claiming we were "acting suspicious", and that he noticed me," pulling multiple bags of something out of my clothing"!!! The officer said the guy was adamant about seeing me performing this action!! All I did was look through my car for my shirt, and then change it.

The officer asked me,"what was this guy refering to when he said he saw you pulling stuff out of your pants". I said "I don't know what he thinks he saw, but I don't have anything illegal in my car.". She asks to look in the bag I have on the floor of the passenger side of my car and I say I really don't want her to, to which she responds,"I won't make you". With here attitude towards me much more friendly now, I decide to let her look. Before I get the bag, I tell her my 1911 is in the glove box, and she says "that is fine, just don't reach for it", to which I jokingly say "I don't feel like being shot today" and the male officer says," Me either!". I get the bag and tell her what is in it, and then she doesn't even want to look for herself. She asks me to pick up my jacket from the front seat, which I do, and there under it is the work shirt that I had change out of that my female friend is still wearing.

I think the shirt sealed the deal, as the officer immediatley seemed relieved or atleast at ease, and started over to her car to retrieve my weapon. She handed me my ID's back, then placed my firearm in the front seat of my car saying,"Sorry for the inconvenience, here is your gun, and here is the round that was in the chamber. I don't know what that guy was seeing, but again sorry for the inconvenience, you guys have a good night, and and please don't load your gun until I leave". As she makes it back to her patrol car I ask ,"am I good to reload my weapon", she says "yep, I'm outta here". I reload my firearm, reholster it, and finally get to seeing about my shaken co-worker.

Moral to the story, welll, I guess there isn't one, except maybe before you decide to be a "GS", and call the cops on people, be sure of what you see as not to waist law enforcements time...

Still 2 Many Choices!?

 

[Will5A1]

Sorry it happened - for what its worth I think you handled it well. God save us all from nosey, well-meaning busybodies.

 

[Cowboybootnut]

Still 2 Many Choices!?,

I know it is frustrating what you went through. I think you went above and beyond the correct way to handle it. I am glad it didn't escalate.

However, crime does happen at Wal Mart parking lots, and other parking lots, and there are GSs waiting in their cars for their spouses to return from shopping, looking around, looking for something to do or something to happen (I do that myself). It is unusual to change shirts in a parking lot (it does happen), and that probably set off the GS imagination. The GS probably went home telling everyone he stopped a crime in Wal Mart's.

Yes, the moral is right, think before you call. But sometimes you have to err on the side of safety too.

 

[Kali Endgame]

Sounds like you got pwned by racial profiling. That sucks, man. With all the info you provided, it should have cleared up faster. GS have their places, but need to think before they leap.

 

[psyopspec]

The way the officers responded seemed reasonable enough - not pressing for the search after you initially declined, acting a bit more friendly when they had more information. Asking you not to reload your firearm until they left was kind of an odd move, considering the 1911 you had on hand. Just the idea that they don't want to be around you when you load your gun but are happy to leave you in a parking lot full of unarmed folks just doesn't click right in my head. It's like saying 'I don't trust you to be armed around me even though I have a vest and a gun and I've checked that you aren't up to anything suspicious and you've cooperated.'

I suspect that the responding LEO's followed procedure as outlined by their department or by their academy in the interest of officer safety. It's not my intention to bash since their heads seemed to be in the right place, generally speaking. That last action just strikes me as a bit odd.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

The officers did their job, so did you. I know it is frustrating, but you handled it well, very THR.


take care
ST

 

[araiford]

Carrying while black?
I would not even call that guy a good samaritan. ******** is more appropo.

 

[jerkface11]

I'm shocked the cops even showed up on that call. I know they wouldn't have here.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

That sucks. At least the cops lightened up once they found out you were a good guy.
Too bad there can't be punishments for people who call the cops on the good guys because of their own predjudices or fear of weapons.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Report Grading

Once upon a time, I worked in an information center organized around a data filing and grading system evolved in the '50s.

I've never seen anything like it since.

We had a grading system for reports. We kept a file with the reports themselves, which were graded according to how accurate and complete they were. We kept a cross-indexed card file on the report's authors as well, which reflected the accuracy/completeness factor derived from the reports filed by that author.

When a new report came in which required follow-up and investigation, one of the items included in the investigation folder was the then-current grade associated with the report's author.

