Opinion Of Sigma?

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Ummm... I wasn't joking. CDNN has the CZ-75's.
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You may not be joking, but you've missed the boat as the only CZ handgun in CDNN catalog 2007-3 is the CZ 40B which at $290 is the same as Sigma run at gun shows here and its not got a 9mm option.

I happen to like the CZ40B very much because it'll do cocked and locked but its an oddball gun made-up from parts left over when a joint effort with Colt fell thru. I'd wager the Sigma is a better fit for more hands -- I find the CZ40B thumb safety is a bit too high and forward for me, but this doesn't matter at the range. Also it only comes with one 10 round mag, although you can make the Witness/BabyEagle 12-round mags work, whereas the Sigma .40 comes with 2 14-round mags (or four if the 2-free mag coupon deal is still in effect).

CDNN does list used "trade-ins" Sigmas in .40S&W for $230. Personally "bad" as the Sigma trigger is, I prefer it to DA/SA operation and was very happy with the way I was knocking down steel plates with it this morning.

No failures yet with my Sigma, as I said its easy to spend more and get less and the S&W warranty is definitely value added. I've been very happy with my Taurus guns and have never needed their warranty service so I can't comment on that, but the Millennium are sub-compacts, the 24/7 is a better comparison to the Sigma but they run $60-75 higher. I'd certainly endorse the Millennium as a very good inexpenive sub-compact.

In dry-fire I like the 24/7 trigger better than the XD or the Sigma, but so far it looks like I hit better with the XD or the Sigma than the 24/7 or Millennium. I've learned that "feel" is nice but only actually shooting tells the tale. FYI, I hit better with the CZ40B than all the above but then I'm a SA guy when you get right down to it.

--wally.
 
Thanks!

I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my question.

I DON"T think the trigger on my Sigma 9VE is all that bad. I know it's not as hard as my KT P11. I've read reports of 10-12 lb. pulls on Sigmas and I have to wonder if Smith changed it. Either that or I just got lucky and got a better one. I would guesstimate the pull on mine at 6 lbs., 7 at the very outside. I like the fact that there's no external safety lever, one less thing I have to keep track of in a deadly force encounter.

Thanks to all of you who have pointed out it's a good self defense gun at a good price, that's exactly what I bought it for. I also noted how many of you pointed out how reliable they are. I have read reviews of Sigmas in two different gun magazines and both stated they have earned a reputation for reliability. One writer who was reviewing the gun put 3,000 rounds through one in 2 days!

I'll be back with a range report.
 
It's Popular

Judging from the number of positive replies I'd say the Sigma series is more popular than the first poster thought!
 
I those who go into the deal with their eyes open and knowing full well the performance characteristics of this design are generally satisfied with them. They are bashed quite well on Glock dominated boards. Virtually all the complaints I see nowadays are about the trigger.
 
While the quality of the SIGMA has definitely improved (but, so has Taurus),
the 12 lb trigger pull still leaves a lot too be desired. Sales remain brisk, due
in part to our price matching Academy Sports ($299). I don't know how much
longer this will last, but for now things are on the up swing~! :scrutiny:;):D
 
I owned a S&W Sigma 9VE and although the ergonomic design of the pistol was excellent (it really fit my hand perfectly). The trigger was atrocious! Now I did my research beforehand and had heard that it had a bad trigger pull but when dry firing it in the store I foolishly thought to myself, "It's not that bad, I'll get used to it." I never did. I also read that after cycling several hundred rounds through it and/or dry firing that the trigger loosened up. It never did. It's a great looking gun, good weight, terrific ergonomics, good capacity magazine, extremely reliable (it went boom every time I was able to force back that trigger) but that trigger ruined an otherwise very lovable gun. After I would spend time with it at the range my finger would be sore, not my wrists but my finger.

As an aside, I thought it was Taurus that sued S&W not glock. Isn't the Sigma more a copy of their 24/7 than Glock or am I confusing myself again (Don't worry, it happens a lot).
 
I thought it was Taurus that sued S&W not glock. Isn't the Sigma more a copy of their 24/7 than Glock or am I confusing myself again (Don't worry, it happens a lot).
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You're confusing yourself again. :D Glock sued S&W. The Sigma was around for a long, long time before the 24/7. These two designs are sufficiently far apart as to be completely different.

I read that, when S&W was R&Ding their lock, Taurus offered to license their design to S&W, an offer that was refused.
 
It's Not That Bad

MY Sigma definetely does NOT have a 12 lb. trigger! I'm estimating it at more like 6 lbs. Maybe S&W has changed it.
 
If you really want my opinion, look back at The Firing Line archives.

Old subject.