If the report came from a source graded "A1" it meant that the source had been found to be reliable, accurate, and complete over the span of reports he had filed. If, on the other hand, the reporter was fond of embellishing, reporting incompletely, outright lying, or simply reporting in ignorance of the facts (assumptions, for example), his grade might be as bad as "D4" and indicate that your investigation was going to include extra work.

After a while, the system accrued a weighting that allowed investigators to remain calm in the face of alarmist reporting because they could, literally, consider the source.

It takes a while for a system like that to develop a foundation of referential data so that report/source grading works to a net benefit. The reward, though, is substantial.

That, and it requires that the great majority of the players in the system participate and that there is some reporting standard.

I'm not sure I'd trust a system like that in the hands of today's government agencies but, properly used, it would greatly improve the confidence factor in responding to "alarming" reports.

 

[230RN]

Asking you not to reload your firearm until they left was kind of an odd move, considering the 1911 you had on hand. Just the idea that they don't want to be around you when you load your gun but are happy to leave you in a parking lot full of unarmed folks just doesn't click right in my head. It's like saying 'I don't trust you to be armed around me even though I have a vest and a gun and I've checked that you aren't up to anything suspicious and you've cooperated.'

I respectfully disagree. I think it a was perfectly reasonable request.

I have my own thoughts on its reasonableness, but I would like to see more discussion on this issue.

 

[Big Calhoun]

Outside of the inconvienance, it sounds as if it went well on all sides. Prime example of why playing it cool is better than actin a fool...rhyming not intended. In these days of 'terrorism', everyone and everything is suspect.

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Thnx for all the positive feed back...

And if it wasn't clear from the above semi-rant, I hold no grudge to the officers other than the lady cop getting snippy with me for carrying a gun in Walmart. There objective is the same as mine as I see it, to simply make it back home at the end of the day.

Reguarding the "don't load your weapo until I am gone" comment, that has always been the response I have gotten. Or atleast all 3 times I have been disarmed by an officer. I thought it was simply SOP. Then again, I also hear a lot of other THR members say that when they've been pulled over while carrying, the officer simply wants to know where the firearm(s), is(are), and don't bother handling them at all.

Still 2 Many Choices!?

 

[SomeKid]

I give yah credit, you were far nicer than I think I could be under such circumstances.

I know if they ever requested I wait till they were gone to reload (after being disarmed like a criminal) I would reload right in front of them to rub their noses in it.

 

[psyopspec]

Reguarding the "don't load your weapo until I am gone" comment, that has always been the response I have gotten. Or atleast all 3 times I have been disarmed by an officer. I thought it was simply SOP. Then again, I also hear a lot of other THR members say that when they've been pulled over while carrying, the officer simply wants to know where the firearm(s), is(are), and don't bother handling them at all.

I've been pulled over thrice while carrying. The first time, the gun was in the glove box and the officer had me step outside the vehicle for the duration of the stop. The second time it was the same officer and after I told him where it was the traffic stop proceeded according to routine. The third time I informed the cop and he called for backup then interrogated me about my gun ownership. There are as many ways to handle dealing with a legal CCWer as there are cops.

Still 2, if I were you I'd have likely played it the same. When I commented on the officer having you leave your gun unloaded, I was thinking of how I'd feel as a bystander. Think about it:

COP: Please don't load your gun until I leave.

Still 2: No problem.

Bystander: Wait a second officer! What's wrong with this guy that you don't trust him with a ready weapon of self-defense? And if you think he's a danger to you with a loaded gun, why should I have to deal with him? How come I can't tell him to wait till I'm cruising away to load back up too? Should he even have a loaded gun at all if he could be a threat to you, let alone the rest of the populace who mostly go unarmed?!
_____

That's the perspective I was considering it from. Again, I don't think the cops JBT's; rather I disagree with that particular move and think it a bit illogical.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What would we do without Good Samaritans?

A friend just told me this story -- She has a couple of shire horses, and with pasture running short last fall, asked an elderly neighbor if she could run her horses in his pasture. He agreed.

A GS called her and told her the horses were cold and had no barn to go into. After repeatedly explaining they don't live in barns and are well-adapted to living outdoors, she finally invited the GS to come and touch the horses (which the GS was afraid to do.) But finally the GS had to admit the horses didn't seem cold -- they seemed warm.

When snow came, my friend, because of her work schedule had to feed the horses after work -- when it was dark. The GS called Animal Control and complaned the horses were not being fed. When the Animal Control officer came out, my friend took him to the pasture and showed him the hay lying on the ground.

Then on a cold and wet day, the Animal Control officer called her, laughing so hard he could barely make himself understood. He told her there was another complaint, and policy required him to investigate all complaints. He asked her to meet him at the pasture.,

The sun had come out, and the horses were munching hay, with steam coming off their backs. The Animal Control officer explained, "That %$# fool called and said <snarf, snarf> that your horses <giggle, snarf> were <guffaw> on fire!"

 

[Mannlicher]

You did good bud. Having a meeting with cops is never a fun, stress free ordeal.

Some of the responses here though, are laughable.

 

[SomeKid]

Vern, I admit that sounds more like harassment, but either way, it burns me up with laughter!

 

[PRazz]

Some people are a little shook up after a stop or encounter with the Police. You may have been asked to wait till they left just in case there was an accidental discharge. Maybe just looking out for their own safety. They have no idea how much training or experience you have and don't want to find out the hard way. I'm probably wrong but just my observation.

Why are you carrying in Walmart?
Because Walmart allows me to do so.

 

[bogie]

Case of CWB?

 

[kungfuhippie]

I kind of laugh at things like this-not the situation, the GoodSam. was nosey and it resulted in a waste of everyone's time. The fact that were THRers thinking that Still2 was "racially profiled" when the only profiling I saw in his post was him saying that a white folk was the GS who called. Still2 was there with a white co-worker. The GS saw him acting suspiciously, digging around in his car, looking for a bag of some sort while parked next to another person that he was talking to (that how all the drug deals I saw happen out my attic window when I worked on "A" Street went down, except for the guy who would had a pot-drive-thru going)...I think that is what made GS call it in-not that he is a black man, or that he was a suspicious acting black man. Just that he was suspicious acting. My sister is a social worker and the only reason that many children are rescued from abusive parents (physical and sexual) is that a suspicious person calls it in and an authority investigates. They were doing their job to investigate and seemed to be rather nice about it.

And of course this is all IMHO.

 

[XLMiguel]

I was in a Giant food store in Falls Church, VA a couple years ago, carrying concealed with a VA CHP. I bent over to pickup something and my pistol was inadvertantly briefly exposed.

A middle-aged female Blissninney about 10' away saw it and screamed, "He's got a gun, somebody call the police!!!"

I pulled my shirt down and told her in no uncertain terms, that, yes, I have a gun, I also have a permit, and if she didn't quiet down and calm down now, I was going to call the police and have her arrested for harrassment. The look on her face was priceless - sheer and utter confusion. I just walked away.

 

[kungfuhippie]

XLMiguel,
Thanks, now I have to clean off my screen!!!!!

 

[JerryM]

Yes, you, handled it very well.
This is a difficult area. If one cannot report suspicious activity then we lose a valuable tool for crime prevention.

Think of the recent case with the Muslims and the airlines, and the GS who reported what he/she/they saw as suspicious. Now they are getting sued, I understand. Is it better to fear reporting and have an aircraft blown up? If you had been a criminal and someone got something stolen or hurt, that GS would have felt terrible.

Folks, whether we like it or not the current climate after 9/11 and the high crime rates are going to increase such incidents.

In many ways we/I hate racial profiling, but it is not unrealistic, and is inevitable. When BGs do bad things we are sure to lose some liberties and privacy. To think otherwise is just dreaming.

Again, you handled it as well as possible, and I applaud your restraint.

Best,
Jerry

 

[Ifishsum]

Here's a Good Samaritan story I saw today:

Bellingham, Wash.

Woman mistakes leg for gun near hospital

The woman suspected foul play was afoot. She was half right.

Police barricaded streets near a branch of St. Joseph Hospital in Bellingham after a woman called to report a man with an assault rifle walking into a medical office building. The suspected rifle turned out to be a prosthetic leg, Bellingham Deputy Police Chief David Doll said.

The medical building was locked down as police conducted a floor-by-floor search. When no suspect was found, police evacuated the building, and the woman spotted the office worker who had carried the prosthetic leg.

"Everyone did everything right," Doll said. "Like we hoped, it turned out to be a good situation today."

-- The Associated Press