Same crappy gun.

Can wait another paycheck to buy the "right" or a more reliable gun?

Glock, Sig, HK, Springfield, Ruger, Kimber, CZ, Beretta, EAA Witness, etc?

Smith 1911 is great and their revolvers are awesome and their other semi-auto's like the 1076 and 3913 and their Custom Shop guns are awesome.

Come on guys, what next?

5.jpg


Sorry but Sigma's are like Kia's or a Hyandia 's. Maybe fun to drive until someone sees you in them (like a hot chick).

Skopje-0010-b-1.jpg

:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
Sorry duncan & Nomad, but the Sigmas are a great buy. If they weren't reliable we'd have had tons of returns at the shop.

Sadly the days of the $200 used S&W, Colt, or Ruger revolver are becoming a memory - word got out on what a good buy they are and the prices have increased accordingly. I'll take a new $300 American made Sigma with a S&W lifetime warranty over a $200 or slightly under under Rossi any day.
 
ugaarguy:

If it's not a great gun, it's not a great buy.

The kind of occasional shooter that buys a $300 gun probably does not shoot more than a box a week through it. 2,000 rounds a year. Wow. I'm sure many of those guns don't even get a case of ammo through them a year. That's why you don't see issues.

Sure they work - so do the cheap pot metal guns made in S. California.

But no PDs I know of are carrying them.

Everyone is entitled to carry a cheap gun.

My life is worth at least a $500 gun.
 
Check this out:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108360&highlight=sigma

Here is what I told everyone in 2002 on TFL:

Many people really like the ergonomics and feel of the grip. I did. Liked the way my SW40V Sigma felt in my hand four years ago. Then I took it to the range and had about 20 failures to feed, cycle, and eject with one box of factory ammo and got a refund for my money. SW certified gunsmith couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.

Our corporate security force of more than 600 officers and investigators were issued SW Sigma's three years ago.

The Sigma's issued to our corporate secutity department have had numerous:

1. Failures of Slide To Lock Open After Last Shot
2. Jams
3. Misfeeds
4. Striker Spring Failures To Ignite Primer and Round
5. Multipe Spring Breakages
6. Magazine Failures To Feed
7. Slide Stoppages
8. Cracked Polymer Frames
9. Broken Trigger Springs
10. Broken Slide Lock Springs
11. Cracked Slides


And these men and women are ex-military police, former police officers/detectives, and ex-federal law enforcement agents from most of the agencies. A third are regular shooters.

They really hate those Sigma's and the contract one of security exec's entered into with SW. He was a big SW revolver fan and hasn't had to qualify in years but signed his people up to a multi-year Sigma contract.

After all of the above problems, SW replaced all 700 + Sigma's with "upgraded" units a year ago.

The problems have continued to this day.

The SW Sigma's are unreliable, poorly manufactured, inaccurate, and POS!

Only a fool would buy one to save some money!

SW can't give them away. In three of Wahsington State's largest gun shops, the dealers refuse to carry the Sigma's and will only special order them after a firm warning to the customer. They'll sell you SW revolvers and older semi-auto's like the 1076, 3913, 5906 and so on but not the SW polymer Sigma's! They call them rubber guns because they bounce back on the dealer.

Many of our security officers could not qualify with their issued Sigma's and others had to loan them other weapons to finish just qualifying.

And forget it if the officer practices weekly with that Sigma. They don't hold together. The armorer is always working on those guns.

I would only sell one to a person I KNOW I'll never ever see again and who I hate because they will be an enemy. And there is no such person.

If you like polymer, go with a Glock or an HK USP. Like metal, buy a Sig, HK, or a Kimber. If money is tight, grab a Ruger or a CZ. But there are numerous other guns that will serve you well consistently. Save that money.

Kind of funny but our security upper management and corporate executive protection carry Glocks and Sigs in 40Sw and 357 SIG. What does that tell you?

Look, maybe there are some good one's out there. I'm sure some people were happy with their 1972 ford Pinto's but I still wouldn't throw my money at it. Not even $100 bucks.

The Sigma's have no resale. Call you dealer and ask what is the trade in value. Might as well buy a Lorcin or a Davis next.
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700 bad guns?:mad:

Never heard that anywhere else in a decade?:scrutiny:
 
Well, I finally got around to buying my first Glock. It's a Model 19 police trade in. It came with Trijicon sights and looks new. Who ever had it must have shot it at qualification only because the damn thing is new. It wasn't refurbished either because the bore and the innards were still dirty from a significant amount of firing.

Comparing the trigger pull with the Sigma that I mentioned earlier in this thread, the weight seems to be identical while the pulls are very different. I do prefer the Glock trigger due to its feel, but the weight of the two is very similar. I will say that it appears that the Glock will work better with a heavier recoiling round like the .40 S&W than the Sigma due to its thicker grip.

I will still be keeping my SW40VE until it jams on good ammo or breaks, if it ever jams or breaks.
 
I've owned 4 of them. Local PD traded in their old guns. I got them cheap. Shot the heck out of them, ended up giving them to unarmed relatives.

Honestly, I think they work pretty well. The trigger pull on the new models is much better than the old ones. Reliability has been good.

My experience on the other side of the gun counter mirrors Ugaarguy.
 
duncan,

You're experience is with the Sigma V we're talking about the Sigma VE series which appear to have fixed the issues. Same as Taurus had a lot of problems with the Millenium pistols that appear to be fixed in the Millenium PRO series.

--wally.
 
I hear you all. The Sigma's may be different now. Maybe they can be fun range guns.

I just think and the vast majority of the law enforcement agencies out there, think and have selected several other polymer-framed guns over the Sigma's.

Heck, you can get a used EAA Witness in 9mm, 30SW, 10mm, or 45 ACp for under $400.

What about the Springfield Armory XD - even more feature and less expensive than a Glock?

Or you could with the usual suspects, Glocks, HK USPs, Sigs, even a Ruger. Now those things are tanks and reliable.

I htink there are many gun without a sorted past or checkered future. That's all.

I'd rather just save up for a slightly better quality gun.
 
I'll keep my Sigma........

My SW9VE has never had any kind of failure through about 2500 rounds. Zero, nada, none! Great ergonomics, very accurate and very dependable. Most criticism is from people that equate price with quality. Often that is right but sometimes it is not. In the case of the (my) Sigma it is not.
The trigger is what it is supposed to be for a SD pistol with no external safety. A good SD pistol, but not as much fun on the gun range. Just another very good SD tool.
Btw, practice trigger control on the Sigma and it will help you be a better shooter with a better range gun.
I have a CZ 75, a Walther, a Taurus, a Baby Desert Eagle, a S.A. 1911 Micro Compact, two S & W M & P's and several S & W revlovers that have better triggers but my cheap little SW9VE will hold it's own. If I sold my Sigma I couldn't replace it for what I could get for it anyway.;)
 
Had one, Traded it Real Quick.

I bought a new sigma in 2003, traded it the same year.
The only thing I didn't like was the trigger, it was the most "in-accurate" semi I ever owned.

Sigbear
 
I have one of the dreaded 1st generation Sigma's in 9mm purchased 7-8 years ago. It is by far the worst gun I have ever owned. While I can say that it has been very reliable (100%, in fact) and is more ergonomic than my Glock, I've also never been able to wring anything better than shotgun-sized goups out of it at 10 yards due to the atrocious trigger. Worse yet, it has a nasty habit of throwing spent casings back in my face. The gun actually went back to S&W twice for the ejection problems and both times, it came back with an invoice saying it was fixed, even though it never was.

I've tried to sell or trade it several times, most recently about a year and a half ago when I took it into a local gunshop asking 50 bucks for the thing. They wouldn't touch it.

Though I hear S&W has improved the Sigma somewhat over the years, I will absolutely never buy another one.
 
I picked up a Sigma 9VE two-tone from a guy who bought it and decided it wasn't to his liking. I basically paid him the same price he paid for it new, $299 + tax, and he threw in a free S&W 22A, a box of Gold Dots, and a couple boxes of Blazer Brass ammo. I figure, can't go wrong there. Sigma had maybe a hundred rounds through it or so.
Turns out, the Sigma ain't half bad.
Don't like the heavy trigger. But it's really no worse than a revolver on DA. It just takes getting used to.
The feel of it isn't as nice as an XD or Glock. But then I've never been partial to S&W's anyway.
It's a good put it in the toolbox for just in case kind of gun.
It goes bang. It hits where I point it. It took my JHP reloads without a complaint.
For the price, it's worth it.

As far as Hi-Points go, I keep hearing people who bash them over and over.
Truth is, for what they cost, they aren't bad either. Ergonomics suck. Ugly chunk of die cast slide. Bite your thumb if not careful. But they work, they are fairly accurate, and not everyone can afford a Sig now can they? Bashing something just for price is an eliteist attitude. I'd rather have guns in hands of people to defend themselves than not- a Hi-point .45 in your hand when you need it beats a Wilson .45 in the safe.
Every time.
 
I can easily live with the sigma trigger. If you don't try to stage it and learn a steady even pull nonstop it is not that bad. Are there better guns of course there is but hard to match at that price. I have better guns but I will not get rid of my sigma.
 
